[StanD]

 
Are you strictly against the Skyn, StanD? I've seen you and DrSheep debating a lot (for which most of the terminology I don't understand), and you seem to be against the Skyn and more in favour of other DACs. Is there a reason for this, I'm very curious to know different people's standpoints.

Not at all, I'm Pro Choice (hehehe). I'm just correcting the business of compatibility and the CCK. As far as Skyn goes, it looks like a nice product with the one problem that I stated, form factor that fits only one phone.

 

[Scotty141]

  Scott, it's not confirmed but I think you can at least ask.  Or you can plan on a three way upgrade when the 7 is out: get the Skyn for 5, then sell your 5 and get a used iTouch 5th gen for the Skyn and a 6; then sell the 6 when 7 comes out.

I apologise if I'm getting fustrated to talk to... Though I do really appreciate all the help and advice you've given me!
 
I thought I'd ask you first in case you knew. I currently have the iPhone 6, so I don't think the iPod Touch would fit the iPhone 6 model, unless Apple release a new iTouch - which I suppose is likely since the 5th gen is very outdated.

 

[Scotty141]

  Not at all, I'm Pro Choice (hehehe). I'm just correcting the business of compatibility and the CCK. As far as Skyn goes, it looks like a nice product with the one problem that I stated, form factor that fits only one phone.

 
Ah ok! Yes that's the only worry I have with it. I've not experienced 'sandwiching' a DAC and phone together, but I assume from the comments it's not nice? The Skyn is getting a lot of praise for being all in-house, which sounds nice, but is having an external DAC really that bad? I like the sound of having one that I can use with multiple devices, but if it's really that bad to have an external one then I suppose the Skyn is the way to go, and upgrade for $200 each time (if that's a service they're willing to offer with future phone models)

 

[StanD]

   
Ah ok! Yes that's the only worry I have with it. I've not experienced 'sandwiching' a DAC and phone together, but I assume from the comments it's not nice? The Skyn is getting a lot of praise for being all in-house, which sounds nice, but is having an external DAC really that bad? I like the sound of having one that I can use with multiple devices, but if it's really that bad to have an external one then I suppose the Skyn is the way to go, and upgrade for $200 each time (if that's a service they're willing to offer with future phone models)

The Skyn is neater and more attractive than sandwiching, but keep in mind the Skyn will make your phone larger and heavier, there is no ideal magical solution. I think the biggest weakness in phones is the Amp, many times the DACs are decent enough. Keep in mind when on a bus, plane or train, the ambient noise will detract from percieving true fidelity so one might wonder the value of spending too much for what may not be appreciated. I much prefer open back cans, which on the road is useless but I can get away with using them at the office since I"m not close enough to other people to annoy them with leakage and thus can use a small desktop DAC/Amp solution.
What is the impedance of the CIEMs that you are getting?

 

[DrSheep]

Scott you are doing fine. I used to stack too, but it gets tiring quick: bands/tapes/Velcro, different interconnect cables, multiple chargers, size, etc. And to be honest with you, it isn't even about the Skyn, but it is just that it is the best for the buck now for an Apple DAC.

 

[Scotty141]

  The Skyn is neater and more attractive than sandwiching, but keep in mind the Skyn will make your phone larger and heavier, there is no ideal magical solution. I think the biggest weakness in phones is the Amp, many times the DACs are decent enough. Keep in mind when on a bus, plane or train, the ambient noise will detract from percieving true fidelity so one might wonder the value of spending too much for what may not be appreciated. I much prefer open back cans, which on the road is useless but I can get away with using them at the office since I"m not close enough to other people to annoy them with leakage and thus can use a small desktop DAC/Amp solution.
What is the impedance of the CIEMs that you are getting?

 
I'm actually a fan of having a more bulky and heavier phone. I've always had a Mophie case so I suppose I've just got used to it. In fact, I don't like it without it on because I feel it's too thin - so I can't imagine the Skyn will be a problem for me - other than the extra bit at the bottom which just looks odd to me.
 
Interesting point about the ambient noise. The impedance is 26 Ohms... not sure what that means?

 

[Scotty141]

Scott you are doing fine. I used to stack too, but it gets tiring quick: bands/tapes/Velcro, different interconnect cables, multiple chargers, size, etc. And to be honest with you, it isn't even about the Skyn, but it is just that it is the best for the buck now for an Apple DAC.

Ah ok, I don't have the experience so I suppose I don't understand the struggle many audiophiles have faced. Thank you for the honesty, in fairness it does look very good value for money, especially if they reach the 'super-amp' stretch goal! I'm glad you brought it to my attention, otherwise I never would have known about it or been able to consider it!

 

[StanD]

   
I'm actually a fan of having a more bulky and heavier phone. I've always had a Mophie case so I suppose I've just got used to it. In fact, I don't like it without it on because I feel it's too thin - so I can't imagine the Skyn will be a problem for me - other than the extra bit at the bottom which just looks odd to me.
 
Interesting point about the ambient noise. The impedance is 26 Ohms... not sure what that means?

I'm told that the DAC and Amp in the iPhone 6 are pretty good, only the impedance is not low enough to drive some very low impedance BA IEMs. Following the 8:1 ratio for damping ratio you would need to use an amp having an output impedance of 3.25 or less Ohms which might be OK with an iPhone 6. I have an iPod Touch 5G which does surprisingly well, it doesn't have much output power for hungry low impedance headphones but does very well otherwise. The amp has very low noise and distortion, I would suspect that the iPhone 6 might be better.
I'm very pleased with the Touch 5G and got it because of recommendations. I've used it with the Lightning CCK cable to a variety of DACs, each one worked. My Bifrost required a powered USB Hub, others did not require the powered Hub.

 

[Scotty141]

  I'm told that the DAC and Amp in the iPhone 6 are pretty good, only the impedance is not low enough to drive some very low impedance BA IEMs. Following the 8:1 ratio for damping ratio you would need to use an amp having an output impedance of 3.25 or less Ohms which might be OK with an iPhone 6. I have an iPod Touch 5G which does surprisingly well, it doesn't have much output power for hungry low impedance headphones but does very well otherwise. The amp has very low noise and distortion, I would suspect that the iPhone 6 might be better.
I'm very pleased with the Touch 5G and got it because of recommendations. I've used it with the Lightning CCK cable to a variety of DACs, each one worked. My Bifrost required a powered USB Hub, others did not require the powered Hub.

Very interesting... thank you for letting me know! What's a "8:1 ratio for damping ratio"? I tried googling "damping ratio" but none of it made any sense to me... And why is it 8:1? Does the fact that my CIEMS will have 10 drivers make any difference?
 
Also, is 26 Ohms defined as a 'low impedance' you specified or not? And is a low impedance good? I'm really not sure about this stuff, sorry... I know the EarPods that I use at the moment (YES I know, please don't crucify me) has an impedance of 23 Ohms.

 

[StanD]

 
Very interesting... thank you for letting me know! What's a "8:1 ratio for damping ratio"? I tried googling "damping ratio" but none of it made any sense to me... And why is it 8:1? Does the fact that my CIEMS will have 10 drivers make any difference?
 
Also, is 26 Ohms defined as a 'low impedance' you specified or not? And is a low impedance good? I'm really not sure about this stuff, sorry... I know the EarPods that I use at the moment (YES I know, please don't crucify me) has an impedance of 23 Ohms.

The damping ratio is to control any excess movement of the transducer due to inertia which can be a problem for bass. Magnetic planars are less affected by this and some dynamics have plenty of mechanical or magnetic damping. 26 Ohms are in the realm of low impedance, I wouldn't crucify anyone, unless they are using Beats - lol. What is the impedance of your 10 driver CIEMs?

 

[DrSheep]

 
Ah ok, I don't have the experience so I suppose I don't understand the struggle many audiophiles have faced. Thank you for the honesty, in fairness it does look very good value for money, especially if they reach the 'super-amp' stretch goal! I'm glad you brought it to my attention, otherwise I never would have known about it or been able to consider it!

Yeah no problem.  As for impedance matching, you don't have to worry about it with the Skyn, as it is less than 1 ohm.  The 8:1 ratio is that if your IEM is 32 ohms, the output impedance of the DAC/DAP/AMP should not be higher than 32 / 8 = 4 ohms (lower the better.)  Of course this is more of a guide and not an exact rule as there are exceptions, like the V-Moda VERZA and M-100 (10 out into 32 ohms.)

 

[Scotty141]

  The damping ratio is to control any excess movement of the transducer due to inertia which can be a problem for bass. Magnetic planars are less affected by this and some dynamics have plenty of mechanical or magnetic damping. 26 Ohms are in the realm of low impedance, I wouldn't crucify anyone, unless they are using Beats - lol. What is the impedance of your 10 driver CIEMs?

 
Ah right okay, understood! Thank you for explaining!
 
So is low impedance better than a high impedance? Yes, even me with my EarPods at the moment would crucify someone with Beats, I know that much!
 
My 10 driver CIEMs has the 26 Ohms impedance - that was what I was referring to before; think there may have been some confusion somewhere earlier
 

  Yeah no problem.  As for impedance matching, you don't have to worry about it with the Skyn, as it is less than 1 ohm.  The 8:1 ratio is that if your IEM is 32 ohms, the output impedance of the DAC/DAP/AMP should not be higher than 32 / 8 = 4 ohms (lower the better.)  Of course this is more of a guide and not an exact rule as there are exceptions, like the V-Moda VERZA and M-100 (10 out into 32 ohms.)

 
Interesting... I'm learning a lot here, a lot to absorb. So a lower output impedance in a DAC/DAP/AMP is better, so what's the case for CIEMs/headphones. Is high impedance or low impedance better? I just asked StanD the same question above ^ since the reference has popped up twice

 

[DrSheep]

Not necessary better or worse, but for high impedance headphones, you do need something with enough power to drive it.  In general, most IEMs or Headphone you see out there is around 32 ohms, which is pretty easy to drive and works great for phones and DAPs.  One the other end like the Sennheiser HD800, which is 300 ohms, will require something decently powerful to drive, which means if you plug the HD800 straight into your iPhone, it is going to sound like crap due to the lack of power.  Also, higher impedance doesn't necessary means higher grade, as some of the other high end headphones like Audeze LCD-2/3/X are only 32 ohms.

 

[Scotty141]

Not necessary better or worse, but for high impedance headphones, you do need something with enough power to drive it.  In general, most IEMs or Headphone you see out there is around 32 ohms, which is pretty easy to drive and works great for phones and DAPs.  One the other end like the Sennheiser HD800, which is 300 ohms, will require something decently powerful to drive, which means if you plug the HD800 straight into your iPhone, it is going to sound like crap due to the lack of power.  Also, higher impedance doesn't necessary means higher grade, as some of the other high end headphones like Audeze LCD-2/3/X are only 32 ohms.

Ah ok I understand now! So an iPhone 6 should be able to power a set of CIEMs at 26 Ohms pretty well? Would you say there's no need for a DAC, but one is advised to be able to pump up the volume more and listen to my lossless tracks properly? Would you say that's about right?

 

[StanD]

   
Ah right okay, understood! Thank you for explaining!
 
So is low impedance better than a high impedance? Yes, even me with my EarPods at the moment would crucify someone with Beats, I know that much!
 
My 10 driver CIEMs has the 26 Ohms impedance - that was what I was referring to before; think there may have been some confusion somewhere earlier
 
 
Interesting... I'm learning a lot here, a lot to absorb. So a lower output impedance in a DAC/DAP/AMP is better, so what's the case for CIEMs/headphones. Is high impedance or low impedance better? I just asked StanD the same question above ^ since the reference has popped up twice

As the 'Doc has just said, impedance isn't an indicator of good or bad SQ. High impedance can be more difficult to drive because that requires a greater voltage swing from the amp to deliver the same amount of power as in a situation of lower impedance. Due to limitations of circuit design there may not be enough voltage capability in the power supply or output drivers. That is why you see many amps that can deliever lots of power at low impedances and less at high impedances.
Of course portable battery operated equipment will face this issue with greater challenges, some handle this better than others.