[carlo]

mac,

i see your point about an objective summary, but how about making a link on the page of summaries to the thread where people pitched in their opinions?

point #2: mac, sometimes i wonder if you realize that moderators aren't above members. if you do realize that, i suggest you take our suggestions and think about it instead of calling them paranoid. it isn't about paranoia, its about doing it right.

carlo.

EDIT: suggestion #2
You have a main page with products, on this same page you can announce when new products come out (head-fi announcements about new items links to this products page). have your summary here if you want to.

click on a product name and a thread with specs, retail price, info about the company, etc comes up (you could do retailers who sell it as well, but that may open the door for issues). on that page people can post comments/ask questions like: "bought one and love it.", "i think its overpriced as hell and here's why", "can this headphone be driven straight out of a headphone jack?", stuff like that.

it'd be the definitive way to get info about a headphone.

now you have four pennies.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by carlo i see your point about an objective summary, but how about making a link on the page of summaries to the thread where people pitched in their opinions?

I think that's a great idea -- that's what I was getting at when I suggested putting the summary at the beginning of the feedback thread, so that after reading the summary, the reader could browse through the thread to see where the comments came from. But I like your idea better, since then the summaries would be on a web page, and the feedback threads would be in the forum.

 

[kerelybonto]

[MacDEF, maybe split this out of markl's thread -- it's really a different discussion.]

carlo, I think the point here is exactly to present a 'homogenized' opinion. So often in threads asking for recommendations we get various people offering their individual opinions, many of which conflict. The idea of a 'recommended' list would be to present an encompassing overview. I think a recommended summary should include

1. Pricing and Availability: How much does it cost? Is it still in production? Where can you buy one? If you can buy online, provide links. (Like Stereophile, we may want to limit recommendations to readily available components.)
2. Sound Summary: What does the thing sound like? Note that it's a consensus opinion and that more information can be found on the forum. Provide links to full reviews and to a pre-created search page.
3. Amplification: Does it need a dedicated headamp? Which pair well with it? Provide links to reviews, search, etc, about suggested amps. If we do a recommended list for headamps, that would get mention here too.
4. Nuances: Things like how dependent it is on upstream components, etc.
5. Other Recommended Headphones: Provide links to the other recommended headphones, perhaps with a brief comparison to each.

Repeat annually. And I really think it's important for this to exist as a webpage, not a forum thread. It would be really, really valuable for someone searching the internet about a certain headphone to end up at Head-Fi -- right now that doesn't happen. (By the way, jude, maybe add certain headphone manufacturer/model names to the <meta name="keywords"> tag.) It would not be difficult to create a template page that matches the Head-Fi homepage exactly and stick the links below the forum links or something.

kerely

 

[markl]

Quote:

# Sound Summary: What does the thing sound like? Note that it's a consensus opinion and that more information can be found on the forum. Provide links to full reviews and to a pre-created search page.

With all due respect, I would rather not entrust MacDEF, for example, to be the editor and arbiter of how the CD3000 or the R10 sound, and how that information is selectively presented. Moderators are certainly not above having strong opinions and unconsciously using their editorial powers to summarize opinions that mostly gel with their own.

How about this:

1. After a general description of the product (price, measurements, data, marketing fluff lifted from their web pages), we have two separate threads:

2. "CD3000 Pro"

3. "CD3000 Con"

The Pro and Con threads contain *informed* and well-written comments on the product in question. I think these threads should never be closed, but should be heavily moderated for irrelevant comments and side-discussions.

One other thing to consider about these threads---

1. Newbies come here most likely looking for opinions on a specific headphone.

2. They usually ask for advice, and are well-treated by members and they get involved in the community and stick around to get further involved in the hobby.

3. I think that a "definitive" section (or what would surely *appear* to be a definitive section from us, the headphone geek "experts") on each of the headphones *discourages* new members from getting involved by providing "one-stop shopping". They'll scan the thread, make their choice, leave and never come back.

MacDEF, I think you are pooh-poohing the significance of such threads, and you ought to hear the voices of the Members on this.

More food for thought.

Mark

 

[KR...]

I rather have Jude have the final say here, and just use the mods as puppets due to him not having enough free time to do it himself and not make the mods editors of taste and content. They should all play a totally neutral role in this. They should always be neutral for everything, always, but but as you all know that almost never happens.

 

[bkelly]

Mark,

That is a legitimate concern that this could easily be reduced to a shopping list and would not encourage newcomers to stay and get involved in the process. I don't know what the answer is to this but it's an important concern.

Of course, for some people that will be all they want, just pick from a list and go on about their business.






Best
Brian

 

[shivohum]

Quote:

1. After a general description of the product (price, measurements, data, marketing fluff lifted from their web pages), we have two separate threads: 2. "CD3000 Pro" 3. "CD3000 Con"

Markl, I agree with your idea and your objections to the "summary" format. A summary format inevitably distorts, and, while they can be valuable, they are idiosyncratic. Thus having an official summary seems to me way out of line. Any particular person who wants to summarize views is welcome to do so, of course. Just don't make it official.

If we want to have a space where people have relatively equal voices, I would say that in the Pro and Con threads, each person should get a maximum of 1 post, and limit that to, say, 75 words and 3 links. This they should be able to edit at any time. That will ensure that people can actually browse through the morass with some decent speed.

It might also be nice to have a thread or two on, say "best system under <$500" or the like.

It would definitely be good to have a simple standard format. People should specify with what system they heard the component in question, how long they were able to listen, and perhaps also give a simple rating from 1 to 10. This would enable people to search for ratings which were particularly low or high, etc.

UBB 6.0 has user ratings, too, I think. It would be neat if the most interesting little snippets could be user-rated so that users could search for the highest-rated snippets, regardless of where they lay in the thread.

Finally, it would be a good thing to have a "maintainer" for each component thread who would maintain specs, add in news of any specials or deals on the component, and link to off-site reviews say at Stereophile, Audio Review, Epinions, or the like.

 

[kerelybonto]

I thought about that and dismissed it. It's my belief that Head-Fi is here to provide an information resource about headphones, not to be a self-propogating, useless entity. And there are already countless readers who browse Head-Fi, find what they want, and leave.

kerely

[Edit: This was directed toward markl and bkelly's comments two posts up. markl and shivohum posted as I wrote.]

 

[markl]

Quote:

It's my belief that Head-Fi is here to provide an information resource about headphones, not to be a self-propogating, useless entity

How does promoting headphones and the enjoyment of music and audio make us a "self-propogating and useless entity"?

This makes us *more* useful to newbies. Has Head-Fi been "useless" to you? Or, have you in fact settled in and become a "Member" of our community? I believe you have. Has that not brought you enjoyment? Yes, it has.

Besides, how can we, in good conscience, allow a newbie to get away with a KSC-35 and a Total Airhead?

We all know that an HD600 and a Headroom Max is much better for his/her long-term, personal well-being. Where's your humanity, man?

Mark

 

[TimSchirmer]

I think it might also be smart for all of us to review our stuff on Audioreview.com, as a lot of non-audiophiles get their information from that site.

 

[kerelybonto]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl How does promoting headphones and the enjoyment of music and audio make us a "self-propogating and useless entity"?

Okay, there's something to be said for using a format that draws people deeper in the hobby and forces them to become more involved. (Head-Fi as the flypaper of headphone interest: not an inappropriate analogy.) But your and bkelly's comments suggest that it's preferable to increase Head-Fi activity at the expense of giving people what they come here for: easy access to information and opinions about headphones. That's what I meant by 'self-propogating and [consequently] useless.'

Back to the discussion -- I still think the recommendations should be static until they're completely reasssed the next year. The whole of Head-Fi offers an interactive setting for discussing the pros and cons of headphone components. The whole point of a recommended list is to summarize prevailing opinion into something less than the near-200,000 posts on the forum.

And another important reason for recommendations to be off-forum is so they can be located by search engines. Does no one else think it's tragic that a search for anything other than the word 'headphones' will not give Head-Fi as a result?

kerely

 

[markl]

This thread just kinda died...

Maybe it's the title?

This was broken off at my request from the Stereophile letter thread. This is surely a worthy topic of discussion.

Hey, MacDEF????

Mark

 

[andrzejpw]

So, basically, what we are saying:

Have a new forum, with discussion for a particular model
Ex: CD3000 Pro, CD3000 con. We would then discuss the merits of the phones, their particular sound, and a consensus would be reached. (

)

A general writeup would be made, and posted as a general review.

Newbies would flock to this page, read, see what they want, leave, while leaving the forum open for more in-depth discussion.

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl This thread just kinda died... Maybe it's the title?

The title has been changed. Hopefully that will stimulate more interest. If not, the next title will be "help pick the Playmate of the Year"

 

[markl]

Ha ha ha... Thanks, Hirsch!

Mark