Headphones with the Best Bass, Soundstage, UNAMPED?
Mar 3, 2012 at 6:02 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 18

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My primary interest is single player PC gaming, which means I'm running my headphones out of my 5.1 soundcard, which means no external amp or dac.
 
So ... What, in your opinion, are the best sounding headphones running UNAMPED in terms of bass (heavy, subwoofer-style bass) and soundstage?
 
I have ATH M50s and Samson SR850s already, so I'm looking for something a bit better/heavier than those ...
 
All suggestions appreciated!
 
Mar 3, 2012 at 6:04 PM Post #2 of 18
The DT770 and D2000 are the first ones that pop into my head.  I've not heard the SR850 but the M50s have really bad soundstaging-- they sound very cramped.
 
The DT770 flat out has more bass, while the D2000s have less quantitive bass than the M50s but more impactful bass-- making their bass seem heftier, if you will.
 
Mar 3, 2012 at 6:07 PM Post #3 of 18
Thanks for responding, TMRaven!
 
Funny you should mention those two--they are more or less at the top of my list, with the D2000 a slight favorite. Which do you think sounds best unamped, if you had to pick?
 
Mar 3, 2012 at 6:08 PM Post #4 of 18
Kenwood KH-K1000 can extend very low (none of that mud-cannon DJ stuff either) and have excellent imaging and isolation. Comfortable too. 
 
If that's too much (price), Ultrasone HFI-2400 has a lot of mid-bass/boom, are comfortable, don't cost a lot, are easily driven, are very durable, and have great imaging. They are very fun with videogames and action movies. 
 
This is in addition to the Denon D2000, but I will say that I'd take either of the above over the Denon; the Kenwood are more refined/grown-up, the Ultrasone are more fun (and are very reasonably priced (they're usually around $200)). 
 
 
 
 
 
Mar 3, 2012 at 6:16 PM Post #5 of 18
What seems to be the problem with getting a headphone amplifier? That alone would increase the range of headphones you can get by quite a bit.
 
Also, what soundcard do you have?
 
Mar 3, 2012 at 6:16 PM Post #6 of 18
Thanks for responding, obob!
 
Never head of the Kenwoods but will definitely look into them based on your suggestion. The Ultrasone's I've considered, but I read somewhere that their "S-Logic Surround Sound" can play havoc with 5.1 sound placement ... Have you not found that to be the case?
 
Mar 3, 2012 at 6:25 PM Post #7 of 18
I don't know, maybe I'm weird, but S-Logic "works" for me; I tried them with a variety of games and positioning was excellent, especially for a headphone that can provide a lot of bass to go with that imaging. 
 
I think the Kenwood is better overall (I can provide more impressions later, but I'm on a deadline right now!). They are twice the price though (check AudioCubes for more).
 

 
Quote:
Thanks for responding, obob!
 
Never head of the Kenwoods but will definitely look into them based on your suggestion. The Ultrasone's I've considered, but I read somewhere that their "S-Logic Surround Sound" can play havoc with 5.1 sound placement ... Have you not found that to be the case?



 
 
Mar 3, 2012 at 6:33 PM Post #8 of 18
Single player competitive gaming I would suggest hd598 with dolby headphone. The denon series is great but too boomy for competitive gaming...
 
Mar 3, 2012 at 7:01 PM Post #9 of 18


Quote:
What seems to be the problem with getting a headphone amplifier? That alone would increase the range of headphones you can get by quite a bit.
 
Also, what soundcard do you have?



Hey, thanks for weighing in!
 
I have an old Auzentech Prelude. I'm running 5.1 analog out to my full-sized receiver, an old Denon 1400. I have speakers but use headphones when my family is sleeping. I tried connecting a Fiio E9 to the Denon's headphone out jack but it didn't sound very good--someone suggested that it was because the Denon was already amplifying the sound, and so connecting another amp just muddied things up. But it also didn't sound very good when I connected it directly to my soundcard either ...
 
My guess is that most people with headphone amps are running them from external dacs ... but if I tried that I would lose my 5.1 discrete channeling ...
 
Mar 3, 2012 at 7:11 PM Post #10 of 18


Quote:
Single player competitive gaming I would suggest hd598 with dolby headphone. The denon series is great but too boomy for competitive gaming...


Well, I'm not really playing "competitively," unless you consider going up against AI opponents competitive. What I'm really looking for above all else is a sense of immersion, and anemic bass really ruins that for me. Hadn't considered the 598 but will check it out. Thanks for the recommendation!
 
 
Mar 3, 2012 at 7:39 PM Post #11 of 18


Quote:
Hey, thanks for weighing in!
 
I have an old Auzentech Prelude. I'm running 5.1 analog out to my full-sized receiver, an old Denon 1400. I have speakers but use headphones when my family is sleeping. I tried connecting a Fiio E9 to the Denon's headphone out jack but it didn't sound very good--someone suggested that it was because the Denon was already amplifying the sound, and so connecting another amp just muddied things up. But it also didn't sound very good when I connected it directly to my soundcard either ...
 
My guess is that most people with headphone amps are running them from external dacs ... but if I tried that I would lose my 5.1 discrete channeling ...



Ah, if you're using a receiver, then you are indeed already further amplifying things, and adding another headphone amp on top of that wouldn't do any good to the sound itself.
 
Basically, you don't need to look for easy to drive headphones alone since the receiver does its part as well.
 
There are many popular headphones for game immersion (usually that doesn't go hand in hand with competitiveness), such as Beyerdynamic DT990, Ultrasone HFI-580, Ultrasone Pro 900, and some people even play with flagships like Denon AH-D7000. It's all about how much you can spend :)
 
Also, there have been reports that the Sennheiser HD598 are good for competitive gaming (multiplayer), but not so much for single player where immersion is more valued.
 
Mar 3, 2012 at 10:33 PM Post #13 of 18
The Denon receiver should be able to drive your headphones quite competently (so by itself it should be good enough and not need anything else; you'll probably have to switch the Prelude into stereo mode though, if you're using Analog MCH there's almost certainly no DSP). Regarding the E9's connection, you'd want to put it on the Prelude's FR/FL output (the main left/right), and set the Prelude to either Headphones or 2.0/2.1 Speakers; it works quite well. You can even have it "between" the receiver and soundcard based on the connections the E9 offers.
 
Quote:
Hey, thanks for weighing in!
 
I have an old Auzentech Prelude. I'm running 5.1 analog out to my full-sized receiver, an old Denon 1400. I have speakers but use headphones when my family is sleeping. I tried connecting a Fiio E9 to the Denon's headphone out jack but it didn't sound very good--someone suggested that it was because the Denon was already amplifying the sound, and so connecting another amp just muddied things up. But it also didn't sound very good when I connected it directly to my soundcard either ...
 
My guess is that most people with headphone amps are running them from external dacs ... but if I tried that I would lose my 5.1 discrete channeling ...



 
 
Mar 4, 2012 at 1:33 AM Post #14 of 18
Some quick impressions between the HFI-2400 and KH-K1000:
 
The KH-K1000:
 
- Is "smoother" and less aggressive sounding.
- Is more closed-in sounding (it has a very "intimate" soundstage; very 3D but not huge) 
- Is balanced, despite being able to dig very low (and hit rather hard)
- Is mid-centric and somewhat slow (admittedly compared to nothing but open-back cans and stats)
 
The HFI-2400:
 
- Is a bit more aggressive, but not what I would call harsh, on the top end
- Has pulled back mids 
- Has much more mid-bass energy, to the point of sounding somewhat bloated
- Weighs much less and has velour/fabric pads (it will probably be a better pick for very long-term wearing; I think my record on the K1000 is around 7 hours)
 
Overall the KH-K1000 is a better choice if you're listening to music or want something more accurate, but the HFI-2400 is more "fun" for games and movies, and costs a lot less. Both can very well do 3D (neither is a K701), and both can pull a lot of details out (the K1000 is probably a bit better, because the mids aren't recessed relative to the rest of the spectrum), and both are very suitable with videogames and movies. I would regard the K1000 as the more conservative choice, sound-wise, but the HFI-2400 as the more pragmatic choice, price-wise (in other words, if you only have $100-$200, want a decent amount of bass, need to wear these for a long time, aren't critically comparing them to everything under the sun, and are okay just buying something and leaving it alone; the HFI-2400 are probably not a bad choice).
 
They are quite different in their overall "flavors" - the Kenwood is more of a jazz/trance affair (lots of mid-range energy with a healthy amount of bottom-end impact and top-end extension), while the HFI-2400 seems best suited for grunge rock or something along those lines (lots of low-end energy without destroying the mid/high-end energy in the process). The biggest downside I see to the KH-K1000 if you're in the States, is that you can't return them to AudioCubes if you aren't happy with them (and they probably take a hell of a beating on resale due to their rarity); the HFI-2400 on the other hand are available from Amazon and other retailers that have a return policy. If you're on the fence between them, I'd honestly suggest the HFI-2400 - if you're not happy, send them back and try again (perhaps the KH-K1000). With the Kenwood on the other hand, once you've got them, they're yours - for better or worse (they're really quite pleasant though, and I honestly couldn't see too many people disliking them; they contrast WILDLY with my general preferences for a headphone (they weigh about twice as much as any other can I have, have about a gazillion times as much bass, are closed,  etc) and I don't see myself getting rid of them any time soon). 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Mar 4, 2012 at 2:20 AM Post #15 of 18
I currently have denon ah-d2000 which i listen to unamped through low end soundcard.  To me, they sound perfectly fine when listening to music.  certain genres you may need to tweek the EQ properly, but I have not used for gaming--that being said I would imagine they would be great for gaming. 
 

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