Help me find a DAP ~$300
Jan 14, 2017 at 12:28 PM Post #31 of 44
I felt the same way, but not being my first DAP purchase, I was looking for something definitely with more features.  I take heavy use of my DAPs, on my car system, when doing work round the house, and often at friends houses or on friends equipment.  
 
I have a question on these DAPs that have the optical out.  They give you a 3.5mm mini toslink to coaxial digital adapter.  I bought a mini toslink to optical/SPIDF cable as I have an optical/SPIDF IN on my Fostex DAC/AMP.  Can I use this cable or can I only use a Coaxial Digital cable?  
 
I don't want to fry any ports so it would be nice if someone can chime in.
 
Jan 14, 2017 at 2:17 PM Post #32 of 44
One thing I will say is my usage of a DAP for 4 years now has pretty much been restricted to 16bit ALAC/FLAC or more commonly 24bit 96khz vinyl recordings and live concert recordings. A 20 song concert can be upwards of 3gb total so this is a much different usage from 1000s of mp3s. Man on a bad UI, I could not imagine going through a library of MP3s on two 200gb SD Cards. Bigger files are certainly more difficult in what the DAP processor and BUS speed of that DAPs can handle when reading off the micro sd card.

You might be just fine with mp3s n an AKjr. My recent DAP research when I made my decision was from those using it as a higher-res player. Obviously there are people on both sides of the fence when it comes to whether it makes a difference in quality going even to 16bit which can be at rates up to 1250kbps. As opposed to 320kbps mp3s. People spend a lot of money on this forum for headphones that will out resolve lesser models, however these same audiophiles are listening to chopped out data in a compressed MP3. Dynamics are limited at best and dynamic range is just simply noticeable to anyone that has listened to hi res for months or years of time. Sense of space is much different in my opinion in 24bit. Does not have to be 96khz either. 48 kHz is plenty and I will tell you why.

This is a really political topic I am sure on this forum so I will be tactful here, but I really have never heard anyone put it in this way so I thought I would share. When we went from DTS and Dolby Digital 5.1 16bit lossy compression to DTS Master Audio and Dolby True HD 24bit 48khz (hint hint) the soundstage in everyone's room opened up to an audio quality no one had heard before. Any home theater audiophile loves it. More dynamic range people? Time and time again I read the merits of 24bit refuted to having no effect. Then I say to them, why don't you go back to your Dolby digital sound track because it makes not difference going to from 16bit to 24bit.

I digress from this thread, but it is important and I think for newbies to DAPs on this forum that have you post here in the intro forums for a bit before playing in the other forums, you have to ask yourself why you are spending the money on one of these players. I think here on this forum, this thread can continue to grow for people interested in something other than their cell phone because a $300 priced DAP really moves you into another league for SQ in the portable market especially with harder to drive headphones.

DACs are built and spec'd to perform at different sampling rates. Why we would pay money these days over our cell phones to play mp3s is beyond me. Cell phone interfaces or the iPod touch as a non cell are much easier to operate and are higher res :wink: screens typically than what you can get on any of these DAPs. I would take an iPod touch with a FiiO Q3 that is coming out for probably less than $150 as a nice thin stack over any DAP if I was only going to listen to MP3s on it. Any of the inexpensive FiiO DAC/amp combos would be a great match for your cell or an iPod touch or nice hi res screen android variety. Tons more options too. You get a real App Store. Best of all worlds and I cannot wait to when we can buy a $300 DAP with the best of both worlds in one small deck of cards.

In my opinion you are buying anything in the $300 price category for DAPs to improve sound quality. And while you will improve the sound quality of your mp3s. In my opinion revealing the distortion and lack of dynamic range in mp3s more vividly to you is what you will experience more often.

Anyone purchasing one of these mid priced DAPs should do themselves a favor and grab a few of your old favorite CDs and re rip them to 16bit FLAC or ALAC and don't judge right away. Fill up a card and listen for weeks. Then go back to the same CD rips but those in even 320kbps MP3. You decide whether you want the compression or not from there using your beautiful new DAP DAC/AMP player and nice set of cans.

As you can tell I love DAPs. It really offered me the ability to share high quality recordings to a lot of people that would have otherwise not heard it. I took it personally back in the 90s when Napster and the MP3 basically Titanic blocked 24bit audio in the SACD and DVD Audio. And I am seeing a similar revolt on it again these days, so there you have it. Cats out of the bag. I pay good money for equipment. I want to get the best out of it. A little bit of a nitrate snob :)

Properly reproduced with a good set of mid to hi end headphones, high quality 24bit recordings can reveal a different listening experience with these higher quality digital audio players. I find it much less fatiguing as well. Oh the sibilance I have relieved myself from :)
 
Jan 14, 2017 at 2:56 PM Post #33 of 44
@NoteEater 
I agree with your point but from what I have seen even some expensive phones' DAC is not upto the standard. Battery backup is already an issue with them with regular use and some of them are now even going sans 3.5mm jack. Also, a decent $150 or less DAP outperforms these phones in SQ and unlike phones which nowadays die within 1-2 year usage DAPs have long life.
 
Jan 14, 2017 at 3:05 PM Post #34 of 44
Totally agree.  Definitely the battery issue and not being able to use the phone for phone use is a huge reason to get a DAP.  But something like the FiiO X1 gen II with Bluetooth is a perfect small option with decent SQ and pretty easy to navigate.  I own for around the house with my BT headphones when doing work.  The latest firmware now plays all my 24 bit collection.  
 
I also suggested iPod touch or android player as to not have to hinder the cell phone. 
 
Jan 14, 2017 at 3:14 PM Post #35 of 44
Wow NoteEater, that was a very well worded post.
Sadly I Only use iTunes at the moment, are there any services you reccomend that are as easy to use but have better quality? iTunes sounds good, but not great. I just have about $500 worth of purchases on it. :D
 
Jan 14, 2017 at 3:20 PM Post #36 of 44
Wow @NoteEater, that was a very well worded post.
Sadly I Only use iTunes at the moment, are there any services you reccomend that are as easy to use but have better quality? iTunes sounds good, but not great. I just have about $500 worth of purchases on it.
biggrin.gif

I use Jriver and it's quite good. Has a lot of DSP options, etc.
 
Jan 14, 2017 at 3:29 PM Post #37 of 44
I use Jriver and it's quite good. Has a lot of DSP options, etc.

Hmmm... looks complex. I'll look into it, but I'll probably keep using iTunes for a while, it has served me well thus far, and I don't get new music that often (and I still have $15 left over from Christmas gift cards). Is there a way to make iTunes music sound better? I really don't know much about this side of audio, I just like to look at headphones.
 
Jan 14, 2017 at 4:10 PM Post #38 of 44
Do an AB comparison with iTunes and the free VLC Media Player.  Everyone should have VLC on their computer.  Plays 24bit Audio too.  Footer is a decent player as well on PC.  Fellow software DB PowerAmp is often for music file conversions and ripping CDs on both Mac and PC.
 
If you want the best music player and don't mind paying:
 
On a mac, arguably that would be Amarra. On PC people most would say Jriver. 
 
If you want iTunes to sound better you need to replace your sound card by hooking up a USB DAC.  You can use the USB DAC out in every $300 DAP out there pretty much.  SO they have a Play mode and  USB DAC Moce.  Connect player to your computer via USB chagrin cable and turn on DAP in DAc Mode. Go to sound settings on computer and choose USB DAP connected.  On Windows computers, you most likely need a DAC driver from manufacturer(easy install) and then you can select it in the PC sound settings.  
 
This will bypass your less than marginal sound card on your motherboard of any laptop or PC and improve all sound quality on your computer.  Remember to change the Sampling rate to 24bit 96khz or 192khz for those playing Hi res files :wink:
 
Jan 14, 2017 at 4:45 PM Post #39 of 44
My sound card is actually pretty good. It is a Sound Blaster Recon 3Di (although specs on it are impossible to find) and to me it sounds very good, I preferred it ever so slightly over the fiio. I'll see if the AK is better when I get it.
And what can I do to improve the quality of iTunes files on the software side of things. Would a different player really make a big difference? I don't really like playing with EQ (because it usually ends up sounding better without them in the end to me) but I'm open to getting something to try out. Perferrably something free for trial.
 
Jan 14, 2017 at 8:06 PM Post #40 of 44
These are 4 good options for media players on PC.  Actually driver, winamp, and vlc work on both pc and mac.
 
http://www.foobar2000.org
 
https://www.jriver.com/purchase.html
 
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/index.html
 
This is also a great player with decent browser:
 
http://www.winamp.com
 
Jan 27, 2017 at 10:16 PM Post #41 of 44
Finally got the AK Jr. I like it a lot. The organization could definitely use work, and it is a tad slower than the x5ii (barely noticeable), but this thing sounds phenomenal! The biggest difference is when I listen to very crowded metal. Usually the instruments all roll over each other fighting for power and creating a wall of sound where you hear everything, but it just doesn't sound quite..... right. This is the first time that I've really heard my metal tracks like this! It really makes me excited.
Is it a massive difference? Not really, and it may even be part placebo effect, but something is definitely different. And I like it.
As far as looks and feel goes, the form factor is small (it's almost as slim as my iPhone 6s!) and it is very light. Actually, maybe too light. I actually prefer my electronics to have a bit of heft to them, and this definitely doesn't have that. It doesn't feel like a $500 DAP, but the sound says otherwise. Not sure if it is worth $500 as I haven't heard anything in the price range, but let's just say I don't miss my $300. :p
The UI has pretty terrible organization, not at all intuitive like the x5ii, but not terrible. I haven't had too much trouble finding things, but it's pretty disorganized. (Zynthetic and Zedd & Aloe Blacc was between 3 Doors Down and Aerosmith. I don't even know how)
Well, that is my honest firs impressions. Sorry it took so long to get them up here.
 
Jan 28, 2017 at 12:33 AM Post #43 of 44
Woah, barely noticable lag vs x5ii? I believe something went wrong with your x5ii :thinking:.

But yes, it sounds phenomenal. Feels just right :wink:. Happy for you man, and welcome to AK family :D.

No the lag is noticeable, just not much much worse than the x5ii like I expected it to be.
Glad to be part of the AK family. Hopefully I don't have to upgrade anytime soon though, because there is quite a jump to get up to the next tier of products! :D
 
Jan 28, 2017 at 6:17 AM Post #44 of 44
aune m2, or m2 pro (used). cheaper and newer one is also good, the m1s. i recommend the aune for budget dap. they have a good value for their quality. the design and ui is subjective. but for me, their simplicity is a plus. also due to simple os (which they programmed themselves with c language), they boot rapidly quick (2-5 seconds). in my experience, they have the lowest noise/hiss. best background presentation for the money. the dac is the same with ak380, akm4490. class a amplifier. low jitter clock. filtered power source. and many more features inside.

downside is the battery, m2 7-8 hours, and m1s ~11 hours.
 

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