[gooeyrich]

Gentleman, can anyone clarify what is sufficient power to get the Beyer 600 ohm cans to their full potential? We've been having a discussion in the last few pages of this thread regarding the matter for reference: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-beyerdynamic-dt880-discussion-thread.429371/page-780

 

[Chris Kaoss]

Hi.
100mW to 300mW at 13 volts are a good point to start with.
The higher the volts the better.
Voltage is key on higher ohms, not only the raw power.

 

[castleofargh]

Gentleman, can anyone clarify what is sufficient power to get the Beyer 600 ohm cans to their full potential? We've been having a discussion in the last few pages of this thread regarding the matter for reference: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-beyerdynamic-dt880-discussion-thread.429371/page-780

Based on this https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT880600ohm.pdf , you'd get the usual upper target of 115dB SPL with about 9V or 140mW.
Tyll's pair at the time seemed to give him 93.6dB/mW.


On beyer's site you find this explanation of their lacking specs:

The power handling capacity refers to the electrical power that can be supplied to the headphones/loudspeaker without causing damage to them.
Important: While the maximum power handling capacity designates the maximum power that can be supplied to the product for a short time, the nominal power handling capacity describes the maximum power that will be tolerated by the product, even when permanently operating.

So with the 880 600ohm version apparently given as:
Nominal SPL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 96 dB
Power handling capacity. . . . . . . . . . 100 mW

And innerfidelity's values, you would want to avoid going beyond around 113.5dB SPL with them.
I have no idea how reliable those measurements or specs are. And of course that 100mW limit, if accurate, doesn't mean you can't go and get amps with a much much higher maximum output into 600ohm. Just don't let kids play with the volume ^_^.

 

[gooeyrich]

Hi.
100mW to 300mW at 13 volts are a good point to start with.
The higher the volts the better.
Voltage is key on higher ohms, not only the raw power.

Based on this https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT880600ohm.pdf , you'd get the usual upper target of 115dB SPL with about 9V or 140mW.
Tyll's pair at the time seemed to give him 93.6dB/mW.


On beyer's site you find this explanation of their lacking specs:

So with the 880 600ohm version apparently given as:
Nominal SPL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 96 dB
Power handling capacity. . . . . . . . . . 100 mW

And innerfidelity's values, you would want to avoid going beyond around 113.5dB SPL with them.
I have no idea how reliable those measurements or specs are. And of course that 100mW limit, if accurate, doesn't mean you can't go and get amps with a much much higher maximum output into 600ohm. Just don't let kids play with the volume ^_^.

Thank you for the feedback, do you think the Atom is sufficient? I can't seem to find the voltage on the specs:

https://jdslabs.com/product/atom-amp/

 

[SoundAndMotion]

Thank you for the feedback, do you think the Atom is sufficient? I can't seem to find the voltage on the specs:

https://jdslabs.com/product/atom-amp/

Yes:

 

[Chris Kaoss]

Thank you for the feedback, do you think the Atom is sufficient? I can't seem to find the voltage on the specs:

https://jdslabs.com/product/atom-amp/

Not really, imo.
The specs mentioned by SoundandMotion are the max output specs.
I'd recommend higher than 10volts for such a high impedance headphone.

As i stated for the T1, the impedance of the dynamic driver got a hugh swing on certain frequencies.
For the T1, it rises up to nearly 1300ohm between 50Hz and 110Hz.
As you can see on the paper from innerfidelity, the 880 600 rises up to 750ohm.
So these are the specs you should calculate with.

A nice quote from RAA:
"
The resistance affects the amount of current that the amplifier should give to the headphones. If the current is not enough, the sound quality will deteriorate, beginning with harsh in the sound and ending with a crackling. In most cases, at low current values, the amplifiers operate in comparable quality to class A, and as the current level rises, the quality decreases toward AB, B, and the clipping zone.

Imagine that you have a water tank, which gradually fills with water. The voltage from the amplifier this is the pressure with which the pump draws water from the reservoir. If the inflow of water in the tank is lower than the volume that the pump pumps out, then at the pump outlet we collect water and "bubbles". Similarly will be with the sound from the headphones, which are lacked the current from the amplifier."
[Quote off]

 

[castleofargh]

Not really, imo.
The specs mentioned by SoundandMotion are the max output specs.
I'd recommend higher than 10volts for such a high impedance headphone.

As i stated for the T1, the impedance of the dynamic driver got a hugh swing on certain frequencies.
For the T1, it rises up to nearly 1300ohm between 50Hz and 110Hz.
As you can see on the paper from innerfidelity, the 880 600 rises up to 750ohm.
So these are the specs you should calculate with.

A nice quote from RAA:
"
The resistance affects the amount of current that the amplifier should give to the headphones. If the current is not enough, the sound quality will deteriorate, beginning with harsh in the sound and ending with a crackling. In most cases, at low current values, the amplifiers operate in comparable quality to class A, and as the current level rises, the quality decreases toward AB, B, and the clipping zone.

Imagine that you have a water tank, which gradually fills with water. The voltage from the amplifier this is the pressure with which the pump draws water from the reservoir. If the inflow of water in the tank is lower than the volume that the pump pumps out, then at the pump outlet we collect water and "bubbles". Similarly will be with the sound from the headphones, which are lacked the current from the amplifier."
[Quote off]

I don't agree with that. As a user you will set your listening level based mostly on the midrange. Once 1 or 2kHz is set to have a given output to deliver a given loudness into the headphone, everything else will be a function of that one setting. In this context the variation at 80Hz of about 100ohm compared to 1kHz should be irrelevant with a low impedance amplifier giving very high damping at all frequencies.

On the other hand, there are many arguments in favor of having a good deal of headroom power/gain for the headphones, some legit(room for replay gain, EQ, less than 2V DAC, etc) but the amount needed is arguable as it often depends on user's habits who would have decided on a different max output target in the first place. Some arguments are legit but highly dependent on the type of amp used(IMO not relevant on that particular amp). And some are just audiophile misconceptions about power actually going into a load. In any case, many people would not be satisfied with an amplifier that just barely hits the highest output they had set as their target(again for good or bad reasons). In that respect I can somehow understand your concern for some users, but the 700+ohm thingy doesn't matter IMO.

 

[Chris Kaoss]

Yes, i'd agree.
But the imp curve of the 880 isn't just that one hump at around 80Hz.
Maybe my bias with the hugh impedance hump of the T1 kicks in a bit. ^^
Sounds even better with an amp that maxed out at 19volts, for example.
Of course, that's my experience with.

 

[bigshot]

Sometimes more isn't better. Sometimes it's just more.

 

[magicscreen]

Thank you for the feedback, do you think the Atom is sufficient?

The Atom cannot drive a Sennheiser HD6XX properly and that is only 300 ohm.

 

[gooeyrich]

The Atom cannot drive a Sennheiser HD6XX properly and that is only 300 ohm.

Based on what?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...e-amplifier-to-drive-600-ohm-headphones.6910/

 

[theaudiologist1]

hey guys. I have an ATH-R70x paired with an RHA DACAMP L1. My R70x's are 470 with a sensitivity of 98 or 99dB/mW (my box says 98 but everywhere else even AT's website says 99 :/), and my DACAMP L1, well, RHA has given NO DATA on the impedance and voltage. The only info they gave was that it outputs 300mW@16Ohms and 28mW@300Ohms. Idk how much it outputs at 470Ohms if somebody does the math please let me know.

Regardless, my DAC handles the quite well with PCM and gets very loud even with classical. With DSD it becomes somewhat quieter when listening to the quiet parts of a classical recording. I just want to know what should be the max loudness for a headphone to sound good with quiet and very dynamic music like in parts of a concerto? From my DAC specs, my DAC can push the R70x to a maximum of 112-113dB. I heard an orchestra at full force is 120dB so am I missing some details? Also is there a software for Mac that helps me determine my DAC's output power, impedance and voltage?

 

[gooeyrich]

JDS Labs Atom

Audibly indistinguishable from Magni Heresy or Geshelli Archel 2 Pro

Second lowest power output (though ample for most headphones), has the most features here, with an unconventional pre-amp output (see below), dual gain settings and two inputs (1x RCA, 1x 3.5mm TRS), at the joint-lowest price, in a custom, neat, plastic chassis/case.

The pre-amp output on the Atom appears to be tapped either after the gain stage or from the actual headphone output, and results in significantly higher voltage outputs than either the Liquid Spark or any version of Magni (and likely higher noise - though still below audible levels). This higher voltage output from the pre-amp outputs may result in more limited volume control range and/or input level headroom issues with some consumer amplifiers or active speakers.

https://www.headphones.com/blogs/ne...-heresy-headphone-amplifier-review-comparison

I always read that voltage is what matters with high impedance headphones?

 

[gooeyrich]

Also dropping this here for additional info/reference:

https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-impedance-demystified/

 

[gooeyrich]