[pe3ucTop]

Hey there people, I'm completely new to the audiophile scene so I need a little bit of guidance.
 
The prevailing advice I've heard as a novice getting into photography was "get better glass over better camera"(when on budget) with the idea that, first, good glass gives you better pics, and second you can still use the better lenses on higher end cameras later, if you want to upgrade your system, as lenses don't get outdated as quickly as cameras. I was wondering what's the case with headphones and amps/dacs/sources?
 
If you had a set budget where would you spend it? Headphones? Amp/DAC? Source? Would you rather have an OK pair of headphones, with great dac/amp or great headphones and OK dac/amp? Or is it not as clearcut decision as it is in photography? Where should a novice focus his budget?
 
I am currently waiting for my Shure SRH840 I ordered last week. They are going to be my very first audiophile headphones and I am pretty excited to hear the difference between them and my current 10 bucks headphones.
 

 

[Papander]

Shure SRH840 is really easy to drive and doesn't need an amp.

 

[mudfoot]

 
Quote:

Hey there people, I'm completely new to the audiophile scene so I need a little bit of guidance.
 
The prevailing advice I've heard as a novice getting into photography was "get better glass over better camera"(when on budget) with the idea that, first, good glass gives you better pics, and second you can still use the better lenses on higher end cameras later, if you want to upgrade your system, as lenses don't get outdated as quickly as cameras. I was wondering what's the case with headphones and amps/dacs/sources?
 
If you had a set budget where would you spend it? Headphones? Amp/DAC? Source? Would you rather have an OK pair of headphones, with great dac/amp or great headphones and OK dac/amp? Or is it not as clearcut decision as it is in photography? Where should a novice focus his budget?
 
I am currently waiting for my Shure SRH840 I ordered last week. They are going to be my very first audiophile headphones and I am pretty excited to hear the difference between them and my current 10 bucks headphones.
 

 

I am new like you. I think you need to have a good foundation. Starting with quality music files. I have a Ipod, but recently bought a Cowon J3 mp3 player. To me its heads and shoulders above a ipod. Its more powerful and has customizable EQ settings. This is where this player shines. I just received my first amp today. Its a Electric Avenues PA2V2. I bought it because I was intrigued to see what an amp could do.It also has a lot of the positive reviews. The price wasn't bad either. So far I like it. Although I do need to make some slight EQ adjustments on my player. I definitely didnt need an amp. Im very happy with my AKG K550 and Cowon J3 combo. I had the headphones you ordered, but returned them. They didnt have the bass I was looking for. Depending on your taste in bass from what I've read a headphone amp can help in those areas. I think you can get away with out a really expensive amp. But thats just me. Just like photography, some people are really deep into this. I see nothing wrong with it. We all need some type of hobby. I'm into photography as well. When I go out birding, sometimes I'll see someone with a $800 camera body and $10,000 lens. So I understand your analogy. Were you interested in getting a portable or a desktop amp. There seem to be tons of options out there for both. Portable $30-120 and desktop $200-2000. Excuse my rambling. I hope you enjoy your headphones.

 

[fatestkid]

Personally for me a DAC/AMP is not an option because all my headphone/earphone use is on the go and I'm not willing to carry another item on top of my iphone. Having said that, I use IEMs so there isn't a need for an amp. I went from stock ipod earbuds to sony (mdrex81), then to etymotic (er6i), then to shure(300, se215, se115) and I have seen improvement going from one to another. I've also owned srh 440, 840 and srh 750dj and personally to me the 840 was the best sounding but 750dj would be the fun one. I sold all three of them however because they would hurt my head.
 
So in conlclusion I still think that having good audio files and a good pair of headphones should come first when you are talking about the $100-$500 price range. At this price range you will get most out of investing in headphones.
 

 

[bowei006]

For budgets $150 and below, it's more important to get the headphone first. As those are "USUALLY" easy to drive(ask first). With the proper high quality tracks and an iPod you can enjoy music better than a $80 headphone and $70 amp or Dac or combo. I say iPod as that is the only guaranteed thing to have decent headphone  out sound and power. Many computers have problems sonically with their headphone out be it not enough power, noise, distortion or whatever. Most can't tell the difference between 320kbps MP3(or equivalent lossy) vs Lossless, but what does matter is the source that the track came from. Most are downloaded illegally and have bad quality. I have seen friends with tracks that say 320kbps illegally downloaded that are plain as day to have been upconverted into 320kbps. iTunes and other online legal entities(get from good one's) offer great sounding tracks so get those if you can. CD's and lossless are also good.
 
For a budget of $250, the scale is tipping, more headphones in this range start to get iffy on proper amping. IT now depends on how hard the headphone you are looking at is amped. And you have to then debate to get an amp or the headphone. From my experience, at this point an $190 headphone and then amp would be the best bet..and then move up to a DAC

 

[IEMCrazy]

 
Quote:

Hey there people, I'm completely new to the audiophile scene so I need a little bit of guidance.
 
The prevailing advice I've heard as a novice getting into photography was "get better glass over better camera"(when on budget) with the idea that, first, good glass gives you better pics, and second you can still use the better lenses on higher end cameras later, if you want to upgrade your system, as lenses don't get outdated as quickly as cameras. I was wondering what's the case with headphones and amps/dacs/sources?
 
If you had a set budget where would you spend it? Headphones? Amp/DAC? Source? Would you rather have an OK pair of headphones, with great dac/amp or great headphones and OK dac/amp? Or is it not as clearcut decision as it is in photography? Where should a novice focus his budget?
 
I am currently waiting for my Shure SRH840 I ordered last week. They are going to be my very first audiophile headphones and I am pretty excited to hear the difference between them and my current 10 bucks headphones.
 

 
It depends on a given budget.   As with all things, audio and photography are systems.  your output is only as good as the weakest link in your chain.   The order of upgrades is determined by which link is the one currently holding back your other links.  In audio, as in photography, different components carry more weight than others though.  In photography is the entire resolving component other than the sensor.  If the glass is shoddy, you're not utilizing your sensors potential.  On the other hand getting tip end glass for a lousy sensor means that your glass is outresolving your sensor, and the camera can't capture all the data you're giving it.  The sensor now is the weak link.   But in most cases compared to lousy stock glass, you can always squeeze more out of your sensor with better glass, but you can't squeeze more out of the lousy glass with a better sensor.
 
In audio, your speakers/headphones are your ultimate resolving tool.  There's no point buying a DAC1 and a Ray Samuels if you're going to be driving $20 headphones.  The headphones can only resolve what the headphones can resolve.  So getting the headphones into high resolution is the first step since they're, ultimately, the point of the whole system.   The second part is making sure you're driving those headphones with the proper amount/type of power and control.  The amp becomes the second limiting factor, since the cans can only perform as well as the power you're feeding it (headphones are passive electronics-less devices, the amp is the actual engine they depend on.)  So think of the amp as "the other half of the headphone"  They're literally the engine, but it's the engine you can buy later and use whatever you have available in the mean-time. 
 
Finally comes the source: quality music rips, and a quality DAC to resolve it.  Once you have detailed speakers, being driven competently by a good amp (engine), the only thing left to worry about is to ensure that the signal you're feeding them is as good as they can resolve.  The DAC becomes the last step, since, even though your output is only as good as your DAC, so-so DACs can still outresolve low quality cans or amps.  No point upgrading the DAC without upgrading the amp & cans.
 

 

[scud80]

if i were starting from scratch again, i would spend as much on headphones as possible.  the only exception to this is if your budget allows electrostatics, which need specialized amps (and there really aren't any cheap ones unless you already have a speaker amp).  differences between headphones/speakers/source material (the actual sound files, not the cd player or dac) are going to dwarf variations in the rest of the chain.

 

[Taowolf51]

I'd rather have $500 headphones with a $100 amp than the other way around.

 

[bowei006]

 
Quote:

I'd rather have $500 headphones with a $100 amp than the other way around.

 
It matters on many factors..mainly what you currently already have. But yes I do know what you mean, if everything I had at that point was just capable..then my Q701 and an E11 would be nice and just enough. But many factors play into it all. There are many MSRP $500 headphones that are hard to drive.

 

[Taowolf51]

 
Quote:

 
 
It matters on many factors..mainly what you currently already have. But yes I do know what you mean, if everything I had at that point was just capable..then my Q701 and an E11 would be nice and just enough. But many factors play into it all. There are many MSRP $500 headphones that are hard to drive.

 
Of course, the amp being able to power the headphones properly is definitely a requirement.
 
To clarify, if given the choice and the freedom to choose what gear I'd get, I'd be happier with a $500 headphone and a $100 amp than the other way around. If the gear I got was random, it'd be a bit more risky.

 

[Cla55clown]

So the headphones would essentially be the lens in his photography analogy. I've heard a few times to try and have the amp and headphones in roughly the same price range. I.e., don't pair up a $500 headphone with a $80 amp. Any truth to this?

 

[bowei006]

 
Quote:

 
 
Of course, the amp being able to power the headphones properly is definitely a requirement.
 
To clarify, if given the choice and the freedom to choose what gear I'd get, I'd be happier with a $500 headphone and a $100 amp than the other way around. If the gear I got was random, it'd be a bit more risky.

 
It would be quite risky(don't want dem Beats Pro now) and plus we need to look at our own rigs first. My best computer or device that any consumer would have, or I would have if I didn't have any audiophile equipment would be adequate enough to connect an E11 up to and then a $500 headphone(that isn't too hard to drive). IT's a Macbook Pro if you are wondering which has very good sound for a part that comes standard.
 
But the price of the $500 range is still too high and too extremist of an example. If I had a $600 budget I would get an $400 headphone and then a $200 amp and DAC combo that I know would synergize well and has enough power for the headphone. But then even then I would need to look at my lifestyle and see if I want a portable or desktop unit which does change things around and etc. IT's very very hard to put a definite answer on it. Only thing I can say is that past a certain budget of say $300 is when you should not go all out on the headphone.

 

[bowei006]

 
Quote:

So the headphones would essentially be the lens in his photography analogy. I've heard a few times to try and have the amp and headphones in roughly the same price range. I.e., don't pair up a $500 headphone with a $80 amp. Any truth to this?

 
How would there not be? An $80 amp would usually not be able to amp most popular $500 headphones adequately. I know some people use the E10 with HD650's but those are usually newer audiophile's or one's that don't spend immense portions and budgets and what not to learn and stuff(not trying to put anyone down, just lack of a better term). The people I met with extensive experience with $500 headphones won't even look at $80 amps due to lack of sonic quality, seperation, clarity, etc(i missed a couple)
 
 
Remember I am just using examples here. Not all higher priced headhones are hard to drive.
 
You want to keep a ratio. At first when you start out the headphone should get the higher ratio. At the $250 headphone range however is when the DAC's come in. After that the ratio from my experience changes drastically with people getting equipment that starts to come close to the price of the headphones(everything is MSRP here) and after a certain point, the amps, DAC's, sources and everything that isn't the headhone starts to out ratio the headphone.
 
Sennheiser for example had demo sets out at an event with their HD800's. Their HD800's are $1.5K...the total setup however was over $25K worth of equipment

 

[Taowolf51]

Quote:

don't pair up a $500 headphone with a $80 amp. Any truth to this?
 

 
I'd say it depends on the headphone, but that is usually true.
The Fiio E9 (a $120 amp) and the O2 (a $50-$140 amp) are both immensely popular choices for headphones like the Denon D5000 ($700) and the Denon D7000 ($1000).
Of course, I'd say the Denon headphones are outliers, though I've heard very good things about the O2 ($140) and a number of higher end headphones.
I actually use my Optonica SM-4000U to power my D7000's, which I paid $165 for. Admittedly, though, that amp's original price (adjusting for inflation) would be around the $2000 mark.
The Optonica also does it *very* well, I'd say.
 
Quote:

 
Quote:

 
 
Of course, the amp being able to power the headphones properly is definitely a requirement.
 
To clarify, if given the choice and the freedom to choose what gear I'd get, I'd be happier with a $500 headphone and a $100 amp than the other way around. If the gear I got was random, it'd be a bit more risky.

 
It would be quite risky(don't want dem Beats Pro now) and plus we need to look at our own rigs first. My best computer or device that any consumer would have, or I would have if I didn't have any audiophile equipment would be adequate enough to connect an E11 up to and then a $500 headphone(that isn't too hard to drive). IT's a Macbook Pro if you are wondering which has very good sound for a part that comes standard.
 
But the price of the $500 range is still too high and too extremist of an example. If I had a $600 budget I would get an $400 headphone and then a $200 amp and DAC combo that I know would synergize well and has enough power for the headphone. But then even then I would need to look at my lifestyle and see if I want a portable or desktop unit which does change things around and etc. IT's very very hard to put a definite answer on it. Only thing I can say is that past a certain budget of say $300 is when you should not go all out on the headphone.

See above, the $500/$100 example isn't the most ideal, but it can work.

 

[MalVeauX]

 
Quote:

Hey there people, I'm completely new to the audiophile scene so I need a little bit of guidance.
 
The prevailing advice I've heard as a novice getting into photography was "get better glass over better camera"(when on budget) with the idea that, first, good glass gives you better pics, and second you can still use the better lenses on higher end cameras later, if you want to upgrade your system, as lenses don't get outdated as quickly as cameras. I was wondering what's the case with headphones and amps/dacs/sources?
 
If you had a set budget where would you spend it? Headphones? Amp/DAC? Source? Would you rather have an OK pair of headphones, with great dac/amp or great headphones and OK dac/amp? Or is it not as clearcut decision as it is in photography? Where should a novice focus his budget?
 
I am currently waiting for my Shure SRH840 I ordered last week. They are going to be my very first audiophile headphones and I am pretty excited to hear the difference between them and my current 10 bucks headphones.
 

Heya,
 
Get the best headphone you can. Use the highest quality source audio you can. Worry about DAC & AMP last in terms of budget. Your headphones will last through time if they're good. Electronics are easier to replace and don't add nearly as much to the end result sound as the overall presentation and quality of the headphone does. Quality audio first, quality headphone second.
 
Very best,