[LazyListener]

I'm curious what you'd think of the JBL LSR305, because, as I'm sure you know, I think mine (which I got new for just $250) are far superior in just about every way to any headphone I've heard, including ones that cost four figures. (And that's without any room treatments or EQ yet. But I'm in a bedroom, not a living room.)

What do you use for volume control with your 305s? I'm assuming you don't adjust the volume individually on each speaker using the built in control.

Also, when I do use speakers, I enjoy the remote volume control I get with my receiver. Most active monitors don't have remote volume control.

 

[Music Alchemist]

What do you use for volume control with your 305s?

Schiit SYS passive preamp.

 

[mousike]

A reference headphone setup is about 6k to 10k while a reference speakers setup is about 10 times more. Which is better? To my ears a reference speakers setup with all top of the line electronics spinning from a vinyl source with marginal room treatment gave me mind boggling sound experience - pure fidelity and not just to my ears but I felt it on my skin literally!

So is headphones not worth the spend or inferior? Not true. Yes, the visceral real world reproduction of sound in your room can bring the performance physically right around you in person and not just in your head. But it cost many times more to achieve that and there is no way one can lug all those gears out the door and enjoy the same sound in the open. One can have similar reference sound quality from a headphone in a cafe while enjoying a cup of freshly brewed coffee and watching folks passing thru. They are both different experience and not one can replace the other afterall music is about connecting people to you a form of communication not about gears

Is there a threshold on headphones spend? Well, I do certainly thinks the current price reference headgears are nearing the grey areas. That said, so are the reference speakers so it's not a phenomenon in the audiophile space. In my view and it's a fact that the material cost of these products is only a small fraction of it's asking price. The profits are in madness scale, not sustainable, and not doing the community or industry any good. Unfortunately this is now the reality...at the current course of developments more and more have got into diy producing some gears that punch way above some well known brands.

In conclusion speakers and headphones meets different needs and the experience is different. Spend within means and enjoy your music~

 

[Music Alchemist]

A reference headphone setup is about 6k to 10k while a reference speakers setup is about 10 times more.

Sounds like you've been exposed to too much overpriced equipment and not enough reasonably priced high fidelity equipment. For example, I think entry-level used STAX (which only costs a few hundred dollars) kills non-electrostatic headphone systems; even ones approaching five figures. (It measures better too.) And, as I've stated too many times here (and I know this is just my opinion), I think studio monitor speakers that also only cost a few hundred easily beat all those. (Aside from not being able to extend to 20 Hz without a subwoofer and having to deal with your listening room.) As for expensive speakers, I know plenty of people who say that speakers that cost just a few thousand can be just as good as (or even better than) many ones that cost five to six figures if you make the right decisions.

 

[mousike]

Don't misunderstand the context of my points. I was merely sharing my personal experiences and not from third sources. As said, in this hobby it is important to spend within means and I repeat it is about connecting with people thru music not gears. Glad what you have now works for you. Cheers~

 

[SP Wild]

I'm still confused about the "headphones have more detail" thing. For example, many say the HD 800 is the most detailed/resolving headphone...but so far I haven't heard a single detail on the HD 800 that my speakers don't also reproduce, whereas I do hear details on the speakers that I never did on headphones, and it's much more natural too. I think headphones just make certain details more apparent, but in a less accurate way.

Compared to any two way monitors, my HD800S has way more bass detail to start. It doesn't just go lower but it is also more 'details' in the bass. I think the crossover frequency on the LSR 305 will be about 2.5khz. I can guarantee the HD800S can put out better separation and definition below the crossover frequency.

Put your ears to the woofers... Those warm sounds. They're far more defined on good headphones as opposed to just being warm.

I would not trade my LCD2 or HD800S for my A7X or KH120. If I had only one choice, it would be my LCD2s, with HD800S very close behind as second choice. But I would choose either of those speakers over all my other headphones.

There is a great scene in the movie Amadeus, about Mozart, where his arch nemesis gets a hold of Mozart's music score and by looking at them nearly fainted at how exquisite the music is.

I am just like Mozart's arch nemesis! Just not so musically genuis... But I too can nearly faint with the exquisiteness of the music... Just substitute musical scores with great headphones.

Perhaps in a different life, I too could have eargasms by reading musical scores. But alas, I am useless without my ears.

On a different note, I fired up my dual 12 inch subs. They're schiit, too slow. I am looking at the SVS SB13 sealed 12 in sub to extend my monitors to full range.

Was also thinking of the Eve Subs. They can remote control overall volume, I could probably just plug the Dac straight in and control the volume via the sub remote.

Any ideas about Subs?

 

[Music Alchemist]

I would not trade my LCD2 or HD800S for my A7X or KH120. If I had only one choice, it would be my LCD2s, with HD800S very close behind as second choice. But I would choose either of those speakers over all my other headphones.

Any ideas about Subs?

I had the HD 800 and LCD-2F. Can't think of a single category in which they sounded more realistic to me than the speakers, honestly. (I also drove an HD 800 from high-end systems at a shop before that.) I never thought of the HD 800 as having better separation and definition; just sounded like an overly tight, dry, mechanical headphone to me, even after extensive equalization. Just goes to show ya that preference is king.

I got my third STAX system today, but have to wait until I receive a speaker amp before I can use it.

I know that SVS claim to make the best subs. And there are various opinions on ported vs sealed. But I'm not exactly the person to ask, since I've never even owned a sub. If I get the ADAM S2V, I was thinking of pairing it with the Sub12, but that's like $5,500, so I have plenty of other things to take care of first. (Like finding a good house to move to and installing room treatments. hehe)

 

[LazyListener]

Put your ears to the woofers... Those warm sounds. They're far more defined on good headphones as opposed to just being warm.

Agreed. From my limited experience, the midrange, especially low mids, are more detailed and apparent, on headphones than they are with speakers. With speakers, there always seems to be a relatively large tradeoff. If you get ones with good midrange clarity, then the mid-high bass is lacking. If you get ones with punchy, impactful mid-high bass, then the midrange clarity suffers. At least that's what I've noticed with 2-way designs. With headphones, the tradeoff is still there, but much less so, IMO. Seems with speakers, you need a 3-way design or a 2-way with good midrange clarity (and weak bass) and a subwoofer.

 

[SP Wild]

I had the HD 800 and LCD-2F. Can't think of a single category in which they sounded more realistic to me than the speakers, honestly. (I also drove an HD 800 from high-end systems at a shop before that.) I never thought of the HD 800 as having better separation and definition; just sounded like an overly tight, dry, mechanical headphone to me, even after extensive equalization. Just goes to show ya that preference is king.

I got my third STAX system today, but have to wait until I receive a speaker amp before I can use it.

I know that SVS claim to make the best subs. And there are various opinions on ported vs sealed. But I'm not exactly the person to ask, since I've never even owned a sub. If I get the ADAM S2V, I was thinking of pairing it with the Sub12, but that's like $5,500, so I have plenty of other things to take care of first. (Like finding a good house to move to and installing room treatments. hehe)

I realise I tend to drift further away from nearfield with my monitors as time goes by. I sat close again to my Rokit 4 s and by golly... That spaciousness is amazing, headphones have zero spacious capabilities in comparison. It could be a matter of being used to things, who knows, my mind could change with time and I may totally prefer speakers in the future?

If I must sell one, the A7Xs or KH120s... The KH120s will be sold. The Adams sound so gorgeous. That tweeter is incredibly sweet and resolving, more than anything else I have ever heard. I do wish it had more weight in the mid treble and some more pop in the uppermids, but it's a nitpick. The lower mids are great, and bass has great punch. If the S2V sounds the same but better they'd be amazing!

Agreed. From my limited experience, the midrange, especially low mids, are more detailed and apparent, on headphones than they are with speakers. With speakers, there always seems to be a relatively large tradeoff. If you get ones with good midrange clarity, then the mid-high bass is lacking. If you get ones with punchy, impactful mid-high bass, then the midrange clarity suffers. At least that's what I've noticed with 2-way designs. With headphones, the tradeoff is still there, but much less so, IMO. Seems with speakers, you need a 3-way design or a 2-way with good midrange clarity (and weak bass) and a subwoofer.

By golly!

You are 100 percent correct with your observations with 2 ways, I never picked a pattern but my KH120s have the greatest bass for a two way, no subs necessary, but the woofer mids are a bit indistinct.

The Rokit 4, the smallest and cheapest has the best resolution in the woofer mids, but lacks bass.

The A7Xs split the difference.

I was thinking for the price of ATC 20 ASL, I could buy some big ass 3 way JBL passives. Dunno, never owned decent 3 ways, but maybe you're on to something?

 

[cocolinho]

I'm curious what you'd think of the JBL LSR305, because, as I'm sure you know, I think mine (which I got new for just $250) are far superior in just about every way to any headphone I've heard, including ones that cost four figures. (And that's without any room treatments or EQ yet. But I'm in a bedroom, not a living room.)

That's my plan for the very near future. Since I'll move house and get a dedicated place to work I plan to move away from headphones to small speakers. After onwing maybe 50 different ones from USD20 to USD1800 I'm bored with headphones. Can't wait to receive these LSR305!

 

[LazyListener]

By golly!

You are 100 percent correct with your observations with 2 ways, I never picked a pattern but my KH120s have the greatest bass for a two way, no subs necessary, but the woofer mids are a bit indistinct.

The Rokit 4, the smallest and cheapest has the best resolution in the woofer mids, but lacks bass.

The A7Xs split the difference.

I was thinking for the price of ATC 20 ASL, I could buy some big ass 3 way JBL passives. Dunno, never owned decent 3 ways, but maybe you're on to something?

I don't think a 3-way design will automatically sound better than a 2-way. It has the potential to sound better. Depends on other factors like the crossovers and enclosure design, etc. I think regardless if it's a 2-way or 3-way, it's important to isolate the low-mid bass notes away from the enclosure that reproduces the rest of the spectrum. Some 3 or 4 ways, usually tower speakers, have built in subwoofers that are very well isolated from the rest of the drivers. With 2-way designs, low-mid clarity can likely be improved, by using a separate subwoofer and crossing over both speakers and sub at around 80-120 Hz.

Small bookshelf type speakers really aren't able to reproduce low-mid bass accurately. When they are forced by design to do so, so that they sound full and balanced, they typically sacrifice midrange clarity, and the bass isn't the best it can be either. Some sort of subwoofer is necessary, IMO, to accurately reproduce the full range of sound, in any speaker system.

I'm no speaker expert. Just my intuitive opinions on the matter, so take them with a grain of salt.

 

[kid vic]

Listening to my new to me Dynaudio BM6p's there's a few pro's that are immediately clear over all my headphones:

1) Space, spreading sound between 2.5 feet (roughly) is way more natural a method of listening to music than cramming into your head and roughly 3 inches to either side max.
2) Bass, not more impactful than my TH600's (the feeling of them rumbling on your head rivals subwoofers in some ways), not better textured than my HE500's but incredibly articulate with the right amount of punch to keep you engaged.
3) Full sounding, I like neutral bright tuning for all my gear which seems to be the studio standard. These speakers are voiced very similarly to both my Sony MDR-7520 and AKG K7XX but have a fuller sound than both without coming across as thick like my HE500's
4) Definition, listening to "Sad Souvenirs" by the four tops everything sounds so well placed and distinct as if every member is perfectly spread out on a stage in front of me.
5) Harmonious, not saying Headphones aren't in harmony its just that with space it all goes hand in glove, firmly attached to another gloved hand. Hearing that slight interplay between speakers and your room makes it more seamless.

Now, this is a nearfield setup, if you were listening to a set of tower speakers in a large well treated room you might have slightly different opinions on a few points but my observation thus far is that my current headphone setup is not losing much except for a touch of natural ease overall.
The good thing with both the tuning of the speakers and there increased level of space and authority is that it lends itself to all types of music so that one setup will play Ramirez with the same deftness as Eric Clapton whereas with headphones I might pick my K240 or K340's for Clapton but HE500's for Ramirez. Obviously a few headphones are genre masters (K7XX,MDR-7520,HE500 out of my collection) but their are times where I might prefer the signature of one to the others. That could either be a pro or a con depending on your budget and how simple you like your life to be.
Which leads to my number one pro of headphones over speakers the ability to have as many subtly or drastically listening setups as you want but they can all fit on your desk or a bookshelf AND for less than a mid sized 2-channel setup. My HE500's cost the same amount as the Dynaudios ($450cad) and are run off of the same speaker amp's tabs so they are the closest comparison; once I add the cost of stands and cables for the BM6p's I have almost the same price as my AKG K240 sextetts. Thats 2 great headphones that rival summit-fi headphones for the same price as a pair of speakers that never go as low as the price I paid (normally the BM6's go for $900-$1,300cad); if I had paid the normal market price for them it would be the same as adding the price of most of my remaining head gear and it would still only be one system (albeit versatile) versus a wide range and combination of gear.

All in all I would rather have both my headphone collection and speaker setup over just one.


Edit: just realised this is my 800th post

 

[Pokemonn]

FYI this graph is "good sounding loudspeaker FR curve" made by Mr Ishii(famouse japanese audiophile). some may prefer it some may not. YMMV.

 

[LazyListener]

FYI this graph is "good sounding loudspeaker FR curve" made by Mr Ishii(famouse japanese audiophile). some may prefer it some may not. YMMV.

Well, it sure looks pretty, but looks like it wouldn't sound very good. I'm good with A and B, but -6 db at 10kHz? That's too much treble drop for me.

 

[Pokemonn]

Yes its description say curve may vary with room and various loudspeakers and music genres.
At least mr ishi is very experienced listing room architect, he concludes that from his experiences.