[Covenant]

I'm still researching what components would work best with my planned setup for early next year (when i hope to have as good a headphone setup as can be had for under $8k, with my sonic preferences and some concessions to convenience), and am wondering about the amp side of things.

The elements i've already decided on are:

iBook w/apple lossless > Wavelength Audio Cosecant USB DAC > BMC Pinnacle Gold ICs > {insert amp here} > SA5K's.

The BMCs i know impart a "warm" coloration to the sound, which would be beneficial in adding musicality to the SA5K's speed and detail methinks. So the amp, while preferably "slightly" on the warm side of neutral also, doesn't need to impart too much euphonic coloration there. What it mostly needs to accomplish is increasing the bass response, soundstage, detail and smoothness of the SA5K's, to bring everything to a refined, harmonious whole.

Previously i had an MPX3 allocated for this job, with the following upgrades:

*Jupiter PIO caps (reccomended over the Jensen's by Wavelength Audio's head designer, Gordon)
*Black Gate cathode caps
*Black Gate power cap
*Solen stage 3
*Plitron power transformer
*Cardas RCA connectors

Which is going quite a bit all-out on the upgrades of that unit, and streching the potential of its inherent design about as far as it can go. The overall sound with this sort of setup would be somewhat dark, but the silver wiring wouldn't really be a good balance, methinks - there's no real point in warming the sound with BMCs, then "cooling" it again with silver wire. It'll just add to overall distortion, and i can live with a little darkness when using SA5K's.

But i've been thinking, since this set of upgrades is pushing the MPX3 past the Supra's price anyway, it might be a better idea to go for the big brother with a more minimal set of upgrades. I read in a few reviews that the circuit design in the Supra is extremely "pure", with very short signal paths and little colouration introduced, as opposed to the slightly longer signal path of the MPX3. Not being a technician, i have no idea of the truth or validity of either claim, but it got me thinking.

What about a Supra with the following:

*Black Gate power cap
*Black Gate cathode cap
*PIO caps (not sure which to select here. Mikhail reccomends the "V-Cap" over the Jupiter's, though i have no idea what a V-Cap is).
I'm also unsure of the "High frequency bypass caps" and the "Audio Note silver foil oil coupling cap" - the latter looks particularly intriguing, but that may just be the $749 price tag

So, my question is twofold: With my preferences in mind, and with an eye towards a very capable amp that'll be able to drive more or less any headphone under $2k (but especially the SA5Ks), which set of upgrades would bring out the most performance from the Supra, and how would a thus-equipped Supra compare against the MPX3?

Cheers all.

 

[Sleestack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Covenant I'm still researching what components would work best with my planned setup for early next year (when i hope to have as good a headphone setup as can be had for under $8k, with my sonic preferences and some concessions to convenience), and am wondering about the amp side of things. The elements i've already decided on are: iBook w/apple lossless > Wavelength Audio Cosecant USB DAC > BMC Pinnacle Gold ICs > {insert amp here} > SA5K's. The BMCs i know impart a "warm" coloration to the sound, which would be beneficial in adding musicality to the SA5K's speed and detail methinks. So the amp, while preferably "slightly" on the warm side of neutral also, doesn't need to impart too much euphonic coloration there. What it mostly needs to accomplish is increasing the bass response, soundstage, detail and smoothness of the SA5K's, to bring everything to a refined, harmonious whole. Previously i had an MPX3 allocated for this job, with the following upgrades: *Jupiter PIO caps (reccomended over the Jensen's by Wavelength Audio's head designer, Gordon) *Black Gate cathode caps *Black Gate power cap *Solen stage 3 *Plitron power transformer *Cardas RCA connectors Which is going quite a bit all-out on the upgrades of that unit, and streching the potential of its inherent design about as far as it can go. The overall sound with this sort of setup would be somewhat dark, but the silver wiring wouldn't really be a good balance, methinks - there's no real point in warming the sound with BMCs, then "cooling" it again with silver wire. It'll just add to overall distortion, and i can live with a little darkness when using SA5K's. But i've been thinking, since this set of upgrades is pushing the MPX3 past the Supra's price anyway, it might be a better idea to go for the big brother with a more minimal set of upgrades. I read in a few reviews that the circuit design in the Supra is extremely "pure", with very short signal paths and little colouration introduced, as opposed to the slightly longer signal path of the MPX3. Not being a technician, i have no idea of the truth or validity of either claim, but it got me thinking. What about a Supra with the following: *Black Gate power cap *Black Gate cathode cap *PIO caps (not sure which to select here. Mikhail reccomends the "V-Cap" over the Jupiter's, though i have no idea what a V-Cap is). I'm also unsure of the "High frequency bypass caps" and the "Audio Note silver foil oil coupling cap" - the latter looks particularly intriguing, but that may just be the $749 price tag So, my question is twofold: With my preferences in mind, and with an eye towards a very capable amp that'll be able to drive more or less any headphone under $2k (but especially the SA5Ks), which set of upgrades would bring out the most performance from the Supra, and how would a thus-equipped Supra compare against the MPX3? Cheers all.

I can only go on what Miikhail advised me. I ended up ordering an MPX3 in a configuration that was well over $2K. I'm sure each has its own sound signature and strengths. Part of the reason I went with the MPX3 was also its smaller size.

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleestack I can only go on what Miikhail advised me. I ended up ordering an MPX3 in a configuration that was well over $2K. I'm sure each has its own sound signature and strengths. Part of the reason I went with the MPX3 was also its smaller size.

Try not to quote my entire post there, it doesn't really do much but take up alot of space

But yeah, size isn't too much of an issue for me. My MPX3 configuration would be well over $2k as well, but then the Supra wouldn't be much more than that (unless i go with those Audio Note's, may have to bug Gordon some more about those). In the end, i want something i can be completely happy with, with no niggling (if i had paid a little bit more...) doubts.

 

[dshea_32665]

Covenant, sorry for my brief OT, but you should do a review of the Wavelength Cosecant USB DAC on the Dedicated Sources Forum. I think you are the first head-fier that I have noticed who has one of these.

Can't help you with amp advice as you are in a whole different league with your equipment. We will live vicariously.

dshea

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dshea_32665 Covenant, sorry for my brief OT, but you should do a review of the Wavelength Cosecant USB DAC on the Dedicated Sources Forum. I think you are the first head-fier that I have noticed who has one of these. Can't help you with amp advice as you are in a whole different league with your equipment. We will live vicariously. dshea

I certainly intend to - when i get one

I don't have the Cosecant yet, still need to do some saving for that one. But after researching the available market as extensively as i could, and emailing Gordon till i'm sure he's sick of the sight of my name in his inbox, i decided that's definitely the source i'll be going for, and will post impressions as soon as i finally buy mine and have had some time to grow acquainted with its sound quality.

 

[Covenant]

So no one has any oppinions to give me?

 

[tom hankins]

I would talk to Mikhail and see which amp would best work for your preferences. I prefer the Supra over the MPX3, but have not heard an MPX3 maxed out as far as your talking. I find the Supra more refined and detailed through out the frequency range.
It looks like a win/win situation to me. No matter which amp you get.

 

[Hirsch]

The tradeoff between Supra and MPX is one of detail vs. dynamics, at least in the earlier amps. In the original versions, the main difference is in the power supply and the power provided to the tubes. The Supra power supply is ultra-stable, as opposed to the MPX-3, which is only extremely stable

Either one is overbuilt, but the Supra is more overbuilt. The MPX-3 runs the tubes at a higher voltage, but lower current. This can increase the dynamic impact, but reduce microdetail. The Supra runs the tubes at a lower voltage but higher current. This maximizes detail retrieval, but may not have quite as much "punch" when it comes to dynamics. The trade-off is necessary because the tubes need to be run within certain plate dissipation parameters. Voltage and current determine plate dissipation. If you try and increase both, you hit the limits of the tube, and tube life goes down. Mikhail likes to work well within the limits of the tube, to preserve the life span of the tube, so the choice of base amp should probably be made on which side of the dynamics/detail trade-off is more important to you. Note that I'm not talking large differences here. The Supra can be a very dynamic amp, and the MPX-3 has loads of detail, but this is the key trade-off in the designs as I understand them. If dynamics are your key consideration, then the MPX-3 would be the amp to use as a base, and maximize it accordingly. If microdetail and finesse are your key considerations, then the Supra should be your base amp. Either can be modified as you wish, but that's the main difference between the amps.

 

[Covenant]

Sweet, thanks for that info Hirsch. That makes me lean more toward the Supra side of things than the MPX3 - a very refined, detailed, controlled, and accurate presentation strikes me as a little more ideal than one with more focus on dynamics. Of course i realise that that's all relative, and both amps are strong in both departments.

Which bodes the question, how best to configure the Supra to make optimal use of its potential? Hmm.

 

[HugoFreire]

This question often comes up when someone is looking for a good Singlepower amp, and Hirsch's reply has been the most informative/helpful one so far.
Thanks, Hirsch!

 

[PhilS]

Hirsch gave a very good explanation (as usual). I faced the same decision about a year ago, and ended up going with a stock Supra instead of a heavily upgraded MPX3. FWIW, I have been extremely pleased. I have also found that with the Supra in the chain you can experiment and get any additional dynamics you want want by experimenting with your source. You really can't go wrong either way, though, and as others have suggested, Mikhails advice could also be helpful, as he can tell you what might work best with other components in your system, your music tastes, etc.

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS Hirsch gave a very good explanation (as usual). I faced the same decision about a year ago, and ended up going with a stock Supra instead of a heavily upgraded MPX3. FWIW, I have been extremely pleased.

That's good to know, PhilS. The mods i was looking at for the MPX3 was pushing it way past stock Supra price, so it made sense to make the comparison. I think going straight for the better design with minimal tweaking would be a better alternative to going for a slightly inferior design and trying to tweak the hell out of it to push it past its "comfort zone", as it were.

...the problem is, if i had the moolah in the bank account right now, i'd go straight for the SDS

Damn Head-Fi to eternal damnation.