headphones and speakers
Mar 11, 2007 at 1:51 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 27
bobaroo

bobaroo

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Hi,
I am considering purchasing headphones, currently I listen to conventional speakers. If I get a amp with a crossfeed circuit will this give me a similar experience as if using speakers? Thanks Bob
 
Mar 11, 2007 at 3:10 AM Post #3 of 27
Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeg /img/forum/go_quote.gif
My problem is that I haven't found any speakers that sound nearly as good as good headphones.


you should really dig deeper then. it takes more cash, but there's no doubt that speakers are just plain better than headphones if you've got the cash to dish out on them. and that's a whole lot of money, if you include acoustic treatment etc. all you need with headphones is enough space for your amp and source and a nice comfy chair... the main reason i prefer them. don't wanna spend $10,000 on acoustic treatment, then an extra $10,000 on getting a speaker + amp combo that outperforms a $4000 headphone + amp combo.
 
Mar 11, 2007 at 3:28 AM Post #4 of 27
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thelonious Monk /img/forum/go_quote.gif
you should really dig deeper then. it takes more cash, but there's no doubt that speakers are just plain better than headphones if you've got the cash to dish out on them. and that's a whole lot of money, if you include acoustic treatment etc. all you need with headphones is enough space for your amp and source and a nice comfy chair... the main reason i prefer them. don't wanna spend $10,000 on acoustic treatment, then an extra $10,000 on getting a speaker + amp combo that outperforms a $4000 headphone + amp combo.


I'll keep on digging deeper and deeper, but so far I don't dig speakers.
tongue.gif
 
Mar 11, 2007 at 3:42 AM Post #6 of 27
No. It will make many recording sound a bit more like they would on speakers. The point is to solve a specific problem with recordings that haven't been made with headphones in mind rather than to imitate speakers IMO.

There are effects such as Dolby Headphones that actually try to imitate speakers. Of course, they fail but still... depending on the recording and your tastes, that might be a large improvement.
Yeah, these effects butcher the sound but then agains so do most rooms... if you want purity, you've got to stop striving for that speaker sound and find recordings that don't need speakers and a room to sound right to begin with.
 
Mar 11, 2007 at 4:20 AM Post #7 of 27
I went to a high end stereo shop; a small hole in the wall that specialized in tubes. His current display rig has a little printed placard that said something along the lines of "This builder designs a $50k amps ... These aren't them". Despite it "only" being $10K monoblocks, $10K floor speakers and some other outrageous source, the sound was so real it was spooky. The Live Jazz recording the shop owner had recorded sounded like you were in the audience. I'd never heard anything even close to it before. The owners comment was "the accoustics in this room are REALLY bad you should hear it in a decent room. Now I've never heard $5k headphones or even $1k so I can't comment on those but I know for $25K+ you can get some floor speakers/amp/source that can sound truly amazing.
 
Mar 11, 2007 at 5:35 AM Post #9 of 27
I'm split down the middle. Headphone for when I'm in the dorm, and speakers when I get back home. Would I want either one of them to completely replace the other if I could? I don't know. I haven't thought about it. I just enjoy them as they are.
 
Mar 11, 2007 at 5:54 AM Post #10 of 27
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thelonious Monk /img/forum/go_quote.gif
you should really dig deeper then. it takes more cash, but there's no doubt that speakers are just plain better than headphones if you've got the cash to dish out on them. and that's a whole lot of money, if you include acoustic treatment etc. all you need with headphones is enough space for your amp and source and a nice comfy chair... the main reason i prefer them. don't wanna spend $10,000 on acoustic treatment, then an extra $10,000 on getting a speaker + amp combo that outperforms a $4000 headphone + amp combo.


$10 000 on speakers that out performs a $4000 headphones system? That's a bit optimistic.

$100 000 would be more like it.
 
Mar 11, 2007 at 6:17 AM Post #12 of 27
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thelonious Monk /img/forum/go_quote.gif
you should really dig deeper then. it takes more cash, but there's no doubt that speakers are just plain better than headphones if you've got the cash to dish out on them. and that's a whole lot of money, if you include acoustic treatment etc. all you need with headphones is enough space for your amp and source and a nice comfy chair... the main reason i prefer them. don't wanna spend $10,000 on acoustic treatment, then an extra $10,000 on getting a speaker + amp combo that outperforms a $4000 headphone + amp combo.


I'm a huge fan and proponent of headphones, but I totally agree that the importance of room acoustics on speakers can't be stressed enough. With headphones, that's all built into the cup/pad design, thus eliminating a number of crucial variables: room acoustics (including dimensions and treatments), speaker placement, toe-in, vibration isolation, and seating position to name a few. Amp selection is also perhaps more crucial as ther are higher powers level involved & the complexity of driving crossovers, large woofers, etc. These are great advantages to headphones, since it makes it so much easier to attain high fidelity (especially in the low frequencies).

It's hard enough to find true synergy with just a source, headphone amp and headphones mated to our personal preferences...throw in another batch of variables and it can be a real mess. Most audiophiles and even dealers don't go to the trouble of exploring room treatments and optimal placement - and usually pay severely in sound quality. These problems are much complicated by large fullrange speakers, IMO. I recall countess photos on audiogon of $10K+ speakers crammed into corners or near walls with no serious treatment anywhere...a rug on the wall is not a serious treatment. Of course a top-tier headphone is going to cream a speaker system like that in terms of accuracy! My headphones creamed my speakers too, until I spent several weeks researching and optimizing things.

No headphone system will ever sound like a good speaker system, but also I've yet to hear a speaker system with enough room treatments to be as accurate in bass as a top tier headphone. Controlling fullrange bass in a traditional room is *hard*. Headphones are awesome for avoiding this problem.

BTW, you don't necessarily need $10,000 of room treatments to get excellent sound quality - as long as you're willing to sacrifice decor - the panels from GIK acoustics are cheap and very effective at roughly $50-$60 per 4'x2' panel. You could do a lot with just 14 panels in a small to medium sized room...the $10,000 on a speaker/amp combo may be pretty accurate, though.
 
Mar 11, 2007 at 12:04 PM Post #13 of 27
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thelonious Monk /img/forum/go_quote.gif
you should really dig deeper then. it takes more cash, but there's no doubt that speakers are just plain better than headphones if you've got the cash to dish out on them. and that's a whole lot of money, if you include acoustic treatment etc. all you need with headphones is enough space for your amp and source and a nice comfy chair... the main reason i prefer them. don't wanna spend $10,000 on acoustic treatment, then an extra $10,000 on getting a speaker + amp combo that outperforms a $4000 headphone + amp combo.


Headphones have their place but I prefer speakers also.BTW,praising speakers on a headphone forum is kind of like taking a knife into a gun fight.Its really not a good idea.
 
Mar 11, 2007 at 12:23 PM Post #14 of 27
Room acoustics is what drove me to the clutches of this evil place.

I was totally satisfied with my speaker system for all kinds of music in our old house. The instruments and singers were all laid out in 3-D space all across the room in front of me just as they should be. In movies the bullets would whiz by from front right to rear left, the birds would chirp in the trees around us just where the director out them. Pirates would run around in our attic above us. It was great!!

That was our old house.
 
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