headroom and bose are not evil and looks matter
post-186248
Thread Starter
Post #1 of 26

Steve999

smooth, DARK
Joined
Jul 15, 2002
Messages
2,468
Reaction score
287
Joined
Jul 15, 2002
Posts
2,468
Likes
287
Dear head-fiers --

I am sorry to introduce such a grave and sorrowful topic to this venerable forum. As we all know, there has been an unsettling, but very positive, change in paradigm for headphone evaluation around the world.

After an epic battle, which appears to have cost one ardent participant his head-fi standing, it was determined that headroom is not trying to take over the world with its evil smoothed normalized frequency response curves (though I still say they're goofy), and that the Sennhesiser HD 590 and 600 present an inevitably startling and troubling contrast that moves us from the staid conversation of reason to the deepest passions we know.

And now the epic battle is joined as to whether Bose is evil, and Magicthyse has carried the day against the old school (personified by the brilliant but dogmatic MacDef), Bose is not evil, just as headroom is not evil. And already one head-fier has called the HD 600 the Bose of the headphone world. People are thinking, people are questioning the old theories.

And the paradigm shift has evolved to the aesthetic front, and Magicthyse has prevailed again, against his antimatter nemesis MacDef, headphone looks do matter, and in view of this some believe that the Audio Technica AT 100W or whatever the model number is may be the greatest headphone buy on earth, needing no amp and whatnot, by implication calling into doubt the supremacy of the HD 600.

And now I am faced with my own moral dilemma. I am on my second pair of Sony V6s. (I fried my first pair blasting my speakers with the V6s plugged into the headphone jack of the receiver.) On the first pair, I had removed the famous "for digital" stickers. On one level, these stickers are superficial, but I suspect a deeper meaning, tying into the issues of headroom and the HD 600s and the AT100s and Bose and aesthetics, but I have yet to work out the grand theory explaining what is likely a simple but astonishing theory as to the underlying phenomena guiding all of these seemingly unrelated but deeply moving phenomena.

Should I take the "for digital" stickers off of my Sony V6s? Will they sound better that way? Will I feel better about them that way? Does anyone have personal experience with this? Will I be deprived of some much deeper metaphysical insight and experience if I remove the stickers?
 
     Share This Post       
post-186251
Post #2 of 26

aeberbach

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Sep 20, 2001
Messages
1,807
Reaction score
11
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Joined
Sep 20, 2001
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Posts
1,807
Likes
11
I once removed the stickers from a pair of V6 phones. I immediately wished I hadn't.

With stickers installed the V6 had eminently blacker blacks, wider soundstage and greater separation of voice and instruments. They were more articulate, although not unpleasantly analytical. I believe this is due to the damping effect of the adhesive/paper, a sophisticated laminate-like construction. There may also be shielding issues involved.

 
     Share This Post       
post-186261
Post #3 of 26

Joe Bloggs

Member of the Trade: HiBy / EFO technologies Co
His Porta Corda walked the Green Mile
Joined
Oct 21, 2001
Messages
11,037
Reaction score
2,788
Location
Hong Kong and Melbourne
Joined
Oct 21, 2001
Location
Hong Kong and Melbourne
Posts
11,037
Likes
2,788
Steve you traitor!
 
     Share This Post       
post-186262
Post #4 of 26

kelly

Herr Babelfish der Übersetzer, he wore a whipped-cream-covered tutu for this title.
Joined
Jan 1, 2002
Messages
5,435
Reaction score
11
Joined
Jan 1, 2002
Posts
5,435
Likes
11
Much could be lectured to the Head-Fi population on correlation versus causation.

It is not the Bose label that makes a product suck, despite the correlation that most every product with a Bose label does suck.

Their products are not a result of them falling into Satan's good graces nor of attempting to conjure Cthulu.

The fact remains that their products do suck to listen to compared to most stuff price relative from other companies.

If you like the way Bose products look, that's fine too. And again, I'll remind you that it isn't the good looks of a given audio product that causes it to sound bad. The correlation is there but not the causation.
 
     Share This Post       
post-186388
Post #5 of 26

ArChaos

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
667
Reaction score
123
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Posts
667
Likes
123
Quote:

Originally posted by Steve999
Dear head-fiers --

... but I have yet to work out the grand theory explaining what is likely a simple but astonishing theory as to the underlying phenomena guiding all of these seemingly unrelated but deeply moving phenomena.

Should I take the "for digital" stickers off of my Sony V6s? Will they sound better that way? Will I feel better about them that way? Does anyone have personal experience with this? Will I be deprived of some much deeper metaphysical insight and experience if I remove the stickers?


DO NOT by any means remove these stickers!!!...it will definitely ruin the sound...on the other hand the best modd. I know would be removing the drivers - you'll immediately notice a vast improvement - no background hiss AT ALL, independent of the source...
 
     Share This Post       
post-186390
Post #6 of 26

MacDEF

Headphone Hussy (will wear anything if it sounds good)
Joined
Jun 26, 2001
Messages
6,761
Reaction score
12
Joined
Jun 26, 2001
Posts
6,761
Likes
12
Originally posted by Steve999
Quote:

Bose is not evil, just as headroom is not evil.


To even put HeadRoom and Bose in the same sentence is, in and of itself, evil


Whether you personally like them or not, HeadRoom makes good quality products whose performance is pretty good for the price compared to other commercial manufacturers in the field. Their advertising is pretty straightforward, and they tell you straight out when they don't like something; I've even read comments from them about deficiencies in their own products.

Bose makes products that simply don't sound great. What's worse, they charge exhorbitant prices for them. What's even worse than that, they spend immense amounts of money on misleading advertising. Finally, what truly elevates them to the status of "evil" is that if a reviewer dares to criticize their products, they sue.

So, yes, Bose is evil (I wonder if anyone has registered "BoseIsEvil.com" yet?
).


Quote:

And already one head-fier has called the HD 600 the Bose of the headphone world. People are thinking, people are questioning the old theories.


One statement, which was pretty ludicrous by all accounts, does not "questioning the old theories" make.


Quote:

And the paradigm shift has evolved to the aesthetic front,


I think you mean devolved. This is an audio forum. Good-sounding audio is the primary goal.

Let's bring some perspective back into this silly debate. All other things being equal, of course looks are going to matter. If I can buy two products with equal performance for the same price, even I'll take the better-looking one. In fact, I can even understand a tiny bit of tradeoff: if two products that are fairly equal in performance and price, I can see someone buying the one that is slightly inferior in sound quality because it looks much better. Or if two products are equal in sound quality, but one looks better, I can understand (to a certain degree) spending a little more on the better-looking one.

The problem I have is people recommending clearly inferior products simply because they (subjectively) "look good." Or being so concerned with looks (which most of the people you're trying to impress couldn't care less about anyways) that you're settling for inferior products just because they look neat. Or worse, people buying products that "look good" when they could buy a product for 1/2, 1/3, even 1/4 the cost and get better quality audio.

For all these reasons, junk like the Sony MDR-V700 really have no place in serious discussion of audio, IMO. Do they look good? To some, yes, they look nice. But their sound isn't very good; in fact it stinks compared to almost any headphone at the same price. And you can get better sound from products that cost much less. Since sound is what we're after, well... there you go.

On the Bose front, what's the absolute worst is when you can get a similar product that sounds better, costs less, and looks as good or even better, but you still buy the "name" product because you've fallen victim to the wiles of multi-million-dollar advertising and marketing campaigns.


Why do these things bother me so much? Because I like good-sounding audio. The more lemmings that buy inferior audio products because of looks or over-hyped brand name, the fewer people that buy good audio equipment. The inferior products become more widespread and more popular, as the good products become less popular. Competition between manufacturer increasingly emphasizes looks over performance. It's a downward spiral, with the end result being that everyone will have to settle for junk like Bose and the V600. The more people who can be convinced to buy, or at least audition, real audio gear, the bigger the market will become, the more competition will focus on performance for the price.

Don't get me wrong... if a new member comes to Head-Fi and says "I want a headphone that looks good, so please help me find one," looks are clearly relevant. But when a member is asking about good headphones, and certain people (*cough*Magic*cough*) insist on bringing looks into the discussion -- that's irrelevant and counter-productive, not only to the discussion at hand, but to the greater issue of high-quality audio. People shouldn't leave Head-Fi to buy their headphones thinking "wow, I guess I really have to worry whether I'm going to look like a dork." Which is the impression you get when people make posts like "Well, headphone X sounds great, but I wouldn't be caught dead wearing it outside, so you should really consider headphone Y."




Quote:

and Magicthyse has prevailed again


"Prevailed?" Where? Doesn't seem like it from what I've read around here



Quote:

some believe that the Audio Technica AT 100W or whatever the model number is may be the greatest headphone buy on earth


I haven't seen a single person on Head-Fi call any AT headphone the "greatest" or even the "greatest buy."

Quote:

Should I take the "for digital" stickers off of my Sony V6s?


Who cares?


Quote:

Will they sound better that way?


Objectively? No. Subconsciously? How weak is your subconsious?



Quote:

Will I feel better about them that way?


I hope not.

Quote:

Will I be deprived of some much deeper metaphysical insight and experience if I remove the stickers?


You'll be deprived of the joy that some feel in announcing to the world "My headphones are digital-ready!!!"
 
     Share This Post       
post-186401
Post #7 of 26

taipeileviathan

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 8, 2002
Messages
233
Reaction score
0
Joined
Aug 8, 2002
Posts
233
Likes
0
i once stuck a post-it on the corner of my computer screen, and magically (although i'm sure the laws of physics are behind this phenomenon, as they always are), the bass on my staxes beefed up, there was much more punch, the highs and sibilance of voice on certain rock songs that were harsh before softened immediately, and tho the mids became a tiny bit recessed compared to before, the benefits that came from this tweak were very much welcome.

i must say, however, not being able to see the my computer and my document icons did put me thru some severe stress at first. it takes a while to get used to it, call it psychological burn-in if u will, but the sonic improvements are very much worth it.

hope that helped!

ps, i tried also sticking a post-it on my staxes, but all i got was a less open sound.
 
     Share This Post       
post-186406
Post #8 of 26

Sol_Zhen

Takes his kids to the natatorium every morning.
Joined
Sep 6, 2002
Messages
2,113
Reaction score
10
Joined
Sep 6, 2002
Posts
2,113
Likes
10
Quote:

Bose is not evil


 
     Share This Post       
post-186424
Post #9 of 26

jfalford

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
312
Reaction score
0
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Posts
312
Likes
0
Originally posted by kelly
Much could be lectured to the Head-Fi population on correlation versus causation.

It is not the Bose label that makes a product suck, despite the correlation that most every product with a Bose label does suck.

I believe that this is more of a syllagistic argument than a corrolative or a causative one. You know "all birds have feathers, ducks have feathers, ducks are birds. Bose has seen its products go abandond by any listener with all three little bones in his ear and has decided instead to market its products toward those same individuals so eagerly sought by P.T. Barnum. How they got Herbie Hancock to hawk their products is beyond me. Anyway, the perceptual improvement to be gained by any change in something that doesn't actually present a change in the physical or mechanical aspects of the equipment can be attributed to and enjoyed by all those willing to succomb to its magic, perceptaul-emotional spell.
 
     Share This Post       
post-186432
Post #10 of 26

TimSchirmer

Repelling digital infidels. (Would that be called the Digifadah?)
Joined
Nov 22, 2001
Messages
3,222
Reaction score
50
Joined
Nov 22, 2001
Posts
3,222
Likes
50
what!!!!

how dare you mention bose and headroom in the same thread! i should wash your mouth out with soap!
 
     Share This Post       
post-186441
Post #11 of 26

HD-5000

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Sep 16, 2001
Messages
1,400
Reaction score
10
Joined
Sep 16, 2001
Posts
1,400
Likes
10
Quote:

Dear head-fiers --

I am sorry to introduce such a grave and sorrowful topic to this venerable forum. As we all know, there has been an unsettling, but very positive, change in paradigm for headphone evaluation around the world.

After an epic battle, which appears to have cost one ardent participant his head-fi standing, it was determined that headroom is not trying to take over the world with its evil smoothed normalized frequency response curves (though I still say they're goofy), and that the Sennhesiser HD 590 and 600 present an inevitably startling and troubling contrast that moves us from the staid conversation of reason to the deepest passions we know.

And now the epic battle is joined as to whether Bose is evil, and Magicthyse has carried the day against the old school (personified by the brilliant but dogmatic MacDef), Bose is not evil, just as headroom is not evil. And already one head-fier has called the HD 600 the Bose of the headphone world. People are thinking, people are questioning the old theories.

And the paradigm shift has evolved to the aesthetic front, and Magicthyse has prevailed again, against his antimatter nemesis MacDef, headphone looks do matter, and in view of this some believe that the Audio Technica AT 100W or whatever the model number is may be the greatest headphone buy on earth, needing no amp and whatnot, by implication calling into doubt the supremacy of the HD 600.

And now I am faced with my own moral dilemma. I am on my second pair of Sony V6s. (I fried my first pair blasting my speakers with the V6s plugged into the headphone jack of the receiver.) On the first pair, I had removed the famous "for digital" stickers. On one level, these stickers are superficial, but I suspect a deeper meaning, tying into the issues of headroom and the HD 600s and the AT100s and Bose and aesthetics, but I have yet to work out the grand theory explaining what is likely a simple but astonishing theory as to the underlying phenomena guiding all of these seemingly unrelated but deeply moving phenomena.

Should I take the "for digital" stickers off of my Sony V6s? Will they sound better that way? Will I feel better about them that way? Does anyone have personal experience with this? Will I be deprived of some much deeper metaphysical insight and experience if I remove the stickers?






Who gives a ****?
 
     Share This Post       
post-186451
Post #12 of 26

HD-5000

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Sep 16, 2001
Messages
1,400
Reaction score
10
Joined
Sep 16, 2001
Posts
1,400
Likes
10
sorry, I felt like being hostile at the moment.
 
     Share This Post       
post-186454
Post #13 of 26

disturbed

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 26, 2001
Messages
831
Reaction score
10
Joined
Jul 26, 2001
Posts
831
Likes
10
I couldn't help but snicker all the way till the end

HarHarHargharfsnickersnicker
 
     Share This Post       
post-186478
Post #14 of 26

gloco

Only one ban in 5000 attempts!
Joined
Oct 19, 2001
Messages
7,047
Reaction score
18
Joined
Oct 19, 2001
Posts
7,047
Likes
18
Quote:

Originally posted by disturbed
I couldn't help but snicker all the way till the end

HarHarHargharfsnickersnicker


Me too, apparently we have a few too many fruit loops that have wandered away from their dj sites to this poor ol site.

 
     Share This Post       
post-186484
Post #15 of 26

kerelybonto

doo-di-doo-di-dum doo-di-dum doo-di-doo-di-dum
Joined
May 6, 2002
Messages
1,518
Reaction score
10
Joined
May 6, 2002
Posts
1,518
Likes
10
taipeileviathan, I've experienced similar results with the Post-it mod. I've also found that if you use one of the lighter shades, such as the yellow ones, you can see through it and are better able to use your computur. There is a trade off though: the darker colors seem give you better high-frequency extension.

As for the asthetics debate -- well, I look good in any headphones. Especially when I'm just in headphones.

kerelybonto
 
     Share This Post       

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top