[Galapac]

My Elrogs arrive today and shall see is they live up to the hype.
It seems well celebrated in this thread.

Is it me or do the Elrogs look like Magnum condoms?
If the Elrogs are male then it stands to reason that the WE 300B are female with those curves...

 

[ColSaulTigh]

My Elrogs arrive today and shall see is they live up to the hype.
It seems well celebrated in this thread.

Is it me or do the Elrogs look like Magnum condoms?
If the Elrogs are male then it stands to reason that the WE 300B are female with those curves...

XXL's to boot.

 

[nwavesailor]

Nice!
Glad to see MCRU sent a pair to you from across the pond. I don't want to lead the witness but I think you will be thrilled!!!

My backup pair should arrive soon.

 

[wjhen]

I stumbled upon this thread in Head-fi. I see a great admiration for Elrog 300B tubes. For more than over a year I use the Elrog 300B and Elrog 5U4G is my Border Patrol 300B SE amplifier, I also use an Elrog 274B in my Lampizator Atlantic TRP. To conclude, In all places I can use an Elrog tube, I have put one. Only the output tubes of the Atlantic TRP are Western Electric 350B and the driver tube of my amplifier is a WE417a. The Elrog tubes have replaced my Western Electric 300B, my Western Electric 274B, and my Western Electric 422a (5U4G).

That is not to say that I do not like the Western Electric tubes any more. Far from it. Western Electric and Elrog are generally after a different type of sound. And my system profits from a little bit of both.

Western Electric tubes produce a very fluid, elegant, airy and coherent 3D type of sound. It creates a wide and deep space in which the musical event takes place. All the nuances and microdynamic shifts are there, but you are less aware of them, because it presents music as whole event and not a collection of individual instruments. No other tube (I have heard) can do this as well as Western Electric. It is their unique selling point.

The Elrog tubes produce a dynamic, clear and immediate sound with incredible bass definition and control. Compared to the Elrog, the Western Electric tubes lack bass, are less clear, have much less control in complex musical passages, and have lower resolution. The resolution part is very important to me. Because to me, resolution equals good tone. It makes it very easy to hear the subtle nuances of each individual instrument. Instruments sound like real instruments. it is easy to distinguish between different types of guitars for instance. To me, only a high resolving tube can be tonally correct. And to me, the Elrog tubes outshine the Western Eletric tubes in terms of resolution and tone. The Elrog tubes can be played very loud without any listener fatigue because they are so tonally correct. Impressive.

The other aspect I love about Elrog is the ability to stay in control in complex musical passages. Bass stays defined, and all instruments stay locked in their sonic landscape. It is easy to follow instruments even during complex musical passages. The Western Electric tubes lag a bit behind, are sluggish when the going gets tough..

But, Elrog tubes do not have the fluidity, the elegance and the 3D sound that The Western Electric tubes present. And that type of sound has most certainly its charms as well.

After much experimentation I have settled for the Elrog tubes instead of the Western Electric tubes, but I use the WE350B and WE417a in places for which there are no Elrogs. That gives me at this moment the best of both worlds. Sometimes I switch between the Elrog 274B and the Western Electric 274B in my DAC. In my amplifier the Elrog 300B and 5U4G are firmly locked. But each system is different, musical tastes are different, and individual sound preferences are different. That is why I concentrated on the differences between Western Electric and Elrog. You can decide whether your system needs more Elrog of more Western Electric. That is it, hope it is in some way or another helpful.

 

[ARCXENOS]

I too, believe in elrog supremacy and await for the day they make a 6SN7 variant

 

[ThanatosVI]

I too, believe in elrog supremacy and await for the day they make a 6SN7 variant

Unfortunately this is not going to happen

 

[EagleWings]

It seems that there is a common consensus that the Elrogs are king. I'm happy to believe that, but I am not quite financially ready for a pair of Elrog 300Bs.

Can anyone suggest would be a good in-between from my PSVANE HiFi and the Elrogs for 300B?

Yes, the Linlai WE300B that you can buy for around $600. It is no giant slayer, but is a considerable upgrade over the entry level and affordable 300B tubes. It uses hanging filaments and is voiced more along the lines of the WE300B than the Elrog and should work well with your Tele.

 

[Hiker816]

Unfortunately this is not going to happen

Why not?

 

[ThanatosVI]

Why not?

I asked him directly last week and he won't produce any indirectly heated tubes.

 

[Hiker816]

I asked him directly last week and he won't produce any indirectly heated tubes.

That's unfortunate.

 

[paradoxper]

Addressing the 6SN7 craze:

I am getting emails asking about the 6SN7. And I also see that topic on the head-fi forum.

I am sorry but we will not make these. Let me give some explanation why and you can post this on the forum if you like.

Producing tubes is extremely difficult. A layman might think it should be easy to produce such ancient technology nowadays. But it is not. It is unlikely that any new company which does not yet have some production line and knowledge in this area will start making tubes. We have the production capability to make directly heated tubes. Indirectly heated tubes like the 6SN7, EL34, EL84, KT88, 12A*7 types, etc require a very different process and are a different category of tubes. The investment needed to build up a new production line from scratch for these is huge.

The signature sound of our tubes is due to the use of thoriated tungsten filaments in all types. We are the only producer of 300B variants and rectifiers which use such filaments. When I got in contact with the former Elrog company (before I took over) I discussed the idea of a thoriated filament 300B with the previous owner. I always preferred the sound qualities of thoriated tungsten filaments. The difference this makes is not only audible but can also be measured. Thoriated tungsten filament triodes show a more constant amplification factor independent of the signal amplitude. Oxide coated filaments show a slight compression of the amplification factor as the tubes are driven harder. This results in the fast and dynamic sound with high resolution in our tubes. The motivation behind the development the Elrog ER300B was to get this sound character which is usually only obtainable from transmitting type triodes. The goal was to get the sound of an 801A in a tube with 300B characteristics.

Indirectly heated tubes have a cathode which is yet different and cannot be made with the characteristics of thoriated tungsten filaments. Also the above mentioned compression of amplification factor is even more present in indirectly heated tubes.

The mission of my company is to make tubes with the best possible sound quality. This is only obtainable from directly heated tubes which are inherently more linear than indirectly heated tubes. And among the directly heated tubes those with thoriated tungsten filaments are superior.

I hope this helps to understand why I will not go this direction and expand the production to indirectly heated tube types. I am the sole proprietor of the company and wish to stay independent. Getting investors on board to build up such a production would change the company and bring pressure for growth and more profit. And any potential investor would most likely not engage if he analyses the market and risk of not getting any ROI. And if there would be a wealthy audiophile willing to do this without the need for profit, there would be other much more interesting things to develop with directly heated tubes. There are still more ideas how to push the sound envelope further.

So if you want to get more of the Elrog sound signature it makes more sense to get an amp which uses only tube types we produce. And if you like the ER300B sound, maybe check out the tube which it is modelled after. Be it old production 801A types and their variants 10, 10Y, VT25, VT62 or of course the Elrog types which are available as ER801A, ER801A-Mo and TM801A. Of course the amp needs to be designed for the 801A.

Best regards

Thomas

 

[ColSaulTigh]

Addressing the 6SN7 craze:

I am getting emails asking about the 6SN7. And I also see that topic on the head-fi forum.

I am sorry but we will not make these. Let me give some explanation why and you can post this on the forum if you like.

Producing tubes is extremely difficult. A layman might think it should be easy to produce such ancient technology nowadays. But it is not. It is unlikely that any new company which does not yet have some production line and knowledge in this area will start making tubes. We have the production capability to make directly heated tubes. Indirectly heated tubes like the 6SN7, EL34, EL84, KT88, 12A*7 types, etc require a very different process and are a different category of tubes. The investment needed to build up a new production line from scratch for these is huge.

The signature sound of our tubes is due to the use of thoriated tungsten filaments in all types. We are the only producer of 300B variants and rectifiers which use such filaments. When I got in contact with the former Elrog company (before I took over) I discussed the idea of a thoriated filament 300B with the previous owner. I always preferred the sound qualities of thoriated tungsten filaments. The difference this makes is not only audible but can also be measured. Thoriated tungsten filament triodes show a more constant amplification factor independent of the signal amplitude. Oxide coated filaments show a slight compression of the amplification factor as the tubes are driven harder. This results in the fast and dynamic sound with high resolution in our tubes. The motivation behind the development the Elrog ER300B was to get this sound character which is usually only obtainable from transmitting type triodes. The goal was to get the sound of an 801A in a tube with 300B characteristics.

Indirectly heated tubes have a cathode which is yet different and cannot be made with the characteristics of thoriated tungsten filaments. Also the above mentioned compression of amplification factor is even more present in indirectly heated tubes.

The mission of my company is to make tubes with the best possible sound quality. This is only obtainable from directly heated tubes which are inherently more linear than indirectly heated tubes. And among the directly heated tubes those with thoriated tungsten filaments are superior.

I hope this helps to understand why I will not go this direction and expand the production to indirectly heated tube types. I am the sole proprietor of the company and wish to stay independent. Getting investors on board to build up such a production would change the company and bring pressure for growth and more profit. And any potential investor would most likely not engage if he analyses the market and risk of not getting any ROI. And if there would be a wealthy audiophile willing to do this without the need for profit, there would be other much more interesting things to develop with directly heated tubes. There are still more ideas how to push the sound envelope further.

So if you want to get more of the Elrog sound signature it makes more sense to get an amp which uses only tube types we produce. And if you like the ER300B sound, maybe check out the tube which it is modelled after. Be it old production 801A types and their variants 10, 10Y, VT25, VT62 or of course the Elrog types which are available as ER801A, ER801A-Mo and TM801A. Of course the amp needs to be designed for the 801A.

Best regards

Thomas

I think Western Electric might be our best hope for a new 6SN7 (or variant). Have you been in touch with them yet?

 

[ThanatosVI]

I think Western Electric might be our best hope for a new 6SN7 (or variant). Have you been in touch with them yet?

I tried, but I never received a response.

Hope Paradoxper had more luck

 

[senseitedj]

Yes, the Linlai WE300B that you can buy for around $600. It is no giant slayer, but is a considerable upgrade over the entry level and affordable 300B tubes. It uses hanging filaments and is voiced more along the lines of the WE300B than the Elrog and should work well with your Tele.

Thanks for the advice, The Linlai was actually just what my friend recommended as a promising 'in-between'. Glad someone else in the forums feels the same.

 

[incredulousity]

Which Linlai? The Linlai Elite that I have sound great, but too gooey toooooooby at the expense of some detail to the PSVane CV-181-2 (sic).