[Wilk]

Before reading this site, I would agree that there was no way that an 'earbud' could perform nearly as well or as well as a top notch full size headphone. But the ER4s are so highly rated on this site and at headroom they have to be seriously considered. I have not heard them either, but the isolation and the portability appeals to me. And on the other hand......there is hd580s

I have thought about both 580s and Er6s but doubt very much I could afford both (unless headroom felt sorry for me and gave me a 'package' price )

 

[dhwilkin]

But if you get a pair of 580s off somewhere like Audiogon or eBay, you shouldn't pay nearly as much for them.

 

[MacDEF]

Azumandus, got your PM; sorry I didn't reply sooner.

I'll say from the start that if you don't have an amp, the choice for me would clearly be the ER6 or ER4P. The ER4S and the Senns require too much power.

If you're going to be using them portably, the ER6. The cables on the ER4S and P are very microphonic (even the P, which is better than the S). Reports on the ER6 cable have been very good.

OK, assuming that you'll be getting a good amp, this is one of the toughest choices in headphones for me

I have the HD600 and ER4P with ER4S adapter, and I've owned the HD580 and ER4S in the past. Choosing between the ER4S and HD600 is *very* tough. Both offer incredible sound -- these are my two favorite headphones out of all that I have heard (which is quite a few

). The Etys of course offer MUCH more isolation, and are very comfortable if you can stand the canalphone feel. The HD600 are more "ear" comfortable, but you have a headband and the weight of the cans.

In terms of sound, they both produce a full range when properly amplified. Both have tight, extended bass, and great detail/highs. The Etys extend a bit further down, but (as many others have said), it's purely audible bass. The Senns have both audible and visceral bass. The Etys provide a bit more detail, but part of this could be due to the fact that they isolate so well that you're better able to hear the details. The Senns are a bit warmer, while the Etys are a bit "flatter." Overall, I personally prefer the Senn sound just a tad -- to me it sounds more natural and musical. But the difference is so close that I don't know if I could give either up.

Probably didn't help you much, sorry

You might consider getting the HD580 (which are very close to the HD600 but much cheaper) and the ER6 -- together they are about the same cost as the HD600.

 

[Tim D]

First of all, even though Ety's and Sennheisers are both "headphones", the difference between the two in function is about just as wide as between speakers and most normal headphones.

Remember that Ety's have 3.5mm drivers compared to 40 or 50mm, yet they still manage to sound incredible. They provide isolation, and have a combination of unrivaled accuracy, full-frequency range, in a small portable package that can be more easily driven (depending on the resistor/impedance values).

BUT, as great as all that is, people forget the OBVIOUS...and the OBVIOUS being, they are canalphones that you need to insert into your ears, and they block out sound. Whats the problem? The isolation is another selling point obviously, and a big advantage given the right circumstance, but a clear disadvantage given the wrong ones. Etymotic really doesn't hide this fact, and in fact they boast isolation all the time on these things, yet it is amazing how many people forget what they actually ARE, sometimes thinking they are just awesome sounding earbuds or something, and think they can use them in circumstances for which they realize they don't want total isolation (maybe there is a reason why the ER6 series were named "Isolators" even though they have less isolation than the "MicroPros"). People sometimes buy them thinking they are like throw-around cans. If you buy them they should definitely fit your lifestyle, or you should be willing to adapt or learn for the phones.

Given the characteristics of the Ety's, they are a pair of phones that unfortunately I can't use the *most*. Yet they manage to be my personal favorite regardless of the fact that they aren't used the most(*blasphemy* lately, I've been playing speakers quietly the most actually). Ety's manage to be a headfize favorite regardless of their more "niche" usage which says a lot about their sound performance. I always look forward to the oppurtunities I do have to use Ety's, but realize that these oppurtunities are not 24/7. Likewise the KSC-35 are a favorite because they are the exact opposites of having any "niche" usage and are the ultimate testament to general wide-range use as throw-around phones. It is however the sound performance and suitability towards certain circumstances that makes them so good and valued to some.

So yah, I could give you my opinion as far as sound performance alone...but IMO, if you are deciding between the two on sound performance alone, you are missing major variables in the entire equation. For all I know the Ety's fit your listening lifestyle even more perfectly than Sennheisers, but really, just LOOK at the two headphones and their descriptions and usage, and it should be pretty easy to figure it out for yourself. Don't mean to come across as harsh or to overemphasize the Ety "niche" which fits perfectly with many users, but I always question how much real contemplation has gone into decision making when someone compares two very different phones in function and ask about sound alone. Make no mistake, the Senn HD600 fill a very particular "niche" as well, nearly in opposition in usage. Don't be spoiled by the KSC-35 in thinking that any better/more expensive pair of headphones is as easy to use and please in almost any circumstance...that kind of versatility stops at...the KSC-35.

 

[cajunchrist]

Quote:

...but IMO, if you are deciding between the two on sound performance alone, you are missing major variables in the entire equation

Every newbie should have that quote emailed to them upon registration. Well put.

 

[88Sound]

TimD is absolutely correct! In my last post I hyped the advantages of ETY's "total isolation". In my situation this is perfect and allows me to listen to ETY's about 90% of the time.

It would be unsafe/illegal to use ETY's while riding a bike, driving a car, I wouldn't even use them walking around outside. If I'm with my daughter when I'm using them (she's 5) she is in my sight 100% of the time.

A major ETY question is..... can I safely be completely isolated from the outside world. Plane/Train/Bus, home when you don't have to answer the phone...however cell phones/beepers on vibrate will work. I would also add your surroundings should be completely safe and known to you.

You might find your footfalls on a treadmill very loud, and no eating crunchy food with ETY's either......I think that about covers it.

 

[kelly]

The warnings you guys have for the Etys actually sound more like praises from where I'm sitting. Being cut off from the world is, IMHO, a big part of the attraction of headphone listening to begin with.

The other day I had the DT831s (closed) on when someone came into my apartment, walked all the way through the living room and into my offce to startle me.

This happened despite the fact that I listen at what seems to be a lower than average volume. (How my hearing remains in tact after I had to listen to ****ing Dokken open for bands I went to go see on three seperate occasions is beyond my ability to reason.)

Even with open design headphone, immersion is the point of the whole thing. I can't typically hear exactly what's going on around me while wearing the HD600s unless a quiet passage is playing.

It seems odd to me that one would consider isolation to be a caveat of a particular type of headphone rather than of headphones in general.

Kelly

 

[Azumandus]

In response to Tim D. I totally am in agreement. I am considerin each pair beyong just sound. You actually told me a great deal right there by saying that even though you enjoy your Ety's you don't use it as much as you've thought you would. For me if am going to spend 200+ on a headphones am going to want to use it more than that little niche of time you discribed. I also heard that only a 10% chance of you being the person that can't use ety's. I want a pair for home use but I want one that I'll use extensively. The reason I was considering the 600 instead of 580 was the fact that people said 600 was better constructed hence more tough.
So let me rephrase the question. Which of these 2 are a overall better value, when it comes to comfort, usesage, and upkeep.

 

[Wes]

Whew! You make it even tougher, Azumandus. Now, you have to allow not only for our tastes in music but also for our preferred habits of listening.

Nevertheless, let me try to be as helpful as possible. Since I've had the Ety's they have been my only way to listen. I've neglected my poor DT931's, and they do deserve much better than neglect. They are pretty fine 'phones and probably comparable to the HD600's excepting the difference in the respective house styles that I already outlined earlier.

I find the Ety's more comfortable than conventional circumaurals because they don't slip around and don't make my ears warm up. The sensation of something inserted in my ear is not disturbing in the least and often becomes unnoticeable just as the eyeglasses I always wear seldom call themselves to my attention.

But, if I were to move much, I would use the Ety's far less than I do. I prefer to sit or lie in one place concentrating on the music as much as I can; following the music and nothing else is the goal.

Moving outside, I would want more auditory clues to what was happening around me (and threatening me) than Ety's let in. In fact, when on foot or driving, I don't want any headphone on. Loud passages even from the most open designs deprive me of too many pieces of information.

Then, there's another Ety problem with motion even indoors at home: the microphonics from the cable. (Outdoors, by the way, the wind can easily add quite a whistle to the usual banging of the cable against your clothing.) I listen with maybe a good deal of head wagging but no bouncing around, dancing, or air-guitar (in my case, it would have to be more air-conducting). That didn't require any adjustment on my part; it was always my habit. I did learn to dress the cables fairly carefully in order to reduce the microphonics.

So, it's Ety's for me almost 100% of the time. I could almost consider unloading the Beyer's, but I think they might on occasion come in handy somehow.

Purely personal, of course. But that's all we can ever provide, isn't it?

 

[dknightd]

Interesting discussion

These are both good phones. Not perfect, but what is?
I think it all boils down to what you like and how you want to use them.

personally "in ear" phones sound wrong to me. Also I don't like things stuck in my ear, or the isolation.
I prefer circumaural open phones. Others prefer earuds. Many prefer something in between. Thank god we are not all the same.

If you're only intested in sound, then either is very good, but different.

If you can, I suggest trying out open cans, v.s. earbuds. To me the in ear things didn't make me happy, I think I prefer the cans that fit around the outside of the ears. But that is me.


with your choices I think you can't go too wrong.
both are good. If the ear thing doesn't work out, you can probably trade somebody for the other style.
</stop ramble>
David (I wish local stores would have what I want to try)

 

[Wilk]

Ok...I was tired during my last post and I really didn't do my question justice. I am factoring more in than just the "which sounds better" issue.

The Etys appeal to me because I don't mind in-ear style (athough I have never used Etys before) and the isolation appeals to me because I can listen to my music while my wife is watching TV or using the computer and the sound not bother me. I could also use them the few times I travel. I would not be using them for walking the dog, bicycling or situations where I want and need to hear clearly. If I am walking in an area I am comfortable with I would use my MX400s at a low enough volume to hear traffic etc. The isolation of the Etys may also let me use the treadmill without have to pump-up the volume to ungodly levels. The microphonic effect does concern me. I currently usse the Koss Plug (modified - but still sounds poor) with some success. Not much microphonic effect now that I have changed the position of the cord when wearing them. Some isolation and lower volume (just not great sound). I use the treadmill several times a week for up to an hour at a time so if they work they will get used.

I like the 580s because I really do like Sennheisers sound and could easily use them all the time at home, except for when using treadmill, etc..... I would never use them for travel either

 

[Audio-Me]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wilk I don't mind in-ear style I like the 580s... I would never use them for travel either [/B]

Etys are ear canal, not just buds, they go deep into your ear, 5x more irritating I would think.

Why not? I bought another HD600 for travel use. =)

 

[svzurich]

The Etys' microphonics is a non-issue to me. I drape mine over the ears and down my back. I operate machinery at work that requires me to move around quite a bit, and I have zero problems. I appreciate the hearing protection they offer me. The only time they are a problem is when some idiot wants to ask me a stupid question and I have to remove one to hear them. Taking the ER-4P in and out is not the problem, having the hear the person repeat information or ask a question with an obvious answer is. My Er-4Ps are a Godsend at work!

 

[chadbang]

The only way is to listen to them both. How you can do that side by side at one place is the problem. Get the best Etys you can afford from Headroom and go to a showroom with your favourite cd player and audition the Senns with the Etys. Keep which ever one sounds best.

 

[utdeep]

I'm biased here. The following is a tilted rambling overemphasizing the etys strengths and exaggerating the HD600s many weaknesses

. When I started down the same path you're treading five months ago, a wise member told me that among the creme of the crop there are no clear winners, just personal preferences. Regardless of which headphone you get, you will be happy. The only question is which one will make you HAPPIER. I believe that the Etys will.

For active use (which means you're not sitting around slacking) both headphones suck. I am not going to be walking around with a dang HD600, required amp, and audio player (especially with the clou cables). I'm not going to walk around with an ety either due to microphonic issues or sound isolation.
Even ignoring those issues, do I really care about the detail of my headphones when I'm moving around? If I'm moving around, I use my KSC 35s... the best $15 investmestments I've ever made.

My true headphone quest began when I was searching for a stationary listening audiophile quality headphones. I searched the boards for a while before I made my purchase of the Ety4P. I found only one dissenting opinion (acidtrip guy) on their impeccable sound quality. With the HD600s there were far too many assorted opinions (people said the $100 clou cable was required, the HD600 was too dark, the HD600 is extremely dependent on the amp, it sucks compared to CD3000). While I was happy with the nirvana of the Etys, I eventually purchased the HD600s with red clou (their ultimate form!). The sound was different and enjoyable, but didn't justify the cost. The HD600 costs close to $240 (cheapest), clou cost $100 and require an amp. The Ety 4P costs $270.

When I had the HD600 with red clou, I didn't think they blew away the etys (using a cosmic headphone amp). Durability wise, I have no doubt that my Etys with rubber tips/cable could survive a 30 foot drop (not that I would try anything like that), while I doubt that the HD600 could survive crammed in a backback (which I'd have to stuff an amp in as well

). This is mostly due to mass and design of course.

When I want to immerse myself in sound, I use my etys. I can sit down in my special listening chair and close my eyes. I can also sit on a bench in a crowded street and have a similar experience. The Ety4P would work great with the lousy headphone out of my minidisc player, and with the 4P-4S adapter it would be ecstacy with the cosmic amp. I don't have those options with the HD600.

I think you should grab the Etys because they are more smaller, cheaper, a consensus of people who have used both would say they sound better (at least the last time I checked), and they give you more options (4P, or + adapter = 4S).

Of course, this is all my opinion. Good luck!