[jthom320]

I have another thread here so I apologize but I'm very close and I'd like some thoughts.
 
First I know that the HD700 is a flawed headphone.  My main question here though is at 400 dollars if despite it's flaws it is still better then comparables.
 
A lot of the negativity I've seen surrounding it seems to be about the performance for it's price tag.  My question is if it's a better performer then similarly priced models like the AKG 712 pro.  This is the other set that I am seriously considering.
 
Using a Creative X7 as a DAC/AMP.    Thank you all.

 

[Rhamnetin]

I own the K7xx which is very, very similar to the K712, and I've auditioned to the HD 700 a few times.  The HD 700 is more transparent and even more detailed, and has a heftier bass presentation that sounds higher quality to me.  The HD 700's treble is what's most criticized about it, but I really have not listened to it extensively enough to comment on it and how it compared to my K7xx's treble (which is also flawed to my ears).
 
Between the two... tough call.  The HD 700 is bright at times due to treble peaks.  Does this concern you?  I'd buy a used HiFiMan HE-400i before either of those.  The HE-400i has a smaller sound stage, but greater transparency than both the HD 700 and K7xx in my opinion, and I find its mid range far more engaging.

 

[jthom320]

  I own the K7xx which is very, very similar to the K712, and I've auditioned to the HD 700 a few times.  The HD 700 is more transparent and even more detailed, and has a heftier bass presentation that sounds higher quality to me.  The HD 700's treble is what's most criticized about it, but I really have not listened to it extensively enough to comment on it and how it compared to my K7xx's treble (which is also flawed to my ears).
 
Between the two... tough call.  The HD 700 is bright at times due to treble peaks.  Does this concern you?  I'd buy a used HiFiMan HE-400i before either of those.  The HE-400i has a smaller sound stage, but greater transparency than both the HD 700 and K7xx in my opinion, and I find its mid range far more engaging.

Well that's the rub.  The treble peaks do concern me but I don't know if they'd bother me.  This is going to be used a lot in SBX (virtual surround) so I need it to not be harsh to listen to for long periods.  I also suspect that despite the treble peaks it's probably still a better sounding headphone then the 712 pro.  Not positive though.  I know when this thing is reviewed typicaly it's reviewed against it's price range not really where it currently sits price wise.
 
I've very seriously considered the HE-400i but I've kind of concluded that for my usage (gaming and movies with music being a fairly distant third) that it may not be the best option.  I'd love to try it at some point though.

 

[fjrabon]

 
Well that's the rub.  The treble peaks do concern me but I don't know if they'd bother me.  This is going to be used a lot in SBX (virtual surround) so I need it to not be harsh to listen to for long periods.  I also suspect that despite the treble peaks it's probably still a better sounding headphone then the 712 pro.  Not positive though.  I know when this thing is reviewed typicaly it's reviewed against it's price range not really where it currently sits price wise.
 
I've very seriously considered the HE-400i but I've kind of concluded that for my usage (gaming and movies with music being a fairly distant third) that it may not be the best option.  I'd love to try it at some point though.

be aware that the design on the HE400i has changed, and it has better soundstage now.  It's still forward sounding, but has great depth, and a very accurate soundstage.  

 

[Rhamnetin]

 
be aware that the design on the HE400i has changed, and it has better soundstage now.  It's still forward sounding, but has great depth, and a very accurate soundstage.  

 
Wow, I haven't heard of this.  I need to check the HE-400i thread more often.  Although I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised, the HE-400i's sound stage before was smaller than that of the HE-400 which was unexpected.  Planars with single sided magnetic structures are expected to have a larger sound stage than dual sided ones after all.

 

[fjrabon]

   
Wow, I haven't heard of this.  I need to check the HE-400i thread more often.  Although I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised, the HE-400i's sound stage before was smaller than that of the HE-400 which was unexpected.  Planars with single sided magnetic structures are expected to have a larger sound stage than dual sided ones after all.

yeah, I think my HE400i had basically the same soundstage as my old HD650 did.  The HE400i is more forward, but the same size, just shifted.  
 
here's the thread discussing the change:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/791185/new-he400i-driver-housing-design-or-just-a-mixup-with-he400s-drivers

 

[jthom320]

 
be aware that the design on the HE400i has changed, and it has better soundstage now.  It's still forward sounding, but has great depth, and a very accurate soundstage.  

Head to head the HD700 still destroys it in that aspect though correct?  Or is it close?
 
If it's close on the newer models I'd actually probably buy a 400i.  Could you give me a comparable.  I'm using a 598 right now if you've ever heard those to compare.

 

[fjrabon]

 
Head to head the HD700 still destroys it in that aspect though correct?  Or is it close?
 
If it's close on the newer models I'd actually probably buy a 400i.  Could you give me a comparable.  I'm using a 598 right now if you've ever heard those to compare.

I think the soundstage is the same size on the 598 and 400i, the accuracy is greater on the 400i.  the 400i is more forward though.  Imagine you are in the same mid-size venue, with the 598 you are standing by the soundstage, with the 400i you are on the 5th row. 
 
The HD700 sounds wonky to me as far as imaging goes.  It's got all these weird peaks and valleys in the treble, that you can have someone play a scale and it sounds like it "moves" forward and back.  It's a very, very large soundstage (much larger than the HE400i, HD598 or HD600), but I don't find it coherent or accurate. 

 

[jthom320]

 
I think the soundstage is the same size on the 598 and 400i, the accuracy is greater on the 400i.  the 400i is more forward though.  Imagine you are in the same mid-size venue, with the 598 you are standing by the soundstage, with the 400i you are on the 5th row. 
 
The HD700 sounds wonky to me as far as imaging goes.  It's got all these weird peaks and valleys in the treble, that you can have someone play a scale and it sounds like it "moves" forward and back.  It's a very, very large soundstage (much larger than the HE400i, HD598 or HD600), but I don't find it coherent or accurate. 

Hmm.  Wish I could justify buying the HD800.  
 
I appreciate the input though.  I'm going to have to do more research I think.

 

[fjrabon]

 
Hmm.  Wish I could justify buying the HD800.  
 
I appreciate the input though.  I'm going to have to do more research I think.

yeah, for me the issue with the HD800 was A) amping requirements and B) I still found it personally a bit too bright.  If it was easier to amp and had a bit more bass, I'd have bought it already.  I'm hoping that is the HiFiMan edition X, which could potentially end up being my end game.

 

[jthom320]

 
yeah, for me the issue with the HD800 was A) amping requirements and B) I still found it personally a bit too bright.  If it was easier to amp and had a bit more bass, I'd have bought it already.  I'm hoping that is the HiFiMan edition X, which could potentially end up being my end game.

Any quick thoughts on HE 560s?  Soundstage and imaging would be important.  

 

[fjrabon]

 
Any quick thoughts on HE 560s?  Soundstage and imaging would be important.  

I haven't had a chance to hear them, sorry.  The HE560 had much greater soundstage according to most than the old HE400i, but again, that was the version with a backplate.  This is also such a new change that almost nobody has heard them head to head.  The change happened right before black friday.

 

[jthom320]

 
I haven't had a chance to hear them, sorry.  The HE560 had much greater soundstage according to most than the old HE400i, but again, that was the version with a backplate.  This is also such a new change that almost nobody has heard them head to head.  The change happened right before black friday.

I just read some reviews.  For a Planar it seems like it has a great soundstage.
 
Thing is that's like my number one requirement so it just would seem silly to spend that kind of money on something that's probably not too much an improvement over what I have in that specific respect.  
 
I wish the HD700 wasn't so wonky because I love the idea behind it, I really like all Senn's I've heard and I really like the price.  Oh well.  

 

[Rhamnetin]

HE-560 sound stage is significantly larger than the HE-400i, they aren't even close.  It images better too.  Likewise I found it more precise in this regard compared to the HD 700, and perhaps wider, but I never compared them side by side.  HiFiMan has defied the "planars have a closed in sound stage" plenty of times.  The HE-500 wasn't closed in to my ears, and both the HE-560 and HE-6 have a very large sound stage (HE-560 larger but less precise).  The HE1000 has one of the absolute best sound stages I've ever heard in a headphone, along with some of the best imaging capabilities. 
 
The HE-560 is a great headphone if you go that route, the best sub $1000 headphone I've ever heard.  With mods people like it more than more expensive headphones like the HD 800 and HE-6.  See this thread:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/738912/he-560-enhancement-mod-v1-5
 
The grill mod is very simple, and it would also be easy to try new pads like FocusPad-A or maybe Audeze vegan pads.

 

[fjrabon]

HE-560 sound stage is significantly larger than the HE-400i, they aren't even close.  It images better too.  Likewise I found it more precise in this regard compared to the HD 700, and perhaps wider, but I never compared them side by side.  HiFiMan has defied the "planars have a closed in sound stage" plenty of times.  The HE-500 wasn't closed in to my ears, and both the HE-560 and HE-6 have a very large sound stage (HE-560 larger but less precise).  The HE1000 has one of the absolute best sound stages I've ever heard in a headphone, along with some of the best imaging capabilities. 

The HE-560 is a great headphone if you go that route, the best sub $1000 headphone I've ever heard.  With mods people like it more than more expensive headphones like the HD 800 and HE-6.  See this thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/738912/he-560-enhancement-mod-v1-5

The grill mod is very simple, and it would also be easy to try new pads like FocusPad-A or maybe Audeze vegan pads.

Those impressions are based on the old he400i design though. The 400i now has the same soundstage as the 400s, which a lot of people thought has the same soundstage as the he560