[Dave_M]

My setup at the moment is cheap in ear headphones, plugged into the headphone jack on my speakers, plugged into my PC's onboard AC'97 soundcard. As bad as it sounds, its worse than you think. I think its about time for an upgrade! I've waited long enough.

I don't have stacks of money laying around, so i want to get it right 1st time. I was going to get some Senn HD555 headphones but if i ever want to upgrade them, i would feel like i wasted my money. So now i'm thinking of just going for the HD650

Do you think its worth it or should i stick with the HD555?

And if i got the HD650, would i need an amp to use them with portables and PC soundcard?

And just to make sure i understand impedance.. Is it better to have headphones with high impedance than low so it draws less current so is less likely to become distored at the source. But if the impedance is too high, you need an amp otherwise it will be too quiet.

Looking forward to hearing your wise words..

 

[go_vtec]

You will need a very capable amp to make HD650 really sing. However HD650 will still sound pretty darn good when powered by half-descent amp. HD555 is quite nice and it can be powered by mere portable devices, but I didn't really like HD555. Depending on your budget, you may want to check out other fine phones such as Grado SR-225 or HF-1, Audio Techinica ATH-A900, or even Sony MDR-CD3K or SA5K. They all sound quite different and you gotta hear them before you make a leap or commit your fund.

 

[Dave_M]

Thanks for that. I'm still leaning towards the HD650 at the moment altho i haven't heard them yet. Just so i know what to expect, would i at least be able to get by with the HD650 without an amp if pluged into a soundcard? Or would it be far too quiet. I don't like insane volume levels but fairly moderate. I've seen the prices of some headphone amps and don't think i could justify spending that much (at the moment at least

). If i got an amp its likely to be a cMoy. Probably build it myself. Do you know if they are any good? Or completly rubbish?

And is what i said about impedance correct?

 

[chrisfromalbany]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_M Thanks for that. I'm still leaning towards the HD650 at the moment altho i haven't heard them yet. Just so i know what to expect, would i at least be able to get by with the HD650 without an amp if pluged into a soundcard? Or would it be far too quiet. I don't like insane volume levels but fairly moderate. I've seen the prices of some headphone amps and don't think i could justify spending that much (at the moment at least ). If i got an amp its likely to be a cMoy. Probably build it myself. Do you know if they are any good? Or completly rubbish? And is what i said about impedance correct?

not sure what you mean by the impedance. The higher the impedence there hard it is to drive.

The HD650s will not be loud and the level of detail in the headphone will be flat. Along with the bass having less impact. I wouldn't get the HD650s with out having a good amp to drive them. Need a pretty good amp to drive them. Ever thought about just getting the HD595s or the A900s. Then getting an amp, then getting the HD650s.

 

[ken36]

Read a lot. Appreciate what you read. Go for the best you can afford. I know one head-fier that is perfectly happy with his present rig and isn't even thinking of tweaking a bit. Of course the tweaking is what makes this a lot of fun and the cost is without limits. His username is witheld (privacy act).

 

[kramer5150]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisfromalbany not sure what you mean by the impedance. The higher the impedence there hard it is to drive. The HD650s will not be loud and the level of detail in the headphone will be flat. Along with the bass having less impact. I wouldn't get the HD650s with out having a good amp to drive them. Need a pretty good amp to drive them. Ever thought about just getting the HD595s or the A900s. Then getting an amp, then getting the HD650s.

IMHO the HD650 sounds muddy and lacks dynamics under amped. For certain my guzzler gmoy cound not drive them (or the HD600 for that matter) adequately. Conjested, flat and lacked dynamics.... while the overall volume certainly was loud enough. I then plugged them into an SR71 / headroom micro DAC and the transformation was night / day.

Not sure what your price range is but IMHO you should budget ~at least $200 for a decent amp if you get either the 600 or 650. IMHO they need at least a pimeta to really do them justice.

the HD580 on the other hand, is relatively easy to drive. Although still a power-hog compared to any comparably priced grado.

Garrett

 

[Dave_M]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisfromalbany Ever thought about just getting the HD595s or the A900s. Then getting an amp, then getting the HD650s.

Thats exactly what i'm trying to avoid. I want to get just 1 headphone and be happy with it. I would choose the HD555 over the HD595 because from what i've read, they are similar but the 555 is quite alot cheaper. I'm trying to be really careful here. I've read alot from people here who have "upgrade-itas".

I have spent no real money on Hi-Fi stuff yet so i feel like i have a clean start and 1 chance to get it right. (I'm really tight with my money incase its not obvious

). I just want to spend as little money as possible so that means jumping in more at the deep end with the HD650 than upgrading.

What chance do you think i have of building my own amp that can compete with some much more expensive ones that are available? I figure if i built it to the highest spec i would end up with something pretty reasonable at a fraction of the cost.

 

[kramer5150]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_M Thats exactly what i'm trying to avoid. I want to get just 1 headphone and be happy with it. I would choose the HD555 over the HD595 because from what i've read, they are similar but the 555 is quite alot cheaper. I'm trying to be really careful here. I've read alot from people here who have "upgrade-itas". I have spent no real money on Hi-Fi stuff yet so i feel like i have a clean start and 1 chance to get it right. (I'm really tight with my money incase its not obvious ). I just want to spend as little money as possible so that means jumping in more at the deep end with the HD650 than upgrading. What chance do you think i have of building my own amp that can compete with some much more expensive ones that are available? I figure if i built it to the highest spec i would end up with something pretty reasonable at a fraction of the cost.

That depends on your skills as a builder. IMHO theres a certain "black magic" to amp building. I'm no noob to electrical work, soldering and I can read schematics. BUT it took me 3 tries to finally get a cmoy built right. Ive come to the conclusion that I just dont have the skills.... yet. So I rely on the more experienced forum builders. I bought a guzzler gmoy stuffed board for $30 and a millet hybrid for $150. Both are great amps for the $$$. I'm looking for a portable pimeta right now.

So.. certainly DIY amps can be as expensive or as frugal as you would like, depending on what components you choose. The real question mark is the build quality and reliability.

IMHO an HD580 or MS2 and pimeta would make a great budget setup

 

[-Ruin-]

Im fairly new to this website, but ill put in my .02. For the soundcard, if you even plan on getting decent quality osund, you need one. I used to have the AC97 Onboard audio too, and I hated the distortion and crackling. I picked up an Audigy 2 ZS and was blown away by its performance. Now that I have the New X-Fi there is no other way to listen to your music, games, movies.

If your interested, I have an Audigy 2 ZS that I replaced with the X-fi, so if your interested in it let me know.

As for these sound cards driving cans... Ive got some HD 515 and If I turn the volume up ALL the way, my earsa want to bleed, but it still sounds good. Out of my ignorance I am not sure if they will power the 600 series adiquatly enough to get the full enjoyment. As mentioned above, the ATH 900 cans are pretty nice. I am planning on getting some in the weeks to come after insurance is paid off. I hope I helped, if any.

 

[Dave_M]

Thanks for your input guys. I'll be starting my Electronics Engineering Degree in a couple of weeks which is going to come in handy if i want to build my own amp

I just see somthing like a headphone amp as being quite basic bit of electronics (not like trying to build speakers) and i just can't see why the high end headphone amps cost so much. I can accept that they are just better, and if people want the best, they are prepared to pay alot. But they can't be good value for money, surely. Maybe i just need to listen to one and i'll be converted instantly

 

[Dave_M]

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Ruin- Im fairly new to this website, but ill put in my .02. For the soundcard, if you even plan on getting decent quality osund, you need one. I used to have the AC97 Onboard audio too, and I hated the distortion and crackling. I picked up an Audigy 2 ZS and was blown away by its performance. Now that I have the New X-Fi there is no other way to listen to your music, games, movies.

I realized i would need a new soundcard. I would definatly not get a A2 ZS tho. I was about to get a M-Audio revolution 5.1, then i heard about the X-Fi and it got some really good reviews and because i enjoy a bit of CS and DOOM i think i'll end up with a X-Fi aswell.

 

[sgrossklass]

JFTR, it's not that you couldn't play games with the Revo 5.1 as well, but it may not be as good-sounding (in games using EAX) and you'll get a few fps less. Besides, I don't think anyone has done a direct Revo 5.1 - X-Fi XtremeMusic comparison yet. If you intend to use your new cans on a portable device without investing in an amp, better settle for middle-class cans - why not a HD595, for example?
Upgrading to the best you can afford may work, but it can also backfire, as I experienced with my first really good shortwave receiver a few years back - great rx (except that I didn't have the money to get the noise blanker / notch filter module as well), but the antenna situation still sucked since I was unable to put up my active antenna outside. Now I'm basically back to my portables for SWL (which I haven't done very frequently for a while). Maybe I'll buy a Wellbrook loop one of those days, currently I'm far too broke for a luxury like that...

 

[jagorev]

I would spend some money on upgrading your source. Try a TBAAM (Turtle Beach Audio Advantage Micro). It's cheap, plugs into your USB slot, and provides a big improvement over AC '97 audio. Slighly more expensive, you could try some of M-Audio's or Creative's Audigy USB soundcards or an Echo Indigo product if you're on a laptop. The 50 ohm HD 555 or 595 are very good headphones and will sound better than HD 650 in this setup (ie no dedicated headphone amp) because of its lower impedance. The 650 will sound weak and shallow by comparison out of a computer. A couple of other Senns, the EH 350 (formerly HD 497) and HD 485 are also good and quite a bit cheaper. Grado SR 60s and SR 80s have some fanatical followers here and will work great. Seriously - I would warn you away from the HD 580/600/650 unless you're ready to spend an equal amount of money on upgrading your source and amplification - otherwise you're just wasting your money on those phones.

 

[Dave_M]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagorev Seriously - I would warn you away from the HD 580/600/650 unless you're ready to spend an equal amount of money on upgrading your source and amplification - otherwise you're just wasting your money on those phones.

I'm glad you said that, its very important and i'm not sure i realized it untill you said it like that. Looks like i need to budget for an amp aswell

. And so the extravagant spending begins

Some headphone amps are alot more money than proper amps that have headphone jacks. Would there really be a noticeble difference in sound quality between them?

I've been looking into building a cMoy amp. I think i underestimated the complexity of it. Saying theres a certain "black magic" to amp building sounds spot on.

Could someone take a look at this amp on ebay and tell me what you think of it? thanks

 

[jagorev]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_M I'm glad you said that, its very important and i'm not sure i realized it untill you said it like that. Looks like i need to budget for an amp aswell . And so the extravagant spending begins Some headphone amps are alot more money than proper amps that have headphone jacks. Would there really be a noticeble difference in sound quality between them? I've been looking into building a cMoy amp. I think i underestimated the complexity of it. Saying theres a certain "black magic" to amp building sounds spot on. Could someone take a look at this amp on ebay and tell me what you think of it? thanks

I'm not sure about the specific CMOY you linked, but they are often acceptable. For $60 shipped, you can get the PA2V2, which is apparently preferable. I am waiting for one myself...the guy who makes them (Gary) is great to deal with:

http://www.electric-avenues.com/amplifiers.html

A portable PIMETA is $100:

http://www.rockhopperaudio.com/

The headsave Go-Vibe is $89:

http://members.shaw.ca/storage_2/headsave/

My recommendation is to get an improved sound card (preferably external) from Creative or M-Audio or Chaintech, the PA2V2, and the 50 ohm HD 555 or 595. Altogether, this combo will be considerably cheaper than a new HD 650, especially if you choose the 555 option.