Eh... the problem with that for me is that there isn't one nearby, it'll be an all-day outing. Besides that, they're probably not going to let me bring my laptop and spend several hours hooking up different stuff to it, and certainly not do that and then leave without buying anything. Without being able to do that I don't think I'll get any answers. I don't really trust these sorts of shops to demo stuff honestly: they're in the business of trying to sell the more expensive equipment so they have a vested interest in making the cheaper stuff sound slightly worse than it's capable of.
Help. Bought new headphones; everything is spiders. I don't know if I know what I want.
- Thread starter goosebill
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ProtegeManiac
Headphoneus Supremus
Where exactly are you? My brother was looking for headphones years and years ago and I found one through the internet (I checked Grado's dealer network) smack behind his college campus. I was on the other side of the Pacific at the time and I actually found several within 50miles.
Depending on the store, for the most part stores actually do let you try out stuff because that's precisely how they can make a sale. If they stop doing that then they basically are paying for the location while still losing out on how Amazon and Schiit lets you return items if you don't like them.
Also, they can't stop you from leaving - if you aren't stealing anything they have no right to detain you and that counts for illegal detention.
I don't see how they can do that especially if you'll have control over the source material, apart from salesmen talking up the stuff that will get them bigger commissions. If you're not highly susceptible to suggestion then this is not a problem.
> Where exactly are you?
Rural New England. The closest major city is probably Boston, but whether I drive myself and try to find parking or I take the train, I'm looking at like ~$20 and 2-4 hours round trip, not counting how much time I spend at the place itself.
> I actually found several within 50miles
Yeah well I guess it depends on your definition but I don't consider 50 miles to be "nearby".
> Also, they can't stop you from leaving
I'm aware of that, I meant that if they know I have no (or little) intention of buying anything there then they're very unlikely to put any real effort into helping me. I know how sales works, at some point they're going to realize I'm just using them for research and they're going to politely kick me out.
> especially if you'll have control over the source material
Therein lies the rub. I don't spend any time at boutique electronics places, but those that I've been in usually have everything but the headphones themselves hidden inside the wall.
It's not just a case of "find a place I can get to", it's "find a place generous enough to let me waste a few hours of their time for free", and that's a lot harder.
Rural New England. The closest major city is probably Boston, but whether I drive myself and try to find parking or I take the train, I'm looking at like ~$20 and 2-4 hours round trip, not counting how much time I spend at the place itself.
> I actually found several within 50miles
Yeah well I guess it depends on your definition but I don't consider 50 miles to be "nearby".
> Also, they can't stop you from leaving
I'm aware of that, I meant that if they know I have no (or little) intention of buying anything there then they're very unlikely to put any real effort into helping me. I know how sales works, at some point they're going to realize I'm just using them for research and they're going to politely kick me out.
> especially if you'll have control over the source material
Therein lies the rub. I don't spend any time at boutique electronics places, but those that I've been in usually have everything but the headphones themselves hidden inside the wall.
It's not just a case of "find a place I can get to", it's "find a place generous enough to let me waste a few hours of their time for free", and that's a lot harder.
LNuneek
500+ Head-Fier
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It is a fool's errand, if he's not having any issues with hearing in general, why go see a doctor about it? They do mostly check to see if you are hearing in the audible voice range so you can communicate. Check that you're not deaf! That's about it!
Also, jumping from, "I don't like the way this headphone sounds" to "you may need a doctor to ascertain if you can hear audiophile intricacies" is quite the leap, especially when that is not what they do! Come on now! LOL
To the OP, try some different types of headphones/earphones with different sound signatures. I know it's a PITA, but with time you will figure out what you like!
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LNuneek
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How did you like the SOUND of the Koss Portapro/Sportapro?
The kind of headphones you mention having issue with are terrible when it comes to clarity in general and are just not good sounding in anyway, so it's understandable you aren't satisfied with how they sound.
Like I mentioned before, really take your time and try to test different sets with different sound profiles, and eventually you will figure out what YOU really like. Don't pay attention to what other audiophiles rave about, and needing "balanced" this or whatever phrases we throw around. You might like a bit of a V shaped response if the overall clarity is there. You might like something a little mid or high tilted, you might like something really balanced. Try em out and let your ears do the deciding.
ProtegeManiac
Headphoneus Supremus
1. Freeway speed limit is 60mph, Fridays and Saturdays aren't as congested as weekdays; Sundays are better but shops might be closed.
2. I didn't exactly send him everywhere to all those shops within 50miles. I input the search radius on Grado's site as 50 miles because of #1. But then actually found one right behind his campus. I'm saying at least check with some brands' dealer locators because you never know until you do.
3. If there is one, start weighing options - $20 and a few hours listening at a place not your house, or buy one, listen at your house, not like it, ship it back paying for shipping and pay repacking fees, repeat ad infini....oh, wait, you can't. There was a guy who bought and returned 20 headphones, then Amazon suspended his account, even for other items.
Yeah but how exactly would they know you won't be buying anything? Yes, there are bad salesmen that are too hardsell or the exact opposite (ie, you didn't strut in with a Jaguar while on your way to the ****ry club, they assume you can't afford anything), but unless a shop's staff are particularly infamous for these, you can't know until you get there.
Or, you know, listen to several hypotheses here, try them and several headphones and other stuff one at a time, paying return shipping and repacking fees, etc.
Audiophile stores allow you to bring your own CDs or now, given USB DACs, your own laptop.
If you don't even know what places you can find you can get to then how do you know which of these places are not generous enough to let you try some of the stuff so you will potentially buy something from them? I mean they won't even need you to hand over a driver's license out of fear you'd crash their merchandise.
In the end, you'd have to either look around a little bit, then either really find nothing or just not try, at which point you'd have to just buy-ship back-buy something else, losing money at each step. Not going either way and staying where you are is...well, as you say...
How are you absolutely sure he has no issues in general? How do you think I know about hearing aids with corrective EQ like corrective lenses? My friend had no idea that there was something wrong with one of his ears - he just thought people weren't talking properly. Then at some point during a more general check up his physician noticed it and sent him to an ENT.
And he's not deaf. Equating all hearing issues to be either "totally OK" or "completely deaf" would be like me not going to an opthalmologist until I have cataracts.
It's not because he doesn't like them. It's about how severe he describes the problem to be on those headphones. And it started also under the assumption that he might get it done with a call to his health insurance, the same way my friend walked out of his physician's office and straight to the ENT's a few floors away without even making a phone call.
if anything, what Ive learned is too many people have horrible health care, but in all likelihood you probably voted against any attempts to improve it, seeing as how November 2016 turned out.
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Oh, jeeze... hell if I remember, this was like back in the 90's or something I think.
Is that true for the Sennheiser HD558? Because "clarity" was one of the big things I wanted and people suggested the 558 to me on that basis. I know they're on the cheap end relative to audiophile gear, but I was under the impression they were supposed to be fairly decent in absolute terms.
Yeah, unfortunately it's looking like this is probably my only option at this point. I still don't know What I'm supposed to be listening for or what exactly my problem with the 558s is though, but those aren't questions that other people can answer I guess.
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You don't know Boston
And anyway, I still have to GET to the freeway. That alone is like half the trip.
I dunno that it's really all that severe, it's just........ like, I don't know what I'm supposed to be expecting? I thought I'd be able to hear some kind of obvious improvement somewhere, but I just don't. If anything, they're kinda worse. The foggy boomy whatever-it-is makes listening to people talking (especially guys) really taxing on my ears after a few minutes. Using an EQ and dropping everything below 100 through the floor helps, but there's still something else I can't get rid of.
What kind of music do you like? Can you post the details of one of your favourite tracks here?
ProtegeManiac
Headphoneus Supremus
You don't know Boston
And anyway, I still have to GET to the freeway. That alone is like half the trip.
Well it takes me 2hrs to get to downtown where the audio stores here are from the suburbs. You're really just gonna have to suck up the return shipping and repacking fees then, there's really no way out of this otherwise.
On a side note, if you're in a rural area, why bother with headphones? Urban environments shifted over to headphones because of lack of space and shared walls. If you live that far out I'm imagining you live in an area where you can get tortured in your living room and the nearest neighbours would barely hear anything, and if that's the case, might as well get speakers.
You're probably setting the volume too high to try and hear more of the treble (which again could be due to something other than the headphones, including age-related upper frequency hearing loss), but since that also boosts everything else, you're getting that.
Return the HD558 and try any of these instead. At the very least, if you didn't like those even after some tweaking, people can have a better idea on what you could try next.
https://www.amazon.com/Grado-Presti...8&qid=1501041864&sr=8-1&keywords=Grado+SR225e
https://www.amazon.com/Philips-SHP9...d=1501041098&sr=8-1&keywords=Philips+SHP9500S
As for your expectations...if you really want more of a "WOW!!!" effect, you'll have to get speakers, that way you can get a real 3D image in-room (assuming your room's acoustic issues are dealt with). Even the headphones that do imaging best can't overcome physics - they're just right there on your head and can't image a bigger soundstage than within the area in front around the sides and front of the head, further complicated by how each ear hears only one driver (ie with speakers you hear both speakers in the room with both ears, which helps with imaging).
Or you need to EQ with less tweaks on the amplitude but hit a wider swathe of the frequencis, like, use a low shelf EQ with the "center" freq at around 500hz to 800hz. It's equally about where you cut as much as it is by how much. You're probably not even hitting the upper bass/lower midrange.
Also how do they fit on your head? If they're somewhat tight you need to loosen the clamp a bit - on metal frame headbands it's just a matter of bending the metal part (but careful with the plastic parts).
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Anything and everything honestly. Rap, country, classical, dubstep, etc. About half of what I listen to isn't music- there are a lot of technical recordings of things like heartbeat murmurs and birdsongs and stuff, also a lot of podcasts. Whatever I'm hearing, I'm hearing across the board on everything.
As for details, I'm not sure what you're looking for. If you're looking for a track to explain the "foggy/boomy" thing there are a couple youtube videos I can find that are good examples. (I used youtube's API to download the raw movie data so I can extract the audio).
Other people in an old house with thin walls. I can get away with open-back headphones but speakers are dicey.
I don't think that's it. 15-20% is comfortable volume with the HD558s for most things. I can kill the bass and boost the treble all I want, but it just sounds weirder, not really better.
Well, like, if I nuke the 50 and 150 it sounds better to an extent, but if I start to drop like the 300 or 600 it sounds real weird real quick. The best I can get is killing everything below ~200, and then bumping stuff in the 1k-15k range a little, but I can't quite seem to get the right combination. Band width may very well be the issue, none of my programs let me control that. I'm looking into getting a Window box running so I can put 'foobar' on it.
Poor soundstage/imaging is not my problem, it's that the HD558s sound foggy and boomy.
They're acceptable. Not super tight, but could be better. Although you need to take this statement in context: I want super low clamping pressure, the lowest I can get without having them fall off when I turn my head.
If you want pure clarity without spending 4 figures, see if you can't find the Koss ESP950+amp for $600, or a similar, basic Stax rig. You might need a better digital converter though, as your computer's output will still be relatively awful as a source for such set-ups.
ProtegeManiac
Headphoneus Supremus
Well on the upside shipping smaller items like headphones would be cheaper.
Well volume setting isn't all that telling of actual output level in dB unless others can compare the same laptop on the same headphone, the same way at 50% throttle angle on a Lamborghini isn't going to get you the same engine speed (rpm) and actual vehicle speed (kph) as 50% throttle on a Camry. With 99dB sensitivity on newer, too high gain recordings, 20% setting on a Mac for all we know can be spitting out 87dB.
You'd have more control with Equalizer APO since that really lets you type in whatever freq you want to deal with, unlike Foobar just giving you 31 preset bands.
Also, Equalizer APO works for everything playing, like YouTube and Soundcloud. Foobar only works on what you're playing using that app.
How much longer until you get it running? You might get past the return period on the headphones and pay repacking fees already, if you can return it at all. Read the terms on that. If you can't get the Windows laptop running you might as well return the HD558 as soon as possible.
I did not say it was the problem. I'm saying that 1) it will be a bonus to using speakers over headphones and 2) the "WOW factor" you're looking for can come from the imaging where it sounds like the performers are all standing in front of you.
That's what I have on my HD600 and HD330, with the metal parts of the frame bent outwards a little bit. Try the Grado SR225e and bend the metal headband flatter for most of it from the center, then fold in near the gimbals to get some of the grip back. If you get this right you reduce the circular shape of the headband that puts more pressure on the upper section of the earlobes.
> volume
Sorry I left out some info (keep forgetting what I've said to who). I meant that with my iPod earbuds I have to turn the volume up to around 40-50%, but with the HD558s it's like 15-20%. If I kill the bass (drop everything below 200) the treble on the HD558 sounds about the same overall volume as the earbuds, but that "foggyness" is still there. I know this isn't terribly useful information, I'm just saying that if it IS an EQ problem, it's not a simple one. At least I don't think.
> return
I have about another week on the HD558s. I'm trying to decide how much time and money I want to invest screwing around trying to find something else. I went into all this expecting that while the HD558s likely wouldn't be perfect, they'd at least be acceptable. However, it's becoming more apparent that "acceptable" is some mystery lurking in the depths of the jungle. I'm not spending $600 on any combination of headphones, gas, or shipping, and I don't really feel like spending a month's worth of time either.
Sorry I left out some info (keep forgetting what I've said to who). I meant that with my iPod earbuds I have to turn the volume up to around 40-50%, but with the HD558s it's like 15-20%. If I kill the bass (drop everything below 200) the treble on the HD558 sounds about the same overall volume as the earbuds, but that "foggyness" is still there. I know this isn't terribly useful information, I'm just saying that if it IS an EQ problem, it's not a simple one. At least I don't think.
> return
I have about another week on the HD558s. I'm trying to decide how much time and money I want to invest screwing around trying to find something else. I went into all this expecting that while the HD558s likely wouldn't be perfect, they'd at least be acceptable. However, it's becoming more apparent that "acceptable" is some mystery lurking in the depths of the jungle. I'm not spending $600 on any combination of headphones, gas, or shipping, and I don't really feel like spending a month's worth of time either.
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ProtegeManiac
Headphoneus Supremus
You need something that has a stronger response in the uppermidrange than in the bass range.
Well if you don't care enough you might as well return the HD558 and get your money back, even if you get nothing else to replace it.
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