[gpalmer]

Oh man, now I have a bunch of home work to do! I appreciate the huge head start all of your posts have given me. Normally I would have spent a few months really learning about each of the players and the portable market in general but in this case I wanted to short cut the process a bit and your input will really help there.

I already have a portable CD/DVD/DVD-Audio player that will be going along for the trip so this would just be for digital audio so I think the laptop might be overkill. If I take one along it'll be property of the company I'm working for.

It's looking like the easiest and cheapest amp to bring along would be my Grace 901 since all I have to do to convert it to 240 V is change a cam setting, pop in a new fuse and get a new power cord. (Thanks for the 240 V tip Bangraman). This does have a built in DAC on it which I haven't played with a lot but it seemed pretty good to me when I did try it. OTOH, it might make more sense to get something that could be used at work as well as home. I've never liked taking the Grace to work since it just costs too durn much if it gets damaged, lost or stolen. I have to have a debate with myself over whether I want to get an XP-7, get a UK version of the Elpac for my Gilmore Lite or try something different like the Bithead.

This means that the suggestions I need to look at are:

iPod - Defnitely of interest, I just wish I could get a bigger drive for it though if Apple's lossless compression is as good as they say, I think this could work out nicely.

NJB3 - Another really strong contender. I took a look at the drive upgrade process and that would really make this an interesting player. Seems like a lot of folks think very highly of this one in spite of it's clunky looks!

I assume the hot setup here is to buy the 20GB, rip out the drive and put in a 80 GB replacement. Is there any advantage to getting the 5400 RPM/8 MB buffer models that are out there? Are there any disc intensive activites that get performed other than loading it, like a defrag or a disc integrity check? It looks like Creative is killing this player off since it isn't for sale on thier web site anymore, though I'm not sure this is of concern. Can anyone tell me what the interface is for the stock hard drive, that is, is it ATA-6, ATA/100, etc?

Rio Karma - This is another good one I have to look at more closely.

IHP-120 - If the Grace comes along for the trip I'll have a DAC on hand so this might be worthwhile. How does the built in DAC compare? I would like to have first rate sound even without an external DAC.

One question that popped out at me while I was researching the players was about recharging them.

1) Does the iPod recharge even while it's in use?
2) Does the Jukebox 3 take a standard AC adapter that I could pick up in Great Britain?

 

[Watchdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer One question that popped out at me while I was researching the players was about recharging them. 1) Does the iPod recharge even while it's in use? 2) Does the Jukebox 3 take a standard AC adapter that I could pick up in Great Britain?

I have a 3rd gen iPod and can confirm that yes it does recharge even while it's in use.

I've seen pics of the NJB3 and it just takes a standard 5V adaptor, don't know what the minimum current required is, so it should be quite easy to find an AC adapter in the UK, or most industrialized countries in the world for that matter.

I didn't compare the iRiver w/external DAC to it's internal DAC at our meet. However TrevorNetwork did. He had the IHP-120 into the Piccolo DAC feeding the Musical Fidelity X-Can V.3, and I think the Senn 650's and he said it sounded great. He then had the same system feeding the analog output of the iRiver into the X-Can and it was noticably poorer.

I don't think that means the internal DAC of the iRiver is any worse than the DAC's inside the iPod, Karma, NJB3, etc..... it just shows you as a group how poor the DACs are to a good external DAC. If you're going to bring a Grace 901 and using the PS-1, then I think you owe it to yourself to get the iRiver. None of the other players will be able to sound as good as the IHP with that combo.

I mean you're going to have one of the world's best headphones, a killer headphone amp with a built in DAC that Stereophile says compares favourably with more expensive DACs that are stand alone. It just seems to make so much more sense to get the iRiver for your application.

This advice is coming from an iPod owner who's considering getting a Karma to complement it.

Every player has it's strengths and weaknesses and the IHP-120 is best suited for your situation. Something to keep in mind is that most people love the "toy" they own and have a bias towards recommending it to you.

 

[bangraman]

The iHP's optical is OK, but I found it noticeably lacklustre with the ATH-D1000. One of the builders said he had heard it was bit-perfect, in which case I would be at a loss to explain why some PCDP's sounded so much better. I felt that it was better to drive the iPod with a decent analog amp if that was all the iHP had to offer... Perhaps the codec chip is a bit ropey.

[size=xx-small]The other test rig.[/size]

I purchased the iHP with a view to replacing the iPod and the NJB3 and using the ATH-D1000 as my main semiportables... and for me it didn't work out although it wasn't just the sound that was the problem. It was too much of a gadget IMO. As an analog comparison I also tried the XP-7 + W2002 with both the iPod and the iHP. The iPod was definitely the winner with that test.




The Toshiba MK8025GAS is what I use in my NJB3. It's an 80Gb 4200rpm 8MB buffer drive. AFAIK it took around 3 hours to write 50Gb (i.e. A track a second at 128K). I got it simply because the Fujitsu drive I originally wanted wasn't in stock. It's power consumption seems to be on the high side for a 4.2K drive but I'm not noticing any notable endurance differences. If the PSU I've been supplied with is any indication of what they sell in the US, it's a world voltage PSU. What really drains the battery as far as I know is deleting files or other write activities. I use the NJB3 as a way to prune my library and to sample/cherrypick what friends share with me so I find I'm draining the batteries quite quickly when I'm doing a lot of pruning.

 

[gpalmer]

Well, it was a tough decision, as mentioned it seems like all the players have good and bad features but I went ahead wiith getting the Jukebox 3. Now all I need is the new Hard Drive and I'm in business!

 

[halcyon]

I'd also recommend iRiver IHP and Nomad JB3 as the most audiophile choices.

There are suspect things on the iPod (3rd gen): on Audio Precision measurements done in Hifi, it clearly lacks bass. Listening comments tell that it has almost no bass at all. It's other measured performance (THD + S/N) is also lacking compared to Iriver/NJB3.

Furthermore, it has apparently a bug in the mp3 deocoder which causes the output of a steady tone to fluctuate (i.e. percpetible fluttering). This has been covered in the aforementioned review and also in the following thread: http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/showt...threadid=67497

I'd recommend Karma, but I don't think it's at the level of IHP/NJB3, and I own Karma myself. It has other redeeming features for me (namely size).

Also, considering playback time, check out the following thread about replacment battery for IHP:

http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74847
http://www.forum.iriverlounge.com/in..._id=1&thread=1

28 hours is rouhgly 4 times the playback time of iPod and twice that of Karma.

Just some food for though.

Of course, I recommend actually evaluating the things with your own ears, if you have the chance.

regards,
halcyon

EDIT: I wrote for too long, you already ordered NJB3. Good choice!

 

[ipushplanks]

i would like to reccomend like the karma or something because after about two months of use with the njb3 the headphone jack gave me problems and eventually it just died so beware

 

[minya]

gpalmer, where'd you buy the NJB3 from?

- Chris

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by halcyon I'd also recommend iRiver IHP and Nomad JB3 as the most audiophile choices. There are suspect things on the iPod (3rd gen): on Audio Precision measurements done in Hifi, it clearly lacks bass. Listening comments tell that it has almost no bass at all. It's other measured performance (THD + S/N) is also lacking compared to Iriver/NJB3. EDIT: I wrote for too long, you already ordered NJB3. Good choice!

I don't know about that. The iHP was noticeably 'flat', and lacked dynamic range when the Line Out test was carried out. I'm not sure how that can be circumvented. The bass lack is a clear problem for the iPod. Know how to get around it? Use the ER-4S, E5 or HD25-1... or any other phone which places a (I'd guess)70 ohm + impedance across the headphone socket. With a Line Out load, it's not lacking in the lows.


Great (if huge) choice gpalmer. Upgrade to the latest firmware straight away when you get it and buy the second battery. The remote's useful for voice notes by the way.


I love how I can come back, plug this in the stereo and use it by learning remote control.

 

[pank2002]

Before the 3rd gen iPod I seriuesly planed to get the NJB3. They had this cool dock for it back then, which isn't produced anymore, with lineout, remote and pc connection. It was a real cool accessorie, too bad they ain't made no more.

So, what are you gonna do with the spare harddrive? Are you gonna put it in a labtob or sell it on ebay or something like that?

Hope you'll enjoy the player.

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by minya gpalmer, where'd you buy the NJB3 from?

Almost all of the listings I saw from the different on-line vendors through shopper.com and froogle said they had it in but they were lying. I would go to their web pages and find they weren't selling it any more. The few I saw still around were 40 GB models that were priced so high no one would buy them so they were still available. After several hours of this game, I wound up going to
Cambridge Soundworks where they had it in stock for $300. Probably not a great price but I had gotten to the point of desperation!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman Great (if huge) choice gpalmer. Upgrade to the latest firmware straight away when you get it and buy the second battery. The remote's useful for voice notes by the way.

Yup, the second battery, the leather case and the FM remote are already on their way here. I've been kicking around the idea of getting a couple extra batteries for it to keep around for when these quit on me, but the juries still out on that one and I have to make sure that I love it first. I can get the drive you mentioned bangraman for only $150 locally but I was debating with myself as to whether the $200 5400 rpm dirve might be a worthwhile upgrade. I've argued myself into believing that it won't make $50 worth of difference so I think I'll go ahead and get the $150 drive tomorrow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pank2002 So, what are you gonna do with the spare harddrive? Are you gonna put it in a labtob or sell it on ebay or something like that?

I really haven't decided what to do with it. I think I'll probably put it up for sale here and see if anyone is interested.

 

[austonia]

a favorite feature of mine, though its not discussed much, is that you can send tracks directly between 2 NJB3's over firewire cable, No PC needed. I only got to use this once when I had both the NJB3 and original Firewire Zen but it's just so damn cool. If only more people had this player....


(also, it'd be nice to be able to send more than 1 track at a time, but I guess they can't make sharing _too_ easy...)


Also I really like the Nomad series for having "nested" on-the-fly playlists.... no other brand has it.

 

[gpalmer]

Well, I'm a pretty happy camper. The NJB3 was delayed and only got here yesterday, the new drive should be here Friday. I'm using --alt preset extreme, to encode and the sound quality playback isn't bad at all for MP3s, certainly better than what I was hearing with the SB Live! audio card I have. It's definitely at a good enough level for work where it is background instead of the focus of my interest. I used the stock headphones for a bit but they got replaced by my Etymotics pretty quickly.

 

[John Reeves]

Hi,

I have a Zen Xtra and the power supply has a detachable cable between the transformer and the mains plug. If the Jukebox 3 has the same arrangement, you can simply buy an alternative cable including a UK mains plug, rather than buying a complete power supply. These are available from a shop called Maplins. Check the web for a list of addresses, they are located all over the UK. Hope this helps.
Incidental, for a few bucks you can get a battery holder, with a switch and a built in flying lead with a variety of connectors from the same shop. You then use 4 x AA NiMh batteries, which are lower voltage than regular AA's. This will charge up the built in battery. I use this arrangement, and according to a recent post, Harvey Wong of Creative stated that he uses the same setup when travelling.

Regards
John

PS Welcome to England

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Reeves Hi, I have a Zen Xtra and the power supply has a detachable cable between the transformer and the mains plug. If the Jukebox 3 has the same arrangement, you can simply buy an alternative cable including a UK mains plug, rather than buying a complete power supply. These are available from a shop called Maplins. Check the web for a list of addresses, they are located all over the UK. Hope this helps.

You're right, I just checked my NJB3 and the plug is just as you described so I checked the transformer and it is rated for 240 V operation. I will definitely take a look in Maplins for the connector. In regards to the battery holder, is it's only purpose to extend the lifetime away from a plug? I already got the second battery so in theory I have 22 hours worth of battery time which I think is enough for my purposes. I'd only be using it a few hours a day.