Hearing loss prevention
Mar 16, 2012 at 4:54 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 52

mac336

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Just wondering if any of you guys have some tips on minimizing hearing damage from listening to headphones.  I mainly listen low to moderate volumes, but sometimes you just want to turn them up.  The other day I woke up with ringing in my ears.  Now I am paranoid.  I'm forcing myself to stay away from headphones and loud music for a couple of days.
 
Mar 16, 2012 at 6:39 PM Post #2 of 52
I never turn it up to high volume, don't listen to music outside of my house, enjoy the sounds of nature and you have to turn up volume to dangerous levels due to external noise.
 
Mar 16, 2012 at 6:49 PM Post #3 of 52
Here's what I do cuz I'm somewhat paranoid of this too cuz I'd hate to have chronic tinnitus:
 
- Only listen at home or other places where there's no excessive background noise (the more silent environment the better)
- Use a fixed volume level, the lowest possible that "satisfies" you. I find that during morning I often tend to find the volume to be higher compared to during the day/evening as I've gotten used to the volume level. Just use that exact same volume level all the time no matter what, if you get used to a constant same volume level it avoids you turning up your music too loudly, for me it's certainly like this, I even don't enjoy listening more to a higher volume than what I'm used to anymore
- Take some silent breaks every now and then 
- Find the headphone with the right frequency response balance for your taste; I'm a basshead by picking up a headphone that has a bass emphasize to begin with avoids me turning up the volume to get the bass quantity I'm looking for (as that also raises the volume for the high pitched frequencies which are even more dangerous)
 
Mar 16, 2012 at 6:51 PM Post #4 of 52
My rule of thumb is to listen at volumes similar to normal vocal conversations. If the background noise permits, even softer. Never louder.
 
Mar 16, 2012 at 7:10 PM Post #5 of 52
 
Quote:
- Find the headphone with the right frequency response balance for your taste; I'm a basshead by picking up a headphone that has a bass emphasize to begin with avoids me turning up the volume to get the bass quantity I'm looking for (as that also raises the volume for the high pitched frequencies which are even more dangerous)


This, right here, is exactly the recommendation I was going to make.  When one is cranking up the volume to "find" the frequencies they're looking for bad things are bound to happen.
 
Mar 16, 2012 at 7:21 PM Post #6 of 52
Use IEMs if you're on the go, and try some triple flange tips. They isolate like crazy, making it possible for you to enjoy music at 60dB in a bus. Take breaks between listening sessions, 4 hour continuously listening does more harm than 1 hour 4 times a day.
 
Also, believe it or not, listen to music on public transportation and street. Here's why: here the buses, trains and subways make a lot of noise, and much of it are those screechy metal noises, like from brakes, but really loud. Higher frequency means more energy in the sound wave, which causes more damage. However, if I'm thinking correctly, IEMs and headphones block higher frequency better than lower, which is why when you have them on everything around you sounds muffled and dark. So when you have IEMs on and a bus pulls up next to you or a car brakes, you don't hear that 18kHz eardrum killer. I sometimes have them on even if I'm not listening to anything. It's amazing how noisy every day life can be.
 
Mar 16, 2012 at 7:33 PM Post #7 of 52
i have iems that i use at work AND i also sometimes wear hearing protection over top of them. talk about isolation!
maybe what's really needed is a player with a "loudness" button. (you can do this with an eq that u shaped) Some iems advertise; Atrios for instance that better sound doesn't always mean more volume.
 
Mar 16, 2012 at 9:39 PM Post #8 of 52
Since comply foam/silicone hybrid tips isolate so well, I've found myself using only the lowest volume increment on my droid 2. Then on my rather outdated iPod touch, I locked the volume to a point where even if you turn the volume to "max", it doesn't go past ~75dB, depending on recording. I'd estimate TF10's with the comply stuffed silicone tips isolates anywhere from 25-30dB though. A sony hybrid with the foam might improve isolation a bit. The sound of the street on my morning walks/commutes is about equivalent to something a few notches louder than my computer trying to cool itself down.
 
Mar 16, 2012 at 11:21 PM Post #9 of 52

This is wrong. Lower frequencies contain more energy (much more!), and the "screechy" noises from buses and trains are instantaneous and not likely to cause any long-term damage unless your exposure levels are absurd (like working at a bus garage). That "painful" spectrum is a lot lower than you're thinking it is. Try 18khz out on a tone generator some time; IF you can even hear it, it's a lot different than the noise of a brake squealer or hydraulic pump. It also really doesn't matter what kind of noise you're being exposed to; noise is noise, and if it's too intense it can damage your hearing (doesn't matter if it's a rock concert or a machine gun). What kills your hearing is exposure level over time; not frequency (and yes, noise-induced loss can be narrow-band depending on what you're doing). Finally, listening to music on the street and so-on only works if you have isolating IEMs, otherwise you're doing something known as "blocking" where you're cranking the music up to drown out the background noise - this is the worst possible thing you can do, and is one of the biggest reasons that modern research supports noise-induced hearing-loss being very prevalent in younger listeners; all those crazy kids blasting their iBuds at 150% just to hear the lyrics. Using high-isolation IEMs or headphones while walking around on a busy street is not advisable, as it decreases your awareness, and makes you a better target for things like cars. 
 
As far as what I do: I picked up a pair of Etyplugs this last winter for use with some yard equipment, and ended up just taking them with me everywhere I go (They even included a little pouch). I've found them nice for traveling around mostly to cut down annoying noises (rattles and clicks from riding on the train), but I'm skeptical that I'm really "saving" my hearing or anything (because again, the exposure level/time that I'm dealing with is so minimal). Since all they do is provide ~12 dB of broadband attenuation, but add no music, I can still pay attention everything around me, it's just about half as loud. I would never take something like my Leight L3's out on the street though (NPR of 30 - you can put them on and have your buddy shout their lungs out and hear almost none of it; good luck hearing the train/bus/car/motorcycle/helicopter/transformer/gundam/samurai coming up behind you - great for when you're running a snow thrower or shooting though). 
 
 
For those interested: 
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=standards&p_id=9735
http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/phys_agents/exposure_can.html
 
 
The simple answer to avoiding hearing loss is to reduce exposure. Think about it like radiation. The quantities needed to kill you instantly are extremely high, and not generally found outside of specialized industrial environments. However, if you are exposed to a lesser but "accessible" amount over time, it can do the same damage. In other words, sure - standing right behind a 747 or F14 as it takes off will probably destroy your hearing in a single pass (assuming it doesn't kill you in the process), but you probably aren't going to be able to do that. However, listening to your music at 90-100 dB for a few hours every day, over a few months or years, will have the same effect. You will naturally lose HF as you age, and many older people (say, late 20s or more) usually cannot hear up there at 18k or 16k or whatever else at the same level - that's natural (the 20-20k average is a very generalized statement; the bottom end is just as inexact). 
 
Also remember when selecting hearing protection, it may not be broadband. It probably isn't (LF is very hard to attenuate because it contains so much energy; the only real way to kill LF is with mass, LOTS of mass - that's hard to do with a hearing protector). 
 
Quote:
Also, believe it or not, listen to music on public transportation and street. Here's why: here the buses, trains and subways make a lot of noise, and much of it are those screechy metal noises, like from brakes, but really loud. Higher frequency means more energy in the sound wave, which causes more damage. However, if I'm thinking correctly, IEMs and headphones block higher frequency better than lower, which is why when you have them on everything around you sounds muffled and dark. So when you have IEMs on and a bus pulls up next to you or a car brakes, you don't hear that 18kHz eardrum killer. I sometimes have them on even if I'm not listening to anything. It's amazing how noisy every day life can be.



 
 
Mar 17, 2012 at 6:52 AM Post #10 of 52
My rule of thumb is to listen at volumes similar to normal vocal conversations. If the background noise permits, even softer. Never louder.


same here. if i can't hear myself talk or others then i'm listening to stuff too loud. i listen always at home in my listening room since my room is dead sounding/quiet from all the acoustic treatment. only thing i might crank up once in awhile is my speakers but my speakers are very smooth sounding and the absorption in my room helps lot as well since it prevent spikes and dips on axis but sometimes it can get annoying cause lot of electronic music i like tend to have happy trigger finger when it comes to frequencies above 10khz cause lot try to compensate for what's called ''modern'' highs in modern speakers so lot music can sound very bright.
 
Mar 17, 2012 at 8:19 AM Post #11 of 52
Yes listen to volume similar to normal conversations or even lower than that, I will bet even at the age of 100, you will still be using your ears. Listen to headphone as if you are just listening to a background music, not as if your always inside a concert hall, etc. Me, as much as possible, I always stay below 9 o'clock on the dial of amp. Simply as I could listen to small amount of music...it will serve me already. People with tinnitus are those who experienced extreme noise on their ears. They abused their ears with loud volumes of any source.
 
Since were on a headphone habit, let's simply simply simply listen at the lowest volume possible.
biggrin.gif

 
 
 
Mar 17, 2012 at 12:14 PM Post #12 of 52


Quote:
 People with tinnitus are those who experienced extreme noise on their ears. They abused their ears with loud volumes of any source.
 
 
 


There are many causes of tinnitus (from illness through to "it just happens"), not just exposure to extreme noise. A sound level meter can help with full-size head phones, keep the peaks in the 75 - 80 dB range (or lower), make sure you give your ears plenty of rest from noise and your listening shouldn't impact your hearing (but we're all made differently, so you never can be sure). There have been a number of threads about measuring sound levels, e.g. http://www.head-fi.org/t/507953/what-do-you-use-to-measure-sound-levels
 
 
Mar 17, 2012 at 7:03 PM Post #13 of 52
 
Quote:
This is wrong. Lower frequencies contain more energy (much more!), and the "screechy" noises from buses and trains are instantaneous and not likely to cause any long-term damage unless your exposure levels are absurd (like working at a bus garage). That "painful" spectrum is a lot lower than you're thinking it is. Try 18khz out on a tone generator some time; IF you can even hear it, it's a lot different than the noise of a brake squealer or hydraulic pump. It also really doesn't matter what kind of noise you're being exposed to; noise is noise, and if it's too intense it can damage your hearing (doesn't matter if it's a rock concert or a machine gun). What kills your hearing is exposure level over time; not frequency (and yes, noise-induced loss can be narrow-band depending on what you're doing). Finally, listening to music on the street and so-on only works if you have isolating IEMs, otherwise you're doing something known as "blocking" where you're cranking the music up to drown out the background noise - this is the worst possible thing you can do, and is one of the biggest reasons that modern research supports noise-induced hearing-loss being very prevalent in younger listeners; all those crazy kids blasting their iBuds at 150% just to hear the lyrics. Using high-isolation IEMs or headphones while walking around on a busy street is not advisable, as it decreases your awareness, and makes you a better target for things like cars. 
 
As far as what I do: I picked up a pair of Etyplugs this last winter for use with some yard equipment, and ended up just taking them with me everywhere I go (They even included a little pouch). I've found them nice for traveling around mostly to cut down annoying noises (rattles and clicks from riding on the train), but I'm skeptical that I'm really "saving" my hearing or anything (because again, the exposure level/time that I'm dealing with is so minimal). Since all they do is provide ~12 dB of broadband attenuation, but add no music, I can still pay attention everything around me, it's just about half as loud. I would never take something like my Leight L3's out on the street though (NPR of 30 - you can put them on and have your buddy shout their lungs out and hear almost none of it; good luck hearing the train/bus/car/motorcycle/helicopter/transformer/gundam/samurai coming up behind you - great for when you're running a snow thrower or shooting though). 
 
 
For those interested: 
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=standards&p_id=9735
http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/phys_agents/exposure_can.html
 
 
The simple answer to avoiding hearing loss is to reduce exposure. Think about it like radiation. The quantities needed to kill you instantly are extremely high, and not generally found outside of specialized industrial environments. However, if you are exposed to a lesser but "accessible" amount over time, it can do the same damage. In other words, sure - standing right behind a 747 or F14 as it takes off will probably destroy your hearing in a single pass (assuming it doesn't kill you in the process), but you probably aren't going to be able to do that. However, listening to your music at 90-100 dB for a few hours every day, over a few months or years, will have the same effect. You will naturally lose HF as you age, and many older people (say, late 20s or more) usually cannot hear up there at 18k or 16k or whatever else at the same level - that's natural (the 20-20k average is a very generalized statement; the bottom end is just as inexact). 
 
Also remember when selecting hearing protection, it may not be broadband. It probably isn't (LF is very hard to attenuate because it contains so much energy; the only real way to kill LF is with mass, LOTS of mass - that's hard to do with a hearing protector). 
 

 
Lower frequencies have more energy? I know this is a mechanical wave, I can't find the formula that relates frequency with energy, but would you mind explaining how is it possible that it works exactly the opposite of an electromagnetic wave (E = h * f)? Then again you were the one saying "think about it like radiation" :wink: I'd still like to see some proof of this. Then you go on to say what damages your hearing is noise, not frequency... you just said a lower frequency wave carries more energy (not right, but let's think so). More energy means more pressure, thus more damage, so frequency makes the damage be more or less effective. And because I can't hear a 18kHz it won't harm me? I guess I can go to Chernobyl and not die of cancer because I can't see the radiation. Kids, if you're reading this, do not play with high frequencies.
 
When I said hearing music helped prevent hearing loss it was kind of implied that it didn't mean blocking out noise with more noise. I mean if you're trying to save your ears, it wouldn't make much sense to crank up the volume. Thus the mention of using IEMs on the street even when not listening. I agree with the part about exposure, but I seriously think you have your concepts mixed up.
 
Mar 17, 2012 at 7:06 PM Post #14 of 52
Which one will burn your hand more?  A 500 degree fire or a 600 degree fire?
 
Who cares, they're both bad.  Any sound wave that's too loud will damage your ears.
 

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