[Jonone]

Hi, this is the first post so thanks for welcoming me!
Im new to headphones and i have recently tried hd25s,over ear momentums and have the denon d600 and I'm looking for some advice, they all have failings in someway or another but the denons are the best of the bunch for me, I like a bass heavy headphone but I can see the denons are a touch boomy and they are also slightly brighter than I would ultimately like, also there fit isn't perfect as there so big on my head.

I am after a full size sealed headphone that's easy to drive from IPads/iPhones, my natural progression leads me to the fostex th600, has anyone compared that to the denon d600? I'm looking for better comfort same or more depth of bass but better control, maybe slightly more forward mids and slightly more refined highs.
Or is there other recommendations?

Also another question, is the a reputable place to get the cable of the fostex terminated to a 3.5mm jack?

Thanks, I appreciated any help

 

[ceemsc]

Hi Jonone,
 
Welcome to Head-Fi
 
I own a pair of Denon ah-d600 which are my main listening headphones. I did have to EQ & tweak with my setup to reduce the Boom and enhance any recessed sounds before eventually settling down to the best sounding so far; I take it your rig has similar customisable options such as EQ, AMP etc.
 
Maybe someone more experienced than myself can comment but I find these high-end headphones are like a finely tuned racing car; great if setup correctly but awful compared to cheaper out-of-the-box street headphones if configured wrongly.
 
Best Regards,
 
Mark

 

[Jonone]

Thanks for the reply, I'm probably slightly different then most on hear in the fact that I only want to be able to use my headphones straight from a ipad/iPhone , I use iTunes / Spotify so no real access to eq, that's why it's important to me to get the right sounding headphone, fostex seem quite rare in that there a premium model with low impedance.

 

[Malfunkt]

Get CanOpener app for your iPad/iPhone. Not only will it give you the ability to try out crossfeed, it has an excellent eq so you can easily reduce the bass bloom. It is fine to use eq, and you can keep the bass for EDM type tracks and reduce for a more natural sound.

They are really smooth headphones and present themselves as if you were listening to hifi speakers. Sometimes you want the sub on or off and canopener gives you that.

 

[Jonone]

I use I tunes match so most of my music is not on my iPhone/ipad and I am guessing you have to load the music into the app? I don't think a eq app is for me because of the above but I appreciate the suggestion and agree its probably the cheapest/ most sensible option.
How do you d600 and hd 650 compare if you don't mind giving a brief comparison?
Thanks

 

[Malfunkt]

I use I tunes match so most of my music is not on my iPhone/ipad and I am guessing you have to load the music into the app? I don't think a eq app is for me because of the above but I appreciate the suggestion and agree its probably the cheapest/ most sensible option.
How do you d600 and hd 650 compare if you don't mind giving a brief comparison?
Thanks

Sure. Bit of a disclaimer I've only recently got the 650s, they are newer models with some use otherwise immaculate condition. I haven't been able to try them on a proper amp, all the integrated amps I've tried them on from Oppo, Rotel, have not been good. Really clouds up the sound, voices become muffled. Not sure what is happening. So aside from powering them directly from an iPhone, the only amp I have is a small Native Instruments Traktor Audio 2 (latest model with upgraded DAC).

That said, this little DAC/amp has been very useful as it can connect directly from PC, ipad/iPhone and has no problems sending audio from any app. Also I have an additional power supply which you can connect to so it isn't just USB powered and this helps quite a bit. Not marketed towards audiophiles, it is actually a very clean sounding DAC and using it with both the D600 and HD650 get solid results.

Denon AH-600

Pros:
- better bass than the HD650. The 650 may be a bit more controlled, but the d600 has so much presence here that it adds necessary weight and body when required. Awesome sub bass, and bass goes lower than the 650.
- exceptional fun with electronic dance music. Does surprisingly well still with some piano, pop, and instrumental pieces .
- ridiculously comfortable for medium to large head shapes. Fits my big ears just fine
- comes packaged really well. Good selection of cables one quite high end
- really good isolation

Cons
- not neutral in is presentation, sometimes can sound distant or a bit artificial. Bass can be overly present in some genres and unrealistic. Can be tamed with EQ

General observation
- the tuning of this can is such that you can crank the volume listening to electronic music tracks, getting an energetic performance that is virtually fatigue free.
- can be powered easily from an iPhone. In my experience, with my limited setup, performance does improve a bit with an amp. Noticeably the energy from all eh frequency range remains more coherent and the bass slightly more controlled and impactful. Not noticeable all the time, and I'd say the d600 runs fine right of the iPhone
- great for watching movies, where for many mainstream productions, bass and orchestra play key parts of a soundtrack. You can get gain on volume without it being fatiguing.
- I enjoy this headphone. You get a sense that it has some solid technicalities masked a bit by a purposely designed home theatre style frequency curve. Really good for gaming as well
- also the soundstage on this headphone maybe be comparable or even better than the hd650 despite being closed. I've had other closed cans (srh840,MDR-1r, Sony v600,7506,k271) and this one takes the cake with the MDR-1r being quite good and better than the d600 In some respects but can't compete in bass depth.

I wrote some impressions here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/720330/minor-headphone-battle-amperior-vs-ah-d600-vs-mdr-ex600
Also, check out the recent review from Jude in the a Summer 2014 buyers guide.

Hd650

This is much more balanced headphone. Transients and details are presented quite well. Bass is still very good. I had a pair of hd555s a long time back, and this has that sennheiser sound, except more realistic in timbre, more respectable. I think this is going to be an excellent headphone and I'm already planning on improving my DAC and amp a bit to see what gains I can get with it. Compared to some high-end speaker setups, it does seem to lack a bit of sparkle on the high end. Not sure if this is good or or bad though. Perhaps this is the veil some speak of.

The d600s are more comfortable and they are holding their own. I've debated selling them, but they are the best bass performers of the headphones I've owned. They have a certain quality to them. And they can be great fun whether rocking out, head dancing or relaxing to ambient. Very good cans, and quite unique. If someone's favourite music was electronic (drum n bass, techno, house, dub step, ambient, idm) this would be my top recommendation.

 

[Jonone]

Thanks for taking the time to write that, I appreciate it, I also have hd25 so those opinions are relevant to me as well.
I also dj with traktor,I use the echo audiofire2 sound card and I know the traktor audio sound card, I believe we'll implemented electronics i.e dacs and sound cards are translutent, its all in the transducer in my eyes.

 

[Malfunkt]

I have to update my impressions.

Basically what I've come to realize that using the little Traktor DAC with the HD650, although seemingly clear, just has nowhere near enough juice for the HD650. I tried running the Traktor Audio DJ directly into the Rotel RA-01 again and the results were much better.

Perhaps my contacts weren't clear last time or I didn't give it enough time. Whatever it is I can tell you that HD650 just kicks some serious arse. I'm pretty sure I could have better amplification, but as it stands right now the bass gets much closer to the AH-D600, it just doesn't have the sub bass extension that the D600 has, but has way tighter bass and more slam to it.

Quite impressed. The balance is better overall. The D600 is still great and sounds good without an amp. The d600 is well suited for electronic music but so is the Hd650.

 

[Jonone]

Well funny enough lately I have been demoing some cans in the hope of finding something to meet my criteria, for me in the scheme of things the only real problem i have with the d600 is the recessed mids which gives it a slightly thin harsh sound compared to my speakers and other headphones like the hd25 etc.
I have tried the( audition 1) =hd25, over ear momentum, b&w p7, nad hp50, (audition 2) =beyer t51p,fostex 600, fostex 900, oppo pm1, ultrasone edition 8 and probably others.....
The guy who makes my speakers uses headphones and the highest grade recordings of classical and instruments made by a bbc/industry friend, they both say the hd650 voice is probably the most accurate and as good as your get, which I know others will disagree with but I trust there judgement.
All of the above have there problems, and none of them I thought ultimately better then the d600 considering price,comfort or sound. taking into consideration the advice given i also asked for the hd650 to be set up against the cans in (audition2) and I honestly thought the hd650 was the best sounding bar missing the lowest bass. It's got a full midrange and such a smooth top end but with still lots of detail but fatigue free.
It's not perfect as I would like more sub bass, its open and I would need an amp, but I can see how it's a can I should/ will own.
The only other can i can think of is the jvc dx1000, which seems from the discription on here to be more what im after but I'm worried in reality it won't sound much different/better then the d600, the graphs point to that as you can see the similarity between the jvc,fostex and denons.
So it's a toss up between keeping the d600 and buying the hd650 and O2 amp or trying the jvc?

 

[Malfunkt]

Jonome, what music do you like listening to?

I'm seriously considering getting a Schiit Asgard 2 or perhaps just the Magni. I just fixed my DAC today a Steinberg UR22 but the headphone jack doesn't cut it, although at first listening it seems like it has enough punch to it, after a while every track sounds the same on the HD650. Sounds like everything has the same processing and mastering. This isn't the case using the Rotel at least not to to this degree. The Rotel may cloud up the sound a bit.

Tried the Hd650 on a cheap Berhiger studio mixer for fun which works fine for gigs. It's headphone out is just awful. If one didn't know these headphone had to be matched with quality gear it would be easy to mistake these headphones as poor.

As it stands though, even right now just out of my Rotel, these are the best headphones I have.its the first time I've had a headphone that really required proper amplification to sound its best.

I agree with your description of the D600. It's a strange phone.

You kinda have to go through the experience of hearing these different cans and testing them out. I'm sure one day I'll hear a can that is better than the hd650 and think "why didn't I just get these to begin with". I probably should unload of at least one headphone and it maybe it will be the Amperior (just cause they are in such good condition and I'm very happy with the HD25) and then the D600 will replace them at the office (which they'll still get plenty of use).

 

[Jonone]

I listen to all genres but a lot of electronic based music now a days, on there own the d600 sound pretty good and there comfort and price i paid make them a bargin,its only in comparisons you really notice the recessed mids and the perfectionist in me knows I should change that.
I compared the ones i had at home to my speakers using them as a reference, my fist headphone i owned was the hd25 and there pretty damn good, just a bit harsher then my speakers when compared, but the clamping force was to much so they had to go.
I'm sure from what ive heard the hd650 will be closest in sound to my speakers but maybe missing the lowest bass as I have a sub.
Im in the camp that all dac's sound the same if there implemented properly and the one in an iPhone/ipad is as good as your get, so if a headphone has low enough impedance to be driven by an I device I'm done IMO, other wise if you need more juice an amp like the O2 that measures properly is all you need to drive a headphone like the hd650. To me its headphone or speaker that varies in sound and the bit to choose right......all my opinion and I'm not really interested in debating it!

 

[shiorisekine]

If I may I would like to put in my 2 cents.

The HD650 isnt very balanced at all, it is very veiled however it has a lot potential. By that I mean if it gets a lot it will open up. Compared to the D600 its not every balanced.

Now onto your original question, is the TH600 a good up grade for you, the answer is yes and no. The TH600 would be a good upgrade and would fix everything that the D600 seems to fault in however i think you should look into the Mad Dogs Pro considering you like EDM/Electronica.

Best,

Andre

 

[Jonone]

Thanks Andre, I appreciate the input, ill try and hear the mad dogs.....don't know where?
I brought and sold the fostex 600, taking the money in to concideration i didn't find them any better then the denons, in fact I think they where slightly harsher sounding and thinner. The denons sounded less bright and seemed like they have a touch more mid bass/ lower midrange which I prefer, I was hoping the 600 would be the ones!
I also tried the 900 and they were better, really punchy and dynamic but again just a bit to harsh/ bright up top and its enough to put me of for the price.

I'm not arguing about the 650 but they are ruler flat through the bass/ midrange but they don't have a peaky treble spike, what I heard I liked and I trust the advice of the person who recommended them, I just ultimately didn't want to get evolved with an amp etc.

I'm still thinking about the jvc, someone quoted it as being like if the old denon's had a baby with the hd 650!

 

[Malfunkt]

Got a chance at a local meet to hear my HD-650s through a High-end DAC and amps (Crack / Mainline). The Mainline was awesome and so was the Crack. The real surprise was how good the D600s sounded out of the mainline and through the DAC. Seemed to bring more authority throughout the range. Even listening to the HD-650 and HD-800 (incredible headphones), the Denons had such a rich bass, and still had good technicalities. They do have some weird peaks, deliberately so.
 
As far as balance, I have to disagree with Shiorisekine, in saying the HD650s 'aren't very balanced at all' or 'compared to the D600 is not very balanced'. Looking at the frequency curves, gives you a good idea of what you are getting with the 650. The majority of the frequency curve is well represented, with the sub-bass and highs being rolled off. Still, I could pull off a mixdown with the HD650s but attempting that on the D600 would not be balanced. The 650s are closer to studio monitor speakers which is the main reason I purchased them.
 
The D600 however, does represent the lower range very well, and I've gained more appreciation for this headphone having now heard them through highend amps.
 
Anyhow, I can see myself ensuring I have headphones that represent these two directions - one orientated to neutrality and another towards 'fun' with an emphasis on bass reproduction.
 
Also, I don't think I'll be investing thousands into amps or DACs anytime soon, but I'm definitely on the hunt for an amp that I can use for both HD-650 and AH-D600.

 

[Jonone]

Good post post! This is probably all you need, it's what I would try!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Epiphany-Acoustics-EHP-O2-Headphone-Amplifier-Black/dp/B00G2DK52W