Help Me Choose Some Upgrades/Additions to My Vinyl Rig (multiple choice poll)
Aug 15, 2009 at 9:27 PM Post #16 of 108
It was indeed 2juki. I was a little mistaken about the cart though. It's a ZYX Airy2. Still a great deal to be sure and I'll keep your post in mind for future reference. I have seen his listings from time to time and every now and then he has a great price on something that seems a little too good to be true. He also has some Benz Ruby 2's for a shade under $1,300. That's another great deal for an awesome cartridge.

So I end up with a ZYX R100 Fuji Silver that cost me $1,200 and is now selling for $2,500. Still a great deal in my book. I have been very fortunate to benefit from enough amazing deals in audio that I won't be too hard on myself for letting one occasionally slip by.

I have decided to just run the full gammut, pull the trigger on a new phono preamp, and be done with it (some of you probably are thinking that there was never any doubt about that
wink.gif
). I don't want to nickel and dime myself to a $4,000 expenditure. Once this is done then the only thing left to do is the parts upgrade from SOTA sometime nearly next year. Since my SOTA is operationally solid I think I will be able to patiently wait until then.

--Jerome
 
Aug 16, 2009 at 4:35 AM Post #17 of 108
Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It was indeed 2juki. I was a little mistaken about the cart though. It's a ZYX Airy2. Still a great deal to be sure and I'll keep your post in mind for future reference. I have seen his listings from time to time and every now and then he has a great price on something that seems a little too good to be true. He also has some Benz Ruby 2's for a shade under $1,300. That's another great deal for an awesome cartridge.


There was a long discussion on A-gon about 2juki about 5 or 6 years ago when the Ortofon X5-MC was the flavor of the month. He was selling it online and on A-gon for 1/2 of what authorized Ortofon retailers were. His prices on several other Ortofons were 2/3 of retail. A few members contacted Ortofon directly. Ortofon were very closed-mouth except to reluctantly confirm that these were genuine, new, and had been obtained legitimately. I ended up buying a Rohmann for myself and an X5 for a friend. About a year later he stopped selling Ortofon. Although there was little that could be substantiated, the theory was that he had a legitimate source in Japan (cough, Ikeda, cough) through which he made purchases of large quantities of select items at a very good price. He then sold them out over time. Benz would be a relatively recent addition, but he has been selling ZYX and Ikeda for some time. He also had several NOS and used Fidelity Research items a couple of years back, which would tie in with the Ikeda connection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif
So I end up with a ZYX R100 Fuji Silver that cost me $1,200 and is now selling for $2,500. Still a great deal in my book. I have been very fortunate to benefit from enough amazing deals in audio that I won't be too hard on myself for letting one occasionally slip by.


Definitely a great deal. The R100 is not my cup of tea, but I seem to be in the minority on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I have decided to just run the full gammut, pull the trigger on a new phono preamp, and be done with it (some of you probably are thinking that there was never any doubt about that
wink.gif
). I don't want to nickel and dime myself to a $4,000 expenditure. Once this is done then the only thing left to do is the parts upgrade from SOTA sometime nearly next year. Since my SOTA is operationally solid I think I will be able to patiently wait until then.



The jury's still out, but I think that there is at least a 50/50 chance that you'll wait until after Christmas
biggrin.gif
. I may start a poll. Do you believe Jerome will wait until 2010 to have his SOTA upgraded?
popcorn.gif
 
Aug 16, 2009 at 12:21 PM Post #18 of 108
Quote:

Originally Posted by NightOwl /img/forum/go_quote.gif
There was a long discussion on A-gon about 2juki about 5 or 6 years ago when the Ortofon X5-MC was the flavor of the month. He was selling it online and on A-gon for 1/2 of what authorized Ortofon retailers were. His prices on several other Ortofons were 2/3 of retail. A few members contacted Ortofon directly. Ortofon were very closed-mouth except to reluctantly confirm that these were genuine, new, and had been obtained legitimately. I ended up buying a Rohmann for myself and an X5 for a friend. About a year later he stopped selling Ortofon. Although there was little that could be substantiated, the theory was that he had a legitimate source in Japan (cough, Ikeda, cough) through which he made purchases of large quantities of select items at a very good price. He then sold them out over time. Benz would be a relatively recent addition, but he has been selling ZYX and Ikeda for some time. He also had several NOS and used Fidelity Research items a couple of years back, which would tie in with the Ikeda connection.


That's good to know. I don't mind spending a few bucks on audio but it would be foolish to pay a lot more than you have to. I have my own little list of trusted audio dealers on eBay, Audiogon, etc. who regularly sell at a markdown.

Quote:

Definitely a great deal. The R100 is not my cup of tea, but I seem to be in the minority on that.


I am in an experimentation mindset at the moment. I wish I could try more of the expensive carts. I would love to take the following for a spin: Lyra Skala, Grado Statement Reference, Koetsu Rosewood, Shelter 7000, and Clearaudio Stradavari. Perhaps I will get around to it some day.

I have two of Ortofon's higher end carts, the Kontrapunkt A and Jubilee, and can easily hear a difference between them that justifies the higher price of the latter. There is a chance that I may take to a ZYX Airy if the R100 Fuji finds favor with these ears. It should be interesting.

Quote:

The jury's still out, but I think that there is at least a 50/50 chance that you'll wait until after Christmas
biggrin.gif
. I may start a poll. Do you believe Jerome will wait until 2010 to have his SOTA upgraded?
popcorn.gif


LOL. I can't rule it out entirely. Three short months ago before the stylus on my Benz Wood M2 gave out I would not have predicted that today that I would own three MC carts with a fourth on the way and a new tonearm to boot.
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But I will say that my deck is really fine the way it is. If that were to change and a problem developed then it would go to SOTA right away and I will have to settle for using the Technics SL-1210M5G that I am going to fit with a Jelco SA-750 tonearm. This deck is going into my AKG K1000 headphone rig.

--Jerome
 
Aug 16, 2009 at 9:02 PM Post #19 of 108
Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I am in an experimentation mindset at the moment. I wish I could try more of the expensive carts. I would love to take the following for a spin: Lyra Skala, Grado Statement Reference, Koetsu Rosewood, Shelter 7000, and Clearaudio Stradavari. Perhaps I will get around to it some day.


I think you might get around to most of these and add some others along the way. I was at the same point you are now several years ago when I was in my early 40's. For various life reasons I no longer pursue my hobby with the same passion. I do get vicarious pleasure from following your quest though and admit to a little jealousy.

I have heard the Koetsu and the Grado. Absolutely loved the Koetsu. The Grado is a fine cartridge and very pleasant for long term listening sessions but other cartridges stirred me more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif
LOL. I can't rule it out entirely. Three short months ago before the stylus on my Benz Wood M2 gave out I would not have predicted that today that I would own three MC carts with a fourth on the way and a new tonearm to boot.
smile.gif
But I will say that my deck is really fine the way it is. If that were to change and a problem developed then it would go to SOTA right away and I will have to settle for using the Technics SL-1210M5G that I am going to fit with a Jelco SA-750 tonearm. This deck is going into my AKG K1000 headphone rig.



I think the SOTA is a terrific deck and one of my favorites. I have not heard the Version III upgrades, but have confidence that if SOTA says they are worthwhile then they are.

Everyone should have a back up table or two
tongue.gif
. The Technics is a departure from the SOTA and I'm not convinced that you will like it. It is a logical step if you wish to try something different and you seem to be a logical man (if a little impatient, impulsive and with more loose change than the average person)
wink_face.gif
. I always liked to experiment with variety myself.

A little OT, but hey it's your thread. Discussing 2juki reminded me of Osamu Ikeda. If you're not familiar with him you should google him. You would appreciate the history and the innovations that he's responsible for. By the way, he's now 83 and still coming out with very remarkable high-end phono creations. He is also said to have had uncredited input into the design of ZYX cartridges.

Peter
 
Aug 19, 2009 at 6:33 PM Post #20 of 108
The SME 309 and ZYX R100 Fuji arrived today. I started to post it here, then changed my mind and was going to start a new thread, and then decided to put it here. I was almost a charter member of the Undecided Club, but I couldn't make up my mind.

Anyway. Getting the SME 309 installed and dialed in was not as easy a task as I thought it would be. I have changed out tonearms before but had no experience with the more modern SME arms like the 300 series. Compared to the 3009 Series II the 309 is massive. There is a lot of weight and heft to the base, and I ended up having to remove all of the lead shot from the shot cavity beneath the armboard to rebalance the platter. SOTA was kind enough to email the setup procedure to me.

When I first looked at the headshell I was bugged because at first glance it appeared to be made out of plastic. It bothered me so much that I had to stop working on it and clear my head. When I began working on it again it became evident that headshell is in fact magnesium. What made me think it was plastic was the very smooth finish on it relative to the powdercoat on the tonearm itself. I'll have more to say on the headshell in a minute.

I would call the installation instructions that SME supplied fair. I can't rate them better than that because there were a few important details that were not explained very well. The base locking lugs, for example, lock all adjustments except for VTF and headshell azimuth. There are no fine adjustments that can be made to HTA or VTA. They are quite crude and not easily dialed in. To help you SME supplies a mounting template and an alignment protractor. The protractor doubles as a ruler to help you set VTA. The adjustment procedure is somewhat agonizing though. You have to have base lugs unlocked. You don't want them too loose because then you end up shooting past the mark you are trying to hit. If the lugs are too tight then adjustment become difficult. And since with the lugs unlocked you can adjust HTA and VTA at the same time, you do have to be very careful when touching the arm. The manual says all of the adjustments are spring loaded to make fine adjustment possible until you can set VTF, HTA, and VTA...but this isn't nearly has helpful as you might think.

The best way to dial this arm in is to mount a throw away cartridge on the headshell and then get everything close. I happened to have a cartridge in need of retip that tracks close to what the ZYX R100 Fuji does and has almost the same mass. So everything was very close when I put the ZYX on. All I had to do was make some fine adjustment to VTF and VTA and it was all set to go. Changing between the ZYX and my Ortofons was simple enough.

I will say that the headshell stinks though. Since he headshell has a hex head screw when you tighten it you are torquing about the axis perpendicular to the azimuth adjustment, and this makes it extremely difficult to get the cartridge perfectly perpendicular to the record surface. On the two occasions I have changed out the cartridge I found myself re-doing this adjustment at least two or three times. This is a piece of cake with the 3009 Series II.

Right now I am listing to some jazz with the ZYX R100 Fuji. The cartridge tracks perfectly at 2 grams VTF. I won't comment on the sound because the cart really needs to break in, but I do like what I hear so far.

The verdict on the SME 309 tonearm is positive overall and there is no doubt in my mind that it is a better arm than the vintage SME 3009 Series II. However, setting up the latter is easier than the former, and I am not just saying that because I am much more familiar with the SME 3009 Series II. The 309, at times, was very frustrating to work with. But so far it seems to be worth it.

SME309_1.jpg


SME309_2.jpg


SME309_3.jpg



--Jerome
 
Aug 20, 2009 at 4:09 AM Post #22 of 108
Very nice. The arm looks like it belongs on the SOTA. I'd like to hear your impressions down the road with the Jubilee and the Benz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The verdict on the SME 309 tonearm is positive overall and there is no doubt in my mind that it is a better arm than the vintage SME 3009 Series II. However, setting up the latter is easier than the former, and I am not just saying that because I am much more familiar with the SME 3009 Series II. The 309, at times, was very frustrating to work with. But so far it seems to be worth it.


Helpful insight on the installation process. It seems to be the only major complaint with the SME arms. SME started making their arms more adjustable with the Series III. I've never installed a 309 or later model myself. My friend told me that installing his SME V took longer than other arms and was quite fiddly. He would definitely do it again and has no desire to change.
 
Aug 20, 2009 at 12:15 PM Post #23 of 108
Tonearm designers often have to make engineering decisions on weather to allow the tonearm to sound better or make the thing easier to set-up with more dials and adjustments. I prefer to error towards better sound and fortunately tonearms need to be set-up only once. I tend to not change cartridges very often since being on the wrong side of 40. I would much rather play music than fiddle with a turntable. I suppose this is why I have gone to the dark side and joined the Technics 1200 MK2 crowd. This machine is easier to use than any other and sounds good enough for what I need which is pretty good.
 
Aug 20, 2009 at 12:56 PM Post #24 of 108
I don't necessarily agree that the principal design choice is between sound quality and ease of setup, though I'm sure it's a factor. The classic SME 3009, is by most accounts (including mine) a great sounding tonearm and it is a proverbial piece of cake to dial in. I could practically do it in my sleep.

I think with modern arms the design choice is between ease of setup and cost. At the pricepoints we are talking about I think its a given that at least when the product is on the drawing board, an effort is made to engineer sound quality into the tonearm. The Graham Phantom II B-44 has very fine micrometer calibrated adjustments for virtually everything (and interchangable armwands to boot). But it costs nearlly $5,000. Does the SME V sound better? I don't think the answer to that is a slam dunk by any stretch. Both have their fans, and both have been very well received by audiophiles and reviewers alike. Which would I rather setup? That's easy, the Graham Phantom is a walk in the park next to the SME.

--Jerome
 
Aug 20, 2009 at 1:42 PM Post #25 of 108
Adjustability as a rule compromises structural integrity. Better ways of doing this will of course minimize any harmful effects. The more crap you hang on a tonearm,the worse it will sound and then running wiring through the thing is also a fundamentally bad idea but good engineering can mostly steer around these and other problems tonearm physics deals with.
 
Aug 20, 2009 at 2:01 PM Post #26 of 108
We will just have to agree to disagree. Solving problems is what engineers get paid to do, in addition to balancing design goals and objectives, design elements, and costs.

I know I can point to many arms, expensive as they may be, that have plenty of fine tuning built into their designs and are uniformly lauded by audiophiles and reviewers. Who are you to say otherwise? Arguing that these designs might sound better if they had less refined adjustments is a waste of breath, time, and bandwidth.

Let's drop it and move on. Thanks.

--Jerome
 
Aug 20, 2009 at 2:14 PM Post #27 of 108

Good Morning

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Thank You



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Aug 20, 2009 at 2:26 PM Post #28 of 108
Quote:

Originally Posted by NightOwl /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Very nice.


Thanks. The SME 309 most certainly sounds different than the classic 3009 Series II. I have only spun a few albums on it but overall I would have to say that PRAT is improved on the 309, with particular empahsis on the attack and decay of notes. I can see how one might prefer the classic SME 3009 for jazz and the 300 series for classical. I listened to my 200g classic records reissue of Brahams Violin Concerto (Jascha Heifetz soloist) and I was awestruck by the violin. It reached out and touched me in a way that I have not heard before. I have not listened to enough jazz yet to form an impression...but I will get to it.

Quote:

The arm looks like it belongs on the SOTA. I'd like to hear your impressions down the road with the Jubilee and the Benz.


I will most likely spend some time breaking in the ZYX R100 Fuji before mounting either the Jubilee or Benz. The ZYX has a lot to live up to, because the Jubilee is one helluva cartridge and has become my favorite in the relatively short time I have owned it.

--Jerome
 
Aug 20, 2009 at 3:28 PM Post #29 of 108
Quote:

Originally Posted by NightOwl /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I often wish I'd kept my 3009. Even though I wasn't all that enamored with the sound, it was just so aesthetically pleasing and a piece of audio history.


I hope I don't regret it but I just listed my 3009 Series II on the FS forum. If it doesn't move here then I'll put it up on Audiogon.

I was going to keep it but then realized that I have too many other toys lying around that I no longer use and kept for sentimental reasons. I think it's time to clear out some of this stuff.

--Jerome
 
Aug 20, 2009 at 4:11 PM Post #30 of 108
Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I hope I don't regret it but I just listed my 3009 Series II on the FS forum. If it doesn't move here then I'll put up on Audiogon.

I was going to keep it but then realized that I have too many other toys lying around that I no longer use and kept for sentimental reasons. I think it's time to clear out some of this stuff.

--Jerome



Well at least it would easy enough to reacquire one if you do miss it. My regret passes or I would have picked up another one myself. You'll probably end up selling it on Audiogon. It's too bad that buyers on ebay can be unreliable because you'd probably get more for it there.

I came to the same realization (with some prodding from my wife) regarding my extra components at my last move. I've already sold quite a few and am now thinning the herd of the items that have been with me longest that I no longer use. I still must be attached to them since I do it slowly and am tempted to vet the buyers to see if they'll appreciate them.
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