Help needed : Hippo VB Foam mod + general questions about sibilance (dfkt, brendon, clieos please check this out)

[brendon]

^^ Great ! Thanks to you my theory is thrown right outside the window.

So age and hearing range is not really relevant for hearing sibilance.

 

[Pariah1]

I'm interested in these IEM's as well, and never have minded brightness too much, I prefer it actually over smooth or laid back or dark, etc.

I'm also interested in where people in their 30's (I'm 32) got the idea that their hearing is going? Isn't that way too young? I could see 40's and 50's, but 30's?!

I did find a little factoid: About half of all people over age 75 experience some sort of hearing loss (National Institute on Deafness and Other Communication Disorders). So that means, half of people, even over age 75, do NOT experience any hearing loss. I think it's quite an assumption, then, to think that normal hearing loss starts for everyone sometime in their 20's or 30's! For according to this, many people will die before they even experience any!

Maybe I'm totally wrong, I'd like to see more data on this issue.

 

[swanlee]

High freq hearing loss happens gradually over time for pretty much everyone. That is why teens can usually hear all the way up to 20KHZ while once you hit your mid 30's you lose anything above 16KHZ.


In reality it isn't really serious hearing loss, you aren't really effected by it unless you take hearing tests that show you can't hear above a certain freq. level.

It is not the same kind of hearing loss you get in your 60's or 70's

 

[Pariah1]

Hmmm so either the term "hearing loss" is ambiguous/arbitrary or there is a common myth that everyone's hearing lessens with age and yet somehow this doesn't mean there is actual hearing loss (which it is, of course, or else it wouldn't be diminishing!).

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just need to see some data showing that hearing loss occurs with age starting in the 20's. I haven't found any so far, only that hearing loss can/may occur with old age:

"Gradual hearing loss that occurs as you age (presbycusis) is common. According to the National Institutes of Health, an estimated one-third of Americans between the ages of 65 and 75 and close to one-half of those older than 75 have some degree of hearing loss."

Hearing loss - MayoClinic.com

Well, that only means that 1/2 of people over 75 have some degree of hearing loss, nothing more or less.

It seems genetics may be involved so personally I may be lucky. I know no one in my family who has ever had the need for a hearing aid. This includes, on my mother's side, a grandfather who died at age 67 and grandmother who died at 84, and on my father's side a grandfather who died at age 80 and a grandmother who is now unfortunately senile and 82. All of them I talked to on the phone/in person and they never had a problem hearing/understanding me (or anyone/anything else that I can recall). My mother is dead, but my father, now 64, seems to have no problem with hearing as well. In fact, I had him over today and tried that online test posted in this thread (which can hardly be scientific/trustworthy I might add), and he could hear (as could I) with either my speakers or Grado's and amp, everything at least over 19k.

I suppose I could ask my doctor and personally I'll only trust a professionally administered hearing test in a lab setting to determine my hearing abilities.

So anyway, what's up with these headphones?

Are they for someone who likes an analytical/bright presentation but also with more bass than, say, something like the RE0's?

 

[swanlee]

Presbycusis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Deterioration in hearing has been found to start very early, from about age 18 years. The ISO standard 7029 shows expected threshold changes due purely to age for carefully screened populations (i.e. excluding those with ear disease, noise exposure etc), based on a meta-analysis of published data (Robinson & Sutton 1979). Age affects high frequencies more than low, and men rather more than women. One early consequence is that even young adults lose the ability to hear very high frequency tones above 15 or 16kHz. Despite this age-related hearing loss may only become noticeable later in life. The effects of age can be exacerbated by exposure to environmental noise, whether at work or in leisure time (shooting, music, etc). This is Noise-induced hearing loss (NIHL) and is distinct from presbycusis.

Over time, the detection of high-pitched sounds becomes more difficult, and speech perception is affected, particularly of sibilants and fricatives. Both ears tend to be affected."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range#Dogs

Humans

In a human, sound waves funnel into the ear via the external ear canal and hit the eardrum (tympanic membrane). Consequently the compression and rarefaction of the wave set this thin membrane in motion, causing the inner ear bones (the ossicles; malleus, incus and stapes) to move. The number of sound pressure level vibrations (sonic waves) per second denotes the frequency. Infrasonic (below hearing), sonic (aural), and ultrasonic (above hearing) frequencies are measured in Hertz (Hz); one Hertz is one cycle wave (or singular pressure wave in audionics) per second. Specifically in humans, we have a maximum aural range of 12 Hz under ideal laboratory conditions[1] to 20,000 Hz in some individuals, but the range shrinks during our lifetime, usually beginning at around the age of 8 with the higher frequencies fading. Inaudible sound waves can be detected (felt) by humans via infrasonics through physical body vibration in the range of 4 to 16 Hz. There is a difference in sensitivity of hearing between the sexes, with women typically having a higher sensitivity to higher frequencies than men (Gotfrit 1995). The vibrations of the ossicular chain displace the basilar fluid in the cochlear, causing the hairs within it, called Stereocilia, to vibrate. Hairs line the cochlear from base to apex, and the part stimulated and the intensity of stimulation gives an indication of the nature of the sound. Information gathered from the hair cells is sent via the auditory nerve for processing in the brain.


So basically my age may make me less prone to have issues with the sibilant nature of the VB's especially out of the box before burn in.


You may like them at first if you want a bright IEM but with alot of bass, but the brightness will tame itself over time. Either way these are very good IEM's that more than compete with ones 2-3 times their price.

 

[Pariah1]

No offense, but wiki? No thanks.

I did look at it, but, in typical pseudo intellectual wiki style, no sources (except one not linked to) and grand over arching generalizations stated as fact with no references or qualifiers.

Thanks for the opinion on the VB's though, they seem to be a unique and under the radar little IEM I might really like.

I'm currently looking at about 10 other IEM's, but the VB's are on the short list, especially if they have powerful yet articulate and tight/taut bass. I'm not a huge basshead, but the only other headphones I listen to are my Grado 225i's which are not exactly bass heavy. So I'd like a nice contrast. I'd be using my IEM's mostly for rock/metal and some 80's, for exercise.

Also, while I like "bright", I don't mean piercing or that I turn up the treble beyond flat on anything, only that I don't like a "dark" or overly warm presentation. I'd say I'm more of a neutral leaning to bright fan.

 

[dfrost]

Hi, six decades guy here.

Finally had a chance to do the hearing test, and was (pleasantly) surprised that I heard tones as high as 14-15KHz using the NuForceNE-7Ms plugged into the iMac.

When I had my hearing tested for hearing aids several years ago, the audiologist revealed that my hearing was falling off "normal" at 2-4K. Notably, I eventually found the very expensive hearing aids rather marginal in effectiveness, and downright bothersome at times (quiet restaurants, for example).

 

[esanthosh]

Unless the Jaben India distributor secretly burned VB for 100 hours before sending me, I'd put the variance in reaction to VB to a good batch, bad batch thing.

Earlier in this thread, I observed that Hippo Epic-Sparkles were "harsh" and very sibilant out of the box. After 75 hours of burn-in, the harshness has reduced, not vanished. Sibilance is still present. They are the first ever IEM I burned-in outside of my ear because I could not listen to them for more than 5 minutes on tracks which had vocal sibilance or was bright.

But, VB right out of the box is sibilant, not harsh. I can "forgive" or bear the sibilance because of the clarity, sound stage and bass. My views mostly match with daouda's post burn-in observations (stresses vocal sibilance present in tracks more than other IEMs) and dfrost's observations. Before opening the box, I thought I'd need to burn it in for 150 - 200 hours before even attempting to listen to a full length album. But now 2 hours on, no fatigue.

I am confused - as I tested ES just yesterday. It's still in the "It needs more burn-in" stage. So, is it my ears or head or placebo or just a "good batch, bad batch" thing?

 

[1235sam]

digging an old thread   I have done the foam mod - kept small amount of sponge.I have noticed that treble softens and bass increases.Anybody having same observations ? Does this mod makes sound muddy and affects the sub bass ?