Help me choose my next headphone (Arya, Clear, Verite, HD800s, x?)
Feb 5, 2021 at 6:18 AM Post #46 of 69
If you’re located in US there is a shop(s)that let you return headphones within a year and replace it with something new.
Finding fellow headphone aficionados in your area might be helpful as well. That’s actually what I’m thinking of doing. Sounds like these Headphone-Fi meets are great for exchanging ideas and experience gear that is carefully selected by fellow audiophiles and not by a salesman working on a commission.
I’m waiting for Audeze to show what they got. I know they’re coming out in 2021 with some goodies but I am not 100% sure what it is. BTW I also own LCDX. No EQ (Except little Schiit Loki). It’s tuning works on some genres/recordings so I intend to keep it.
 
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Feb 5, 2021 at 10:28 AM Post #47 of 69
If you’re located in US there is a shop(s)that let you return headphones within a year and replace it with something new.
Finding fellow headphone aficionados in your area might be helpful as well. That’s actually what I’m thinking of doing. Sounds like these Headphone-Fi meets are great for exchanging ideas and experience gear that is carefully selected by fellow audiophiles and not by a salesman working on a commission.
I’m waiting for Audeze to show what they got. I know they’re coming out in 2021 with some goodies but I am not 100% sure what it is. BTW I also own LCDX. No EQ (Except little Schiit Loki). It’s tuning works on some genres/recordings so I intend to keep it.

I've never heard of that before what shops offer this?
 
Feb 5, 2021 at 10:44 AM Post #48 of 69
I've never heard of that before what shops offer this?
Check your mailbox. I’ve never used them but know ppl that did. Might be something that works for you....
 
Feb 5, 2021 at 6:18 PM Post #49 of 69
what do you use for EQ on the Arya? I used a preset I found on Reddit and didn’t find that it made a lot of difference. I also have focal Elegia and those sounded night and day different when EQ’d. I would love to try your recommendation.

Thanks, I haven't owned them. I took one of the more accurate HF graphs on it, and sort of adjusted from there. Better for sure. Best, I find it takes weeks to really get the settings on any HFM phone
 
Feb 6, 2021 at 12:24 AM Post #50 of 69
i recommend Oratory’s EQ setting the guy isan acoustics engineer and has access to an industry leading measurement rig and has measured a lot of headphones multiple times and he reaverages his curves as he does more and more over time. This is a great way to start and then tweak by ear.
 
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Feb 6, 2021 at 3:41 PM Post #51 of 69
i recommend Oratory’s EQ setting the guy isan acoustics engineer and has access to an industry leading measurement rig and has measured a lot of headphones multiple times and he reaverages his curves as he does more and more over time. This is a great way to start and then tweak by ear.

The measurements are at/near SOTA. However the recommended settings under 100 are influenced by flawed logic and produce unmusical results.
 
Feb 6, 2021 at 4:24 PM Post #52 of 69
The measurements are at/near SOTA. However the recommended settings under 100 are influenced by flawed logic and produce unmusical results.

sorry not sure i understand. are you trying to say you think the harman curve is flawed in the bass region?

if so it's a preferential curve so it's more of an opinion so can't really call it flawed IMO.

also, the bass region is extremely easy to adjust to preference with your own EQ settings. I don't use quite as much of a low shelf as Oratory does in his settings, hence I tweak by ear. Also, since planars measure so flat in the bass, it is usually just a low shelf down low so literally 1 EQ parameter adjustment and you're golden. so i stand by my statement in that oratory's settings are certainly recommended.
 
Feb 6, 2021 at 7:20 PM Post #53 of 69
sorry not sure i understand. are you trying to say you think the harman curve is flawed in the bass region?

if so it's a preferential curve so it's more of an opinion so can't really call it flawed IMO.

also, the bass region is extremely easy to adjust to preference with your own EQ settings. I don't use quite as much of a low shelf as Oratory does in his settings, hence I tweak by ear. Also, since planars measure so flat in the bass, it is usually just a low shelf down low so literally 1 EQ parameter adjustment and you're golden. so i stand by my statement in that oratory's settings are certainly recommended.

He adds an input for "average rooms" (small rooms not made for music, that feature heavily over stated bass).

He also adds in more bass because more bass is more popular to more people. I could care less what the average listener likes. My references are live music and the music rooms I designed for myself and others (professionally). I don't do 5 ch, or quadrophonic, I do stereo. A biased/colored response curve that is musically wrong is a waste of time to me, and an obvious misdirection for many users.

I've owned/lived with over 10 different dipoles. They have some difficult problens - cancellation, Being badly affected by full carpeting, or soft rear walls...I would say that there should likely be 3 bass settings if not more on a digital parametric 10 band EQ. I would test the entire audio range after initial set-up. What somebody in a different env thinks is a good setting my not very useful to your settings.
 
Feb 6, 2021 at 7:40 PM Post #54 of 69
i recommend Oratory’s EQ setting the guy isan acoustics engineer and has access to an industry leading measurement rig and has measured a lot of headphones multiple times and he reaverages his curves as he does more and more over time. This is a great way to start and then tweak by ear.
I tried the parametric EQ settings for Oratory with my HD800S and it was terrible. The problem with Oratory it doesn't take into account the system and conditions used for taking the measurements. If you have different pads on a ZMF headphone, for example, the EQ settings are wrong. You are much better off trying several of the presets based on various conditions and see which one works best for you. Frequency response curve changes with pads with cables with sources with amps, etc.

Also, the Harman curve is a broad average of consumer preferences. Hardly any of us are exactly at the mean. The better approach is to listen to 10-20 different headphones, see which one you like and then tune your current headphones to the frequency response of those headphones. I would rather tune my headphones to the Ananda than the Harman curve.

Lastly, if you just take any headphone and tune it to the Harman curve, you lose the tuning intended by the developers for that product. The ZMF headphones, as an example, have a house sound with a somewhat funky looking FR curve. I took mine and tuned it to a harman curve and it sounded almost exactly like my HD800S which small differences in certain things like bass timbre. I A/B tested my harman tuning to the ZMF tuning on my amps and I much preferred Zachs tuning. Tuning also needs to take into account physical limitations of the headphones. You can't tune anything to anything else.

If you are just going to get a technically strong headphone and tune it to Harman, you only need one pair of headphones. That's like having only one flavor of ice cream. That's boring. I think the best method of EQ is what Chrono does from Headphones.com. He takes his personal experience with his own preference curves, listens to the headphones, looks at the FR curve and makes small adjustments to make it adhere more closely to his preferences without losing the primary intentions of the headphones.

If all you were going to do was take a pair of headphones and tune it to Harman, you should have bought the Ananda's. They are much better tuned. The Arya requires tuning, but by a person who knows their preferences to tweak the sound appropriately.
 
Feb 6, 2021 at 7:56 PM Post #55 of 69
He adds an input for "average rooms" (small rooms not made for music, that feature heavily over stated bass).

He also adds in more bass because more bass is more popular to more people. I could care less what the average listener likes. My references are live music and the music rooms I designed for myself and others (professionally). I don't do 5 ch, or quadrophonic, I do stereo. A biased/colored response curve that is musically wrong is a waste of time to me, and an obvious misdirection for many users.

I've owned/lived with over 10 different dipoles. They have some difficult problens - cancellation, Being badly affected by full carpeting, or soft rear walls...I would say that there should likely be 3 bass settings if not more on a digital parametric 10 band EQ. I would test the entire audio range after initial set-up. What somebody in a different env thinks is a good setting my not very useful to your settings.

I was not aware he used a custom target curve outside of the harman target if that's what you're talking about. he lists the 2018 harman target as far as I can tell and from when I've talked to him. where are you getting this information? Or are you again talking about the Harman target? the Harman target isn't solely preferential. in a nutshell the theory was first that a headphone should sound like a good pair of speakers in a music studio essentially, not an anechoic chamber but also not room with full reverberation. then they tested this theory against other targets and this version was preferred by many sound engineers, listeners, etc. this makes sense because it is the closest to how the music was created and inteded to sound and it is still using a simulated head, chest, ear, and ear canal...

I too think it has a tad too much bass so I simply reduce the low shelf. but I do think the Harman target in the high mids and treble is quite useful as it closely related to the average human ear gain anyway so the top half of the curve is a little less preferential and more widely accepted.

i mean put it this way. I used to do produce electronic music for years and have had several home studios decently treated and also have a decent 2ch setup and studio now. and while those rooms are not perfect, they are treated and there is some room correction. Oratory's curves are typically not too far off froom sounding to my ear fairly balanced. Again I usually reduce the bass about 1.5-2db from his parameters and sometimes I reduce the treble portion 1db or so depending on the headphone but again it's usually pretty close so ill double stand by my original statement in that i think oratorys eq parameters are a good starting point. of course you need to test for yourself and see what sounds right, do some comparisons.

EDIT: to the poster above. why would oratory take into consideration custom pads? he does these measurements and parameters as a hobby...you can't account for all the pad and tweaks for every headphone, it makes perfect sense to test them in their stock form that way everyone has a baseline. if you have custom pads you're on your own for finding eq parameters that work through other means of measuring and testing.

that point is ridiculous to say his measurements and eq parameters should not be recommended...you just have to keep in mind that if you're running custom pads or mods. i too have headphonens with different pads and your right the EQ curves do not work well with that. but i knew that ahead of time since the pads changed the sound from stock drastically. i had no expectations for that to work. however, again, i have found his settings for headphones in their stock form pretty darn good. I make some minor tweaks like reducing the bass shelf a bit and doing some of my own testing and listening to dial in the upper mids and treble.

Lastly, again, I don't just input his harman curve and call it a day. i said it's a good starting point to go with, see how it sounds then do some testing, adjusting and listening, rise, repeat...we all dont have GRAS' laying around so it's nice to have some other data points. and like i said earlier, the harman target is fairly accepted for the upper mids and treble portion in which ear gain is being accounted for.
 
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Feb 6, 2021 at 9:23 PM Post #56 of 69
I was not aware he used a custom target curve outside of the harman target if that's what you're talking about. he lists the 2018 harman target as far as I can tell and from when I've talked to him. where are you getting this information? Or are you again talking about the Harman target? the Harman target isn't solely preferential. in a nutshell the theory was first that a headphone should sound like a good pair of speakers in a music studio essentially, not an anechoic chamber but also not room with full reverberation.
Anechoic Chambers sound brutal for sure. I attended a large amount of concerts at the BSO, Carneigie. Mechanics Hall and other nice acoustic settings. I never found sound engineers to be overly trained in listening. Lots of times they listen to super hot headphones or monitors to wake them up to something wrong during the long boring hours. I'm a throwback to triple mics, and direct to disc. I think music should sound as close as possible to the real thing. Rooms? Concrete floor with 2x2 scatter rugs on half, solid walls, with ASC tube traps and Sound Flags scattered about. Sparse furnishings to the left/right of your ear. No overstuffed chair under your butt. Room dimensions like" my last home - 34'x21'x10-14', 6 apatures in the walls (doors and windows - all treated to not rattle). A pair of ML CLS IIz w/ Gradient subs or Verity Parsifal (v 3 or later). coule of Pass amps & pre-amp, Koetsu on a Clearuadio straight arm on a VPI TNT Jr. That was my norm. Not interested in "good loud speakers" in a "decent room".

I too think it has a tad too much bass so I simply reduce the low shelf. but I do think the Harman target in the high mids and treble is quite useful as it closely related to the average human ear gain anyway so the top half of the curve is a little less preferential and more widely accepted.

Sure I just specified under 100 Hz, over that they have things pretty screwed down tight. However, with planar headphones - they always follow the FR, there is no attention paid to frequencies of serious ringing. So when I look at what they have for my planar I have to get a waterfall plot to try and set it, and play around until its pretty close. And as I mentioned I wouldn't trust any settings for a dipole - that's measurements, then lots of listening, and some room corrections. It's an art, science cannot do the job on its own.

i mean put it this way. I used to do produce electronic music for years and have had several home studios decently treated and also have a decent 2ch setup and studio now. and while those rooms are not perfect, they are treated and there is some room correction. Oratory's curves are typically not too far off froom sounding to my ear fairly balanced. Again I usually reduce the bass about 1.5-2db from his parameters and sometimes I reduce the treble portion 1db or so depending on the headphone but again it's usually pretty close so ill double stand by my original statement in that i think oratorys eq parameters are a good starting point. of course you need to test for yourself and see what sounds right, do some comparisons.

I use them, that's how I came to find they were in every single case I've examined closely - about 10-11 - clearly wrong in the bass, and as I said for planar headphones - they ignore ringing. But magnetic planars all ring quite a bit.

Lastly, again, I don't just input his harman curve and call it a day. i said it's a good starting point to go with, see how it sounds then do some testing, adjusting and listening, rise, repeat...we all dont have GRAS' laying around so it's nice to have some other data points. and like i said earlier, the harman target is fairly accepted for the upper mids and treble portion in which ear gain is being accounted for.

Agree for the most part, but I have yet to hear a setting for any headphones under 100 Hz that's correct. I don't listen to closed ear cans, and I listen to almost all planars. I have a high quality system for cans - no match for my old room stereos, but very cost effective.
 
Feb 7, 2021 at 1:35 AM Post #58 of 69
Do you know who's selling HE-6SE v2's for $699? I thought the Adorama sale was over.

QUOTE="bagwell359, post: 16149284, member: 462884"]
You are IMO missing two important choices.

HFM HE-6sev2 at $699 punches way higher, better than Arya IMO.

Dan Clark: E2 best bass at its price or under. Relaxed in treble unless you use EQ,

It looks like you like it bright. I'm just trying to give ideas more up the neutral lane.
[/QUOTE]
 
Feb 7, 2021 at 9:50 AM Post #59 of 69
Feb 7, 2021 at 6:11 PM Post #60 of 69
I went from the Clears to the Aryas, and felt the HiFiMan has a plastic, unnatural sounding upper midrange, especially with female vocals.

Never been a fan of HiFIMan (dry/metallic).
Verite gets a lot of love within the community so it might be worth a bit extra. But I would not dismiss Eicon or Auteur. I was actually looking into VC but after a bit of research and some conversations with people from within industry, I am actually interested in these two in particular.
There are many other headphones out there. Depends what you value most and genres that these headphones will be tasked with to tackle.
 

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