[raf1919]

So I currently have modius already with valhalla2 and was curious about magnius. I understand that Magnius performance on SE is not that great. But what about in "half" balanced if that's the right language.

If I connect Modius --> Magnius using XLR --> SE headphones: will I get the Balanced or Non balanced performance from the Magnius? Meaning should I get magnius or go for the hersey or asgard since I have no intention on changing to XLR headphones.

Only reason I'm considering this is to use 2 amps with my modious
Modius RCA Valhalla
Modius XLR Magnius

Thanks.

 

[theveterans]

I briefly listened to that combo at Schiitr. IMO, Modius in SE is not on par with even the Modi 3E. I truly suggest for you to go with Modi 3E, and if you must use Balanced with Modius, do not get the Valhalla 2 and go with any THX Balanced amps or Magnius instead

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Well, except that THX amps aren't balanced. They have XLR output connectors but that doesn't make them balanced.

Not the greatest explanation on earth but maybe better than nothing:

https://www.headphones.com/pages/balanced-headphones-guide

 

[buke9]

So I currently have modius already with valhalla2 and was curious about magnius. I understand that Magnius performance on SE is not that great. But what about in "half" balanced if that's the right language.

If I connect Modius --> Magnius using XLR --> SE headphones: will I get the Balanced or Non balanced performance from the Magnius? Meaning should I get magnius or go for the hersey or asgard since I have no intention on changing to XLR headphones.

Only reason I'm considering this is to use 2 amps with my modious
Modius RCA Valhalla
Modius XLR Magnius

Thanks.

I think I understand what you are asking. The single ended out of the Modius is 2v and balanced is 4v so does this make the single ended output balanced performance probably not as I’m sure using the 4pin xlr balanced out is going to be more powerful . Not for sure if there is a difference from balanced in and single ended in on the single ended output you might ask Schiit about that .

 

[ProtegeManiac]

So I currently have modius already with valhalla2 and was curious about magnius. I understand that Magnius performance on SE is not that great. But what about in "half" balanced if that's the right language.

If I connect Modius --> Magnius using XLR --> SE headphones

Just because "Fully balanced" has separate ground and negative throughout the entire analogue circuit doesn't mean there's such a thing as "half-balanced." There's just balanced connection for the line output, but then there's no "balanced/differential drive" going on there. For example: Violectrics can take a balanced line input, but they only have single ended amplifiers. This is for noise rejection when you're using the source and amp far from each other or when you have a lot of other equipment and cables near them both, ie it's all noise rejection and maintaining line voltage, and nothing to do with actual balanced drive.

The only way that can help is that balanced line signals tend to have higher voltage without adding noise, and can maintain that noise level over longer cable runs, but again the amplifier performance is just working off a louder but at minimum not noisier signal. Otherwise the amplifier's balanced drive circuit is not being utilized.

Think of it like having a Mazda where you use premium fuel so the ECU doesn't knock back the power output, but you're still not using the more powerful engine and AWD models much less driving an Audi with an even bigger engine (ie more power) paired to that AWD system.

If I connect Modius --> Magnius using XLR --> SE headphones: will I get the Balanced or Non balanced performance from the Magnius?

It will be running in regular SE, and on balanced circuits that can run SE, that means lower power. Which, going back to the car example, would be like buying the AWD Skyactive X Mazda or even an Audi, then putting 87 octane (or lower cetane US diesel) in it.

Meaning should I get magnius or go for the hersey or asgard since I have no intention on changing to XLR headphones.

Well if I'm not planning on driving fast (just city driving) nor driving out in the snow then I'd have no use for the extra horses and lb/ft of torque on a Mazda Skyactive X model let alone an Audi RS6 Avant. In that particular example it's a lot more like getting a Tesla Model S Plaid then manually disabling one of the electric engines because you don't need 750hp...which begs the question, why get the Plaid? Get the regular Model S or the Model 3.

I mean why would you even consider balanced drive amps if you'll only run single ended anyway? That's not even because balanced drive is the only way to go...I'm saying you can get better performance running a dedicated SE amp than running a balanced amp in SE mode. Don't need AWD but you actually want speed without somehow hobbling the second electric motor? Just get a Mustang (not the Mach-E, the actual Mustang).

I didn't want to bother with XLR cables either and I got an active ground SE amp. I'm completely happy with it. Just get the Asgard.

Only reason I'm considering this is to use 2 amps with my modious
Modius RCA Valhalla
Modius XLR Magnius

I can understand using two amps if one is an OTL for high impedance headphones then have one for low impedance headphones, but why would the second amp be a balanced amp that you can't fully utilize for delivering power from a balanced circuit into headphones wired to maximize that circuit?

And besides you can just get a Lyr and still get more power for high impedance heapdhones than what the Valhalla can give, and have enough power for planars with low sensitivity and low impedance. You can skip the Modius for that too since it only uses RCA.

 

[raf1919]

Just because "Fully balanced" has separate ground and negative throughout the entire analogue circuit doesn't mean there's such a thing as "half-balanced." There's just balanced connection for the line output, but then there's no "balanced/differential drive" going on there. For example: Violectrics can take a balanced line input, but they only have single ended amplifiers. This is for noise rejection when you're using the source and amp far from each other or when you have a lot of other equipment and cables near them both, ie it's all noise rejection and maintaining line voltage, and nothing to do with actual balanced drive.

The only way that can help is that balanced line signals tend to have higher voltage without adding noise, and can maintain that noise level over longer cable runs, but again the amplifier performance is just working off a louder but at minimum not noisier signal. Otherwise the amplifier's balanced drive circuit is not being utilized.

Think of it like having a Mazda where you use premium fuel so the ECU doesn't knock back the power output, but you're still not using the more powerful engine and AWD models much less driving an Audi with an even bigger engine (ie more power) paired to that AWD system.




It will be running in regular SE, and on balanced circuits that can run SE, that means lower power. Which, going back to the car example, would be like buying the AWD Skyactive X Mazda or even an Audi, then putting 87 octane (or lower cetane US diesel) in it.




Well if I'm not planning on driving fast (just city driving) nor driving out in the snow then I'd have no use for the extra horses and lb/ft of torque on a Mazda Skyactive X model let alone an Audi RS6 Avant. In that particular example it's a lot more like getting a Tesla Model S Plaid then manually disabling one of the electric engines because you don't need 750hp...which begs the question, why get the Plaid? Get the regular Model S or the Model 3.

I mean why would you even consider balanced drive amps if you'll only run single ended anyway? That's not even because balanced drive is the only way to go...I'm saying you can get better performance running a dedicated SE amp than running a balanced amp in SE mode. Don't need AWD but you actually want speed without somehow hobbling the second electric motor? Just get a Mustang (not the Mach-E, the actual Mustang).

I didn't want to bother with XLR cables either and I got an active ground SE amp. I'm completely happy with it. Just get the Asgard.




I can understand using two amps if one is an OTL for high impedance headphones then have one for low impedance headphones, but why would the second amp be a balanced amp that you can't fully utilize for delivering power from a balanced circuit into headphones wired to maximize that circuit?

And besides you can just get a Lyr and still get more power for high impedance heapdhones than what the Valhalla can give, and have enough power for planars with low sensitivity and low impedance. You can skip the Modius for that too since it only uses RCA.

Thanks for the detail response. I already have the Modius DAC and I got it at launch mainly for the form factor and unison usb (not balanced). Only reason I'm considering Magnius is to take advantage of the 2nd output on my DAC (xlr) so that I can have 1 DAC going to 2 AMPS. Not at same time but just to switch it up and try out new headphones.

Modius RCA to Valhalla2
Modius XLR to Magnius - Concern is from I what I read Magnius sounds great via balancec but poor on se and I'd be better off w/ Hersey/Asgard. Im curious if using SE headphones will put the Magnius in the poor bucket and it sounds like it will.

My 2nd Question is then. Can I use XLR to RCA cable? So then connect the XLR to like Hersey/Asgard?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Thanks for the detail response. I already have the Modius DAC and I got it at launch mainly for the form factor and unison usb (not balanced). Only reason I'm considering Magnius is to take advantage of the 2nd output on my DAC (xlr) so that I can have 1 DAC going to 2 AMPS. Not at same time but just to switch it up and try out new headphones.

I'd just use the SE output since...well...what's the point of using the XLR balanced output to feed a balanced signal to an amplifier when the balanced amplifier will not be used to drive a headphone wired for balanced operation. Regardless of how you got the Modius, getting a balanced amp just to use the XLR output only to use it only in SE more is basically paying for all the parts and complexity of a balanced amp, only to practically disable half of it...like buying Model S Plaid only to disable one engine.

You could get a single ended amplifier that takes balanced line inputs, and just to illustrate how much using an amp for what it's really for matters, a Violectric's output power wouldn't change regardless of what input you use...and it would still make more power in its normal SE output mode than most balanced amps when you're only using their SE mode, which is more of "oh no I rolled my chair over the XLR-terminated cable and broke all the copper! and all I have other than this is the stock cable! luckily this amp still has an SE output until my new balanced cable gets here!" or "nice this Schiit amp can drive my high sensitivity Grado in SE instead of running into problems and needing separate amp than what my HiFiMan uses!"

Modius RCA to Valhalla2
Modius XLR to Magnius - Concern is from I what I read Magnius sounds great via balancec but poor on se and I'd be better off w/ Hersey/Asgard.

For the combined price of the Valhalla2 and another amp I'd much rather just get a Lyr and drive everything from a low sensitivity, 35ohm planar to a 600ohm Beyer.

Im curious if using SE headphones will put the Magnius in the poor bucket and it sounds like it will.

Will it sound utterly terrible? On headphones with high enough sensitivity, no. On headphones with low sensitivity...why get a balanced amp if you don't want to mess around with XLR headphone cables only to not utilize what the amp is for ie more power on balanced drive.

My 2nd Question is then. Can I use XLR to RCA cable? So then connect the XLR to like Hersey/Asgard?

Upstream components with separate GND if not also Neg on each channel will have issues with downstream components that don't. Just maybe not as catastrophic as using a balanced headphone output to try to drive a headphone with shared GND. This just isn't common because...ya know...nobody buys a balanced DAC to use an SE amp.

Besides...if you get a headphone with removable cables the operation wouldn't be that much more difficult than hooking these up. If you really want to use two amps then configure a headphone to use only one of them. High impedance, relatively high sensitivity on the Valhalla. Low impedance, low sensitivity with a balanced cable on the Magnius. If you get high sensitivity, low impedance, then hook it up to the SE output on the Magnius.