[ldj325]

Need Help Selecting New HP Preferably $400 or Less

I have the Extreme Platinum and saw your profile while reading the Extreme thread. And I am assuming that with the Extreme I can drive just about anything.

I have the Senn HD580 with the 600 mods, and I love them. I'm probably a Sennheiser guy by natural inclination. I have had the 580 for years, so I just lucked into this.

I am looking at a new HP purchase, not out of dissatisfaction, but just thinking that I'd like a to have a slightly different "flavor" of HP for variety. I'd like to stay at about $400 or less.

I have thought of upgrading to the HD650 which might be fine as I like the Senn house sound. Still if the 650 is really close to the 580/600 then this might not be much difference from what I alredy have. With a good amp such as the Extreme Platinum would there be much difference between the 580/600 and the 650?

The ATH-W1000 came up as an option so I'd love to hear any compare/contrast with the 650/580/600.

Other HP I am investigating are the Beyerdynamic DT880, and DT990. I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks for any assistance.


Where I coming from/what I've heard:

My preference seems to be for something similar to the Senn house sound, but with some difference for variety. I like a warm sound, like a wide headstage (the Extreme helps here), and if possible would like a little more instrument/vocal isolation over the 580/600. The Senns are very smooth (good) but this seems to result in the music becoming a swirl of sound rather than having individual sound placement. But the sound is full, and for what its worth, the 580/600 rock just fine for me.

I have heard the AKG 501. While I liked the wide soundstage & "air", I wasn't impressed. I found them to have some sounds and textures so recessed (compared to 58/600) as to almost seem that they weren't be there. Also they are a little cool and uninvolving with not much bass for my taste. So the sound wasn't very full bodied in comparison to the 580/600. I suspect that I'm just not an AKG person. And they did pretty well with female vocalists.

I've also listened to much of the high end Grado line. The RS2 and RS1 had some interesting qualities, but were a little harsh to my ears. That harshness was even more pronounced running through all their lower end brothers. I could like Grados, but not the harshness. I one Grado I really liked was the GS-1000 as it seemed to have less of the harsh edge , but not for $1000.
No offense to Grado fans. These cans were in a store and might not have been broken in. But even new out of the box 580s appealed to me.

My primary source, and what I make purchasing decisions around is Vinyl, and secondarily digital via DAC as well as 4th gen iPod line out.

My preferred music is classic albums from the 60's -70's rock era (which can include folks as varied as Joni Mitchell, James Taylor and Jethro Tull to Beatles, Stones, Neil Young.)
After this is classical Bach, Mozart, -- chamber music more than symphonies.
Some melodic jazz.

 

[Uncle Erik]

I can think of a few you might be interested in. One obvious one is the AKG K-701. It's a little thicker and more full bodied compared to the K-501.

However, I think you might want to look at the Beyerdynamic DT880 which is bright like Grado, but not as harsh and more neutral. Resolution is excellent, and you'd enjoy hearing new detals in your music. Also around $400 is the Sony MDR-SA5000. The sound signature is similar to the DT880, but I need to put more hours on it to really form an opinion. So far, though, I really like it.

I have not heard the Audio Technica you mention, but a number of people here like them. Personally, I find the ATH-AD2000 very interesting. They're $480 at PriceJapan, but have gotten rave reviews here.

 

[ldj325]

Dear Uncle Erik,

Funny you should just mention the AD200, as I was just reading about them, thinking they looked very interesting. I have started a new list that includes the AD2000, AT-W5000, JVC HP-DX1000, GS-1000, and Darth Beyers.

As you may know most, of these list somewhere around the $1000 pricepoint.
As I have dropped a whole chunk of change in the past approx 2 months on getting set up so far, a $1000 HP seems out of the question for the moment.

But since my OP, I've been thinking that I may need to jump to that level in order to experience the SQ difference I am looking for. (But I still have some hope that the HD650 might be different enough to really represent a significant upgrade to the 580/600, as it is affordable. So other, feel free to jump in.)

But now you come in with this link that takes the AD2000 list price down from
$799 to $480, hummmm, within reach with a little stretching or a little more time. Is there anything special about how PriceJapan works? And do you have any approximation of how much shipping costs(/import duties?) would be to Southern California?

Thanks for this info and suggestion.

 

[ldj325]

I have had a chance today to listen to a friend's AKG501.
After one classical acoustic guitar record, I almost found them grating with the way the record surface noise sounded. Now even what I liked initially about their soundstaging is no longer appealing to me. The 701s would have to be a lot warmer than the 501 to appeal to me. This has only emphasized that I don't seem to be an AKG person.

I need some warmpth or richness in whater HP I next obtain.

 

[Davesrose]

Since you like the 580....why not the HD650? If you thought the Grados were harsh, you might have troubles with Beyers too. The HD650 offers more extension and are really good with classical and jazz. It does sound like you're more of a Senn person then an AKG (which always are lighter and more airy then Senns).

 

[ldj325]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Since you like the 580....why not the HD650? If you thought the Grados were harsh, you might have troubles with Beyers too. The HD650 offers more extension and are really good with classical and jazz. It does sound like you're more of a Senn person then an AKG (which always are lighter and more airy then Senns).

I suspect that I would like the HD650 just fine. The other day I "found" my old pair of HD25-SP, the cheap ones I use for a travel guitar set up. I recabled it using the stock 580 cable that got replaced by the 650 cable. Suddenly congestion that had been there, and very much disliked by me, was largely gone. I could hear the "house" Senn sound and could listen and enjoy even these "cheapie" Senns. That convinced me I was a Senn guy.

The only question for me has been if I would experience the 650s as different enough to give me some variety from the 580/600 modded that I have, and love. Its been described to me that the major difference is that the 650 would give me a deeper bass. And the bass on the 580/600, especially with my SP Extreme Platinum, is just fine.

I have been hoping that the Senns aren't the only warm, lush, sweet sounding, and still retaining detail and accuracy HP out there. And that I can have some variety, just like I sometimes order strawberry rather than vanilla ice cream.

Originally I had hoped that the AKG501 or 701 would be my alternate flavor. The problem is that I found that I just don't like the sound of the 501s and assume that the 701s will share a similar house sound.

Do you find that there is a lot of difference between the 650s and the 580/600 modded?

 

[kramer5150]

It all depends on what youre after. Its hard to tell from your post whether A) you just want "more sennheiser", I.E. a more refined Senn-sound -OR- B) you want to deviate from the senn sound.

For A, clearly the HD650 is the way to go.
For B, the K701 comes to mind, as does the SA5k (if you want uber-speed/resolution). Consider the DT880 (older model) if you want detail and a little treble boost.

Ive never heard any of the above on that amp though, so keep in mind that I'm merely speculating how these cans will sound on that amp, based on my sessions with each.

 

[ldj325]

Quote:
"It all depends on what youre after. Its hard to tell from your post whether A) you just want "more sennheiser", I.E. a more refined Senn-sound -OR- B) you want to deviate from the senn sound."

I am not being deliberately vague. I clearly like the Senn house sound, but am concerned that the 650 would be too similar to what I have. If so, why spend the money to get a very small variation in sound. So in that sense I want some deviation from the Senn sound, but purely for variety and not out of dissatifaction.

I thought "on paper" that the AKG 701, would be a good choise. But in listening to the 501 (and thinking that these would be somewhat reflective of the AKG house sound) I found myself progressively disliking them. For me they aren't harsh like Grados, but to me they're thin sounding and lifeless. Nor did I find them particularly detailed in comparison the my 580/600. Its hard to imagine anything sounding anywhere close to 501 as being something I'd be happy with.

So I am hoping that I will be able to find something that has some similarity to the Senn sound in terms of warmpth, richness--maybe smoothness, but that also have some difference for variety.

I have limited listening experience to quality HP. But in my demo of most of the Grados they sounded too harsh to my ears. But by the time I got to the GS-1000 that harshness was gone, the sound had a richer, fuller quality that wasn't overly bright. They sounded good to me. If I could get the GS-1000 for $500, I'd do it and this thread would not exist. Another example is that I heard the Shure E500 and really liked them on a 5 minute demo. So I know I can be happy with something that is not a Senn.

Maybe all the other cans that can be had for around $400, Darth Beyers, Audio-Technica, Sony are a lot brighter and closer to the AKGs, with the Senns standing all alone on the other side. I am considering that I may need to wait until I can jump to the $1000 pricepoint if I can't find something now around $400. Maybe I'm really a $1000 headphone guy (and the 580/600 is really a $1000 HP), but I hope not.

 

[Snacks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldj325 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have limited listening experience to quality HP. But in my demo of most of the Grados they sounded too harsh to my ears. But by the time I got to the GS-1000 that harshness was gone, the sound had a richer, fuller quality that wasn't overly bright. They sounded good to me. If I could get the GS-1000 for $500, I'd do it and this thread would not exist. Another example is that I heard the Shure E500 and really liked them on a 5 minute demo. So I know I can be happy with something that is not a Senn. Maybe all the other cans that can be had for around $400, Darth Beyers, Audio-Technica, Sony are a lot brighter and closer to the AKGs, with the Senns standing all alone on the other side. I am considering that I may need to wait until I can jump to the $1000 pricepoint if I can't find something now around $400. Maybe I'm really a $1000 headphone guy (and the 580/600 is really a $1000 HP), but I hope not.

So far, it sounds like you are a Grado GS-1000 or HD 650 guy.
If you've found a sound that you like, IMO, do not settle for less.
GS-1000s come up for sale here on head-fi from time-to-time.
Wait and pounce at the right moment.
Do not let the price of admission be your determining or limiting factor.
If you need to save, then so be it.

 

[ldj325]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snacks /img/forum/go_quote.gif So far, it sounds like you are a Grado GS-1000 or HD 650 guy. If you've found a sound that you like, IMO, do not settle for less. GS-1000s come up for sale here on head-fi from time-to-time. Wait and pounce at the right moment. Do not let the price of admission be your determining or limiting factor. If you need to save, then so be it.

Thanks Snacks. I was just hoping that there was a less costly option that the GS-1000 that I could afford now. And I probably have a HD700 in my future, a year or so from now.

And for kramer5150, I realized that I left out some information. In my OP I was still considering the HD650 as I didn't know how much different it was than the 580/600. After the OP I got a PM where the person having owned both the 600 and 650 described the difference. I got that they were so close (some changes with the base) that I realized the 650 wouldn't be a very great change over what I already have.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldj325 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Need Help Selecting New HP Preferably $400 or Less I have the Extreme Platinum and saw your profile while reading the Extreme thread. And I am assuming that with the Extreme I can drive just about anything. I have the Senn HD580 with the 600 mods, and I love them. I'm probably a Sennheiser guy by natural inclination. I have had the 580 for years, so I just lucked into this. I am looking at a new HP purchase, not out of dissatisfaction, but just thinking that I'd like a to have a slightly different "flavor" of HP for variety. I'd like to stay at about $400 or less. I have thought of upgrading to the HD650 which might be fine as I like the Senn house sound. Still if the 650 is really close to the 580/600 then this might not be much difference from what I alredy have. With a good amp such as the Extreme Platinum would there be much difference between the 580/600 and the 650? The ATH-W1000 came up as an option so I'd love to hear any compare/contrast with the 650/580/600. Other HP I am investigating are the Beyerdynamic DT880, and DT990. I'm open to suggestions. Thanks for any assistance. Where I coming from/what I've heard: My preference seems to be for something similar to the Senn house sound, but with some difference for variety. I like a warm sound, like a wide headstage (the Extreme helps here), and if possible would like a little more instrument/vocal isolation over the 580/600. The Senns are very smooth (good) but this seems to result in the music becoming a swirl of sound rather than having individual sound placement. But the sound is full, and for what its worth, the 580/600 rock just fine for me. I have heard the AKG 501. While I liked the wide soundstage & "air", I wasn't impressed. I found them to have some sounds and textures so recessed (compared to 58/600) as to almost seem that they weren't be there. Also they are a little cool and uninvolving with not much bass for my taste. So the sound wasn't very full bodied in comparison to the 580/600. I suspect that I'm just not an AKG person. And they did pretty well with female vocalists. I've also listened to much of the high end Grado line. The RS2 and RS1 had some interesting qualities, but were a little harsh to my ears. That harshness was even more pronounced running through all their lower end brothers. I could like Grados, but not the harshness. I one Grado I really liked was the GS-1000 as it seemed to have less of the harsh edge , but not for $1000. No offense to Grado fans. These cans were in a store and might not have been broken in. But even new out of the box 580s appealed to me. My primary source, and what I make purchasing decisions around is Vinyl, and secondarily digital via DAC as well as 4th gen iPod line out. My preferred music is classic albums from the 60's -70's rock era (which can include folks as varied as Joni Mitchell, James Taylor and Jethro Tull to Beatles, Stones, Neil Young.) After this is classical Bach, Mozart, -- chamber music more than symphonies. Some melodic jazz.

AKG701
SA5000
880 or 990

I have the 650's, & the SA5000 presentation is totally different.. Brighter, better bass extention, less boomy.. It seems to be a love them or hate them can here though..

 

[boomana]

I also have the Extreme Platinum. It drives all my headphones beautifully, but like you, I favor the Sennheiser sound. I recently purchased the Ultrasone PROline 2500s, and although they still need some burn in time, I'd put them in the same league as the Senns, but with a completely different sound/feel. They are going to get a lot of listening time in my home. Check out the threads on this forum. They might be what you're looking for, and if not, I'm sure you could sell them quickly. You can get them for under $300 and have money left over for new music...win-win.

 

[Thelonious Monk]

save up for the GS-1000, seriously! you like them.. they'd be a really good contrast/variety paired with sennheisers. another option would be to pounce on the E500s. it's always nice to have hi-fi on-the-go

edit: 280 post milestone, as in HD280s!

 

[ldj325]

I do have funds that have been reserved for a high end universal IEM. I would have already pulled the trigger on the E500, except I got concerned about the toatal sound isolation and my intended use for when biking or rollerblading on a bikepath (roads are definately out). I read the the new Westone has only partial isolation, which might be safer if their SQ is still good.

I appreciate all the other suggestions coming in. When I get a chance I will do searches to see if I can get descriptions of the sound signitures.

What I've figured out so far is I am looking for a can that is warm, rich, full, smooth, with detail but not to the point of being analytical but not Senns (due to duplication with my 580/600) and not AKG 501 like (as having few of the above qualities + lifeless for me) and not having the harsh edge of most Grados (GS-1000 being the one Grado that wasn't harsh), and significantly less than $1000. Surely this describes some HP around $400. (And my range of "around $400" is expanding upward--but I'm trying to hold the line, honest.

My amp ended up coming in at about 3X my initial projected budget. So as you can see, I am a prime candidate for Head-fi. And is one reason I can't afford a $1000 HP right now (but will probably have one before I'm finished on Head-fi). And lets not even talk about my TT upgrade yet. I bet a lot of people share this this kind of history on Head-fi. Newbies, if you don't want to spend a lot more money than you had planned (at whatever your budget is) run, run, run right now. No kidding!

 

[boomana]

I'm telling ya:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=222364