Help for choosing between the T1 and the HD800!
Jun 13, 2015 at 10:43 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 15

Hernium

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Ok, this might seem a bit far-fetched, but just the other day I sat down with a Stax SR-007, and I got myself enraptured by their seemly effortless and tonalically accurate reproduction of my music, especially my metal and hard rock albums, which may sound muffled when played through lesser headphones. 
 
Since the Stax rig is currently extremely out of my reach due to its price point, I will be considering one of the aforementioned headphones as a stepping stone to the Stax, and something to tide me through the long years whilst I wait, and preferably I would like a fast, effortless, accurate pair of headphones to pair with my new Schiit Vallaha 2s.
 
Sadly, it is very hard to get hold of either the Beyerdynamic T1 and the HD800s where I am, so I have to fall back on your suggestions for now. Thanks!
 
EDIT: As for my Stax 307s,I find them fast but slightly hollow, and my DT1350s muffled and constrained, so this information may allow you guys to help me make the right choice. :)
 
Jun 14, 2015 at 12:11 AM Post #3 of 15

Hernium

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  Most people prefer the HD800. But, have you considered the LCD-X or the HE-560, I'm afraid that your setup might be too bright for the HD800, at least from I've heard.

 
Oh, in that case, which amp would you recommend in the same price bracket as the Valhalla that would pair well with the HD800?
 
Jun 14, 2015 at 7:01 PM Post #5 of 15

Hernium

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Most people prefer the HD800. But, have you considered the LCD-X or the HE-560, I'm afraid that your setup might be too bright for the HD800, at least from I've heard.

And if I were to go with the HE-560s, would they pair better with my Magni 2 Uber or my Vahalla 2?
 
Jun 18, 2015 at 10:52 PM Post #7 of 15

bigfatpaulie

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IMHO you have three very different options.
 
First: Get the T1's.  They are great headphones and will likely pair well with what you have.  In time, however, you will likely sell it all off to get the Stax losing money along the way.
 
Second: Get the HD800's.  HD800 are a fickle animal and - to me - don't pair well at all with anything but the very best amps.  I don't like them with a juiced up Crack+SB+cap upgrades+tube upgrades.  That said, they are one of the best headphones around.  Period.  You could keep them and upgrade your upstream.  Maybe this will work for you, maybe not.  You will lose money along the way but less than buying the T1's.  The big caveat here is that may always still want the Stax and end up moving the 800's along anyways exacerbating the loss of money problem.
 
Third:  Good things come to those that wait.  Save for the Stax and be done with it.  It will take you longer to get them, yes, but in the end you have something you love and have saved money by skipping the intermediate steps of owning the T1's or 800's.
 
But that's how I see it.  If it were me and I was FOR SURE buying either the T1's or 800's to go with what you have and knew that I would move them along in the future I would a used pair of T1's without hesitation.  
 
Jun 19, 2015 at 12:32 AM Post #8 of 15

Hernium

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  IMHO you have three very different options.
 
First: Get the T1's.  They are great headphones and will likely pair well with what you have.  In time, however, you will likely sell it all off to get the Stax losing money along the way.
 
Second: Get the HD800's.  HD800 are a fickle animal and - to me - don't pair well at all with anything but the very best amps.  I don't like them with a juiced up Crack+SB+cap upgrades+tube upgrades.  That said, they are one of the best headphones around.  Period.  You could keep them and upgrade your upstream.  Maybe this will work for you, maybe not.  You will lose money along the way but less than buying the T1's.  The big caveat here is that may always still want the Stax and end up moving the 800's along anyways exacerbating the loss of money problem.
 
Third:  Good things come to those that wait.  Save for the Stax and be done with it.  It will take you longer to get them, yes, but in the end you have something you love and have saved money by skipping the intermediate steps of owning the T1's or 800's.
 
But that's how I see it.  If it were me and I was FOR SURE buying either the T1's or 800's to go with what you have and knew that I would move them along in the future I would a used pair of T1's without hesitation.  

 
Honestly, as a student now, the options of the HD800, T1 and even the HE-560 are already tearing a huge hole in my spending budget. As for the Stax, that will have to wait another half-decade.
 
So, it really is a matter of which of these 3 headphones will pair the best with my current set-up, and I will have to hold on to this rig for quite a long time before selling them off.
 
Hence, as far as I am concerned, the choice I am making right now will be my long-term rig, and any money lost after selling them off to make way for the Stax in the long future will be counted as rental fee. :) 
 
Jun 19, 2015 at 5:03 AM Post #9 of 15

Liu Junyuan

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As a student who has recently picked up the HD 800 (used) and who has listened to a family-member's HE 560 extensively, I may be able to offer some modest help here.
 
First, the Valhalla 2 is regarded as a great entry-level pairing with the HD 800 from those whose ears I trust. Although I own a more expensive tube amp for my HD 650s that is more on the warm, lush side, I am looking into a Valhalla 2 myself since I think it will be more suitable for the HD 800s. You can always save for a totl amp later. I am also planning on doing some simple mods (Anax 2.0) that dampen the drivers and which helps ameliorate the tendency for the HD 800's cups to produce resonance, thereby taming the brightness that is not necessarily inherent to the drivers themselves. For the Valhalla 2, an OTL amp that eschews lushness and weight for neutrality and speed, this might be a good idea.
 
The T1s should also sound well on the Valhalla 2, but they are probably going to be no less bright than the HD 800s, and indeed may be even brighter. The caveat here is that I have never heard the T1s (I do have the DT 880 600s here though). 
 
Second, the HE-560 is not going to work at all on the Valhalla 2. Your Magni 2U will make the better pairing here. The HE-560 is sort of like the HD 800s for planars, although some recent impressions are now claiming this status is even more true of the upcoming Mr. Speaker's Ether. HE-560 is highly resolving, fast on transients, has a large stage for a planar, and deploys a controlled and disciplined bass that hits deep only when the recording calls for it, featuring a tonality slightly on the brighter side of neutral. It images well but not as well as the HD 800, and its stage of course is not going to compete with the HD 800's. Yet its imaging and stage capabilities are exceptional for a planar, so you get all the benefits of the planar along with a relatively outstanding ability to analyze and separate sounds.  I think the HE-560 would benefit eventually from a different amp, but since amps for planars are becoming increasingly cheaper, you are not going to have the same issue as you will with finding the "holy grail" for the HD 800. The Gustard H10 or Schiit Lyr come to mind as outsanding amps for the HE-560 at under 500 USD.  FWIW I own the H10 and had the Lyr for a couple years (loved it). 
 
Looking at your OP, I could not find what types of music you listen to. The HE-560 and the T1 (going from what I have read extensively) may be more versatile performers. I think the HE-560 is one of the best headphones for electronic music I have heard, but also renders acoustic instruments via folk, classical, and jazz incredibly vividly. You should really hear the violin on the HE-560 for a "jaw-dropping" experience.
 
It is a commonplace here that the HD 800 only excels with classical and jazz. While these "genres" sound very nice through the HD 800, I am also liking them with other types of music. It may be more accurate to say that most well-mastered recordings will be enjoyable out of the HD 800s, so long as you appreciate its capabilites. Since I have not heard the HD 800s through an amp more suitable for them yet, I cannot make any more meaningful comparisons here.
 
If you are a student wishing to save some money, I think you might want to make your first stop the HD-6XX pairing with the Valhalla 2. It is seriously an outstanding headphone that scales well with new gear, and it will also pair nicely with the Valhalla 2. You might really not need the feel to "upgrade" for awhile after listening to this pairing. The HD 650s are hitherto my favorite headphone!
 
TLDR: The Valhalla 2 is a great starter amp for the HD 800s but will not drive the HE-560s well. For this perhaps your Magni 2U would make a better start; other, affordable amps, will make the HE-560 really sing. I lack experience with the T1 but suspect it will be more generically versatile yet equally, if not more, bright than the un-modded HD 800s. HD 6XX should not be disregarded, especially with OTL amps such as the V2.
 
Jun 19, 2015 at 10:28 AM Post #10 of 15

Hernium

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My music collection comprises of mainly jazz and the blues taking just over half of all my albums, then soft rock coming in second at around 25%, my favorite female vocalists making up the next 20%, and finally hard rock at 3-4%.
 
That was the main reason I was bewitched by the SR-007s.
 
They had the speed for the hard rock, the blackest of backgrounds for my symphonies and concertos, the spot-on timbre for vocals (especially female vocals), and I had loved every minute of my time I had with them.
 
It is a long call, but I am hoping to get some of that magic from my three shortlisted headphones now, and maybe things will be clearer to me after I go for my local meet, at which I will have the privilege to try out the HE-560 and the HD800.
 
Perhaps it is my own idealism, my high expectations of what my perfect headphone should sound like that I am forcing upon there headphones. Perhaps my impressions should be based on these headphones as the respective TOTL headphones from their companies, rather than let them be distorted by my one time with the Omega2.
 
But somehow, I can only dream of the Stax... 
 
Jun 19, 2015 at 10:43 AM Post #11 of 15

Liu Junyuan

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My music collection comprises of mainly jazz and the blues taking just over half of all my albums, then soft rock coming in second at around 25%, my favorite female vocalists making up the next 20%, and finally hard rock at 3-4%.
 
That was the main reason I was bewitched by the SR-007s.
 
They had the speed for the hard rock, the blackest of backgrounds for my symphonies and concertos, the spot-on timbre for vocals (especially female vocals), and I had loved every minute of my time I had with them.
 
It is a long call, but I am hoping to get some of that magic from my three shortlisted headphones now, and maybe things will be clearer to me after I go for my local meet, at which I will have the privilege to try out the HE-560 and the HD800.
 
Perhaps it is my own idealism, my high expectations of what my perfect headphone should sound like that I am forcing upon there headphones. Perhaps my impressions should be based on these headphones as the respective TOTL headphones from their companies, rather than let them be distorted by my one time with the Omega2.
 
But somehow, I can only dream of the Stax... 

You have been "bewitched" by the upgraditis fairies. 
very_evil_smiley.gif

 
I think the meet will answer most of your questions since nothing surpasses direct experience. However, the distracting factor of external noise and other meet conditions may render it doubly difficult to know. Bring your own music with you. Did you already order the Valhalla 2? 
 
Jun 19, 2015 at 12:16 PM Post #12 of 15

Hernium

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  You have been "bewitched" by the upgraditis fairies. 
very_evil_smiley.gif

 
I think the meet will answer most of your questions since nothing surpasses direct experience. However, the distracting factor of external noise and other meet conditions may render it doubly difficult to know. Bring your own music with you. Did you already order the Valhalla 2? 

 
Ah, I think I was a bit misleading when I said "my new Vahalla 2". I had been eyeing them for quite a while now, and was ready to pull the trigger on them, but now I'm not so sure...
 
Also, if possible, I would really like to just spend my budget on just a pair of headphones this year, and leave any due upgrades of my amplifier to next year.
 
 
 
P.S Looking back at my earlier post, I may have come across as a deluded individual through my ravings over the SR-007 
tongue_smile.gif

 
Jun 19, 2015 at 12:25 PM Post #13 of 15

Liu Junyuan

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Ah, I think I was a bit misleading when I said "my new Vahalla 2". I had been eyeing them for quite a while now, and was ready to pull the trigger on them, but now I'm not so sure...
 
Also, if possible, I would really like to just spend my budget on just a pair of headphones this year, and leave any due upgrades of my amplifier to next year.
 
 
 
P.S Looking back at my earlier post, I may have come across as a deluded individual through my ravings over the SR-007 
tongue_smile.gif

It's okay, but I am still confused.  Are you saying that you already own a Valhalla 2 or that you have been "eyeing" one up"? Here you use the pronoun "them" in the phrase "eyeing them up" which indicates plural, and I am not sure if you mean headphones or the amp. If you already own the amp and do not want to spend more on an amp, then a nice dynamic driver will probably be best; HE-560s on that amp are out of the question. 
 
Jun 19, 2015 at 12:49 PM Post #14 of 15

Hernium

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  It's okay, but I am still confused.  Are you saying that you already own a Valhalla 2 or that you have been "eyeing" one up"? Here you use the pronoun "them" in the phrase "eyeing them up" which indicates plural, and I am not sure if you mean headphones or the amp. If you already own the amp and do not want to spend more on an amp, then a nice dynamic driver will probably be best; HE-560s on that amp are out of the question. 

 
Oh dear. It has been a while since my last grammar slip up. I do take pride in my English. I am embarrassed. 
tongue.gif

 
What I meant was that I have had the intent to purchase the Vahalla 2, and my current amp is the Magni 2 Uber. 
 
In this case, assuming I stick with my Magni 2U, would the HE-560s be a viable option then?
 
Jun 19, 2015 at 3:55 PM Post #15 of 15

goobicii

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get lcd 2 late pre fazor one.... used around 500 and then buy gustard h 10 amp..... for 800 money it will destroy the bassless t1 and hd800

pre fazor lcd have most accurate reproduction of low bass,he 1000,sr-009...lcd 3 & x are all inferior...the 30hz square wave actualy looks like square wave and not this curved fail that all other headphones spit out
 

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