[onvn]

So what's the thing behind audiophiles obsessing with either headphones or speakers, but not both? Many audiophiles spend thousands, tens of thousands and even into the hundreds of thousands to fulfill their audiophilia needs. However, many argue you can get headphone set-ups which cost maybe five or ten, if you're lucky, percent the price of a speaker set-up which sound on par with those ridiculously priced, and tempting, speaker set-ups - not to mention dedicating a room of your house for a listening theatre, sticking foam and exotic materials to the wall and ceiling. Of course there's the comfort factor - some people don't want a big chunk of matter stuck on their heads - but still, its a fraction of a fraction of the price of speaker set-ups.

So what's your say in this subject? I am very curious as I am new to the addictive, and very expensive, hobby of the world of audio.

 

[MaloS]

To each his own

There are alot of other issues apart from personal comfort associated with using phones or speakers, and there is a certain feeling produced by either that other cannot provide for all that well. (lets make an exception to electrostatic speakers, they are godly, but they also cost more than a baby Jesus)




(hopefully I did not offend any Christians here).

 

[KrooLism]

I have had the pleasure of listening to music in a professional production studio with all the bass traps and acoustic damperners.

A room like that to start off with will cost $150 000 to set up right off the bat.

Then the monitor speaker setup in that room we're about $100 000.

In my humble opinion, my Grace M902 -> HD 650 almost has an equivalent sound to that. Yes - you do have to put up with something over your head and yes, the sound stage and imaging isn't quite as good, but I only paid about 3% of that price. But - the resolution and detail is definitely better with headphones.

If I was stupid rich - I'd probably go with speakers, but for most normal income earners, you can get similar, pure fidelity grade sound through headphones.

 

[Duggeh]

I need both, although my speaker rig isnt quite up to par with my headphone one.

You cant throw a party with only headphones!

 

[SickMouthy]

The fidelity and cost issues are all true, but headphones can never fully realise the sheer visceral thrill of a pair of (even quite modestly-priced) speakers. Hence, I like both.

 

[TheMuffinMan_01]

When you get into $15k plus speaker systems... I don't think headphones can compare at all. My stereo speaker set up cost me maybe 1500 and so far I like my unamped K701's waaay better. I don't feel I wasted the money because the speakers are part of the home theater, so thats cool, but I doubt I'll ever do serious music listening through my speakers again.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickMouthy /img/forum/go_quote.gif The fidelity and cost issues are all true, but headphones can never fully realise the sheer visceral thrill of a pair of (even quite modestly-priced) speakers. Hence, I like both.

Have you tried the AKG K-1000? For me, it's the perfect blend between the two. When you have the earspeakers canted out, it is difficult to tell whether you're listening to speakers or headphones. I really wish some other manufacturers would try something similar.

I like to balance between speakers and headphones. Speakers can be in the same ballpark as the higher-end headphones if you DIY. There's a substantial cost savings with building your own. Unless you really have a lot of disposable income, DIY speakers are the only way to go for the best sound.

 

[bifcake]

Headphones are a much better bang for the buck. My 580's with the equinox cable sound as good as the 20k revel salons. Needless to say, I can't afford the 20k for the speakers plus another 40k for all the electronics that one would need to take advantage of the speakers and to bring them to their full potential. The headphones can deliver equivalent fidelity for about 10% of the price and that's including a really good source and an amp.

What you don't get with headphones is the visceral feel of the music. The headphone images are much smaller and different than those of a speaker system. A good speaker system will deliver an image of the musical performance taking place right in front of you. Whereas with headphones, even the recessed ones, the image is smaller and more reminiscent of a small studio performance where you stand with the musicians and look out from the stage, rather than being in the audience and looking at the stage. Furthermore, it's much harder to share your music with others using a headphone setup or make love to music without getting entangled in headphone cords.

The speaker images tend to pull you in, whereas with headphones, YOU pull in the music (if that makes any sense).

However, the advantages of headphones are:

Full range drivers - no crossovers, no driver integration concerns

Acoustic space in your head - No concerns about room acoustics, damping, listening position of the speakers, standing waves, etc.

Price - There's no comparison here. I think it's because headphones are so much easier to make that it's much cheaper to get the really high fidelity system for a very, very reasonable cost.

Cabinet resonances - Headphones generally don't suffer from enclosure resonances and can thus produce a much cleaner sound for much less

Amplification choices - It's easy to make a good amplifer for a headphone than a speaker. You can have solid state, SET, Ultra Linear, OTL and other topologies without worrying about power requirements. Very little power is required to drive headphones, so your choice of amplifier topologies are dictated by your preferences, rather than practical considerations.


When all is said and done, I think that both headphones and speakers have their place. If I had the cash, I would have both. When forced to work on a budget, the headphone setup will get you much further than a speaker setup. That's why I think that most people, especially here are more obsessed over headphones than speakers. Simply because it's so much more affordable to obsess over a headphone setup and to experiment with different headphones, sources and amps.

 

[SickMouthy]

Headphones have never yet (and I cannot see them doing so in the future) had me rolling around on the floor wailing and sweating and caught up in some kind of mad rapture by Isaac Hayes doing Walk On By. a; They'd fall off my head or get the cable ripped off if I tried, and b; they simply can'y envelop my whole body and environment in sound in the same way. Sure, I've done some serious airguitar, airdrums, airtheremin, airsequencer and airbootyshake with headphones on, and I LOVE my headphones, but it's not, and never can be the same.

There are things speakers can't do either - they're not so great for laying back and letting the world float away, for instance, or listening when everyone else has gone to bed.

So, y'know, both. EVEN in the face of K1000s!

 

[zeluiz22]

"and yes, the sound stage and imaging isn't quite as good, but I only paid about 3% of that price. But - the resolution and detail is definitely better with headphones."

That's true, but those are not insignificant factors; sounddstage and imaging are the difference between a listening experience that approximates live music and one that doesn't. I'll concede that you may get more detail when comparing good phones to mediocre speakers, but you cannot replace the soundstage and imaging that speakers produce in spades over phones.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Have you tried the AKG K-1000? For me, it's the perfect blend between the two. When you have the earspeakers canted out, it is difficult to tell whether you're listening to speakers or headphones. I really wish some other manufacturers would try something similar.

I tried a k1000 at a headphone meet. So granted, it wasn't optimal listening conditions or anything. While a neat concept for a headphone, it's still not to the level of a good speaker system IMO. Number one, you still don't get a natural crossfeed between channels since the drivers are on either side of your head. Number two, it's still one driver per side. So you don't get the improved dynamics of a speaker that has a tweeters and woofers. While my Senns can get pretty good resolution with my rig, it's still not quite as impactful as what a speaker can handle (based on size and # of drivers).

*edit*"and yes, the sound stage and imaging isn't quite as good, but I only paid about 3% of that price. But - the resolution and detail is definitely better with headphones."

While I think a headphone's real strength is detail, I guess one of my points was that resolution may be better on a speaker.

 

[MatsudaMan]

IMO you definitely need both a hi-fi and a head-fi rig. I don't think you can really achieve complete satisfaction with one, especially on the headphone side. Don't get me wrong - I love listening to my headphones. But really, my conventional loudspeakers are preferred unless it's late at night (don't want to disturb neighbors), really want to be alone, or I need to do critical score study. While I love the immediacy and intimate nature of headphone listening, you really can't achieve a natural sounding soundstage inside your head, or the space between headphone drivers and your ears- thus people refer to this idea of 'headstage'. Speakers reproduce the musicians in front of you and thus can create a soundstage that is realistic of being in a hall or a concert with musicians in front of you. Moreover, headphone listening is a solitary affair, which can be really great when you want to shut out the world and be completely alone. But, I do feel headphones have an important place in music listening. For me, conventional hi-fi is just a little more natural, impactful, realistic, and satisfying for me. BTW, my hi-fi setup has almost the identical sound of my head-fi rig- love the continuity.

 

[VicAjax]

i think it's pretty much a given that a decent speaker rig will outperform a decent headphone rig, with few exceptions.

when i sit in front of my speakers, i can begin to imagine being at a concert with the actual musicians performing in front of me.

the only cans i've heard that didn't make me feel like i had a little band hovering around my brain were the K1000. and my personal take on those, while wonderful, is... well why not just buy a pair of speakers?

 

[robm321]

I enjoy my speakers the most. There's no contest. Simply hearing lifesized images with bass impact is terrific. I spent 2 years figuring out about how sound works and room treatment to get me to the point where I can treat most rooms appropriately. Prior to that, it was difficult to get the sound right.

I listen to headphones mostly though because I can lay down or move around. Sitting in the sweetspot with speakers is the most difficult part of speaker listening to me. The GS-1000 does a very good job of simulating bass impact in a speakerlike fasion, but even with its big soundstage it can't compare to lifesized images spread out in front of you like a live performance.

I have to take exception with Davesrose. The K-1000 does have crossfeed (leakage from both speakers into the other ear). That was what the design was all about. And also single driver speakers are some of the most desireable out there, so more drivers don't always = better.

I think the K-1000 gets closest to speakers, but it still is far from getting there.

 

[luidge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh /img/forum/go_quote.gif I need both, although my speaker rig isnt quite up to par with my headphone one. You cant throw a party with only headphones!

Amen to that my friend!

...Am i the only one to think that people that only listen to their headphones for their music need must be kinda lonely people or real conservative about their music taste