[newmanoc]

Big differences in the quality of a listening experience always start at the source in my experience. But that said, if you are happy with the cheaper amp, great - sell the new one, go back to the cheaper and buy music with the extra cash. You may simply be noticing that for your tastes and degree of involvement in this potentially insane hobby that you don't need to go further. That is fine. Consider yourself lucky and enjoy your music.

 

[Asr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrickhat2001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Whoops, looks like I was partially wrong on that. From some reason I was thinking the Gilmore Lite also had PreAmp capabilities. Still, the signal does go through the circuit boaord of the Gilmore Lite (only it is not amplified before it hits the loop out). So, I would recommend, for the sake of fairness, to still avoid using the loop out when comparing the two amps because the signal still has to run through two more jacks, a circuit board and wires before it actually reaches the second amp. This could effect the signal--with analog audio there is no such thing as a pure transport, afterall.

No offense, but please don't try to pass info off as factual on components you don't own. The Gilmore Lite's loop out functions when the amp is completely off, so I highly doubt the signal path traverses much of the PCB (if at all) before it meets the loop out jacks.

And if loop outs are as bad as you claim, why do so many other high-end amp vendors include them, let alone HeadAmp?

 

[Towert7]

It's quite possible that where these amps truely differ, is simply not being made availible by the source (large soundstage perhapse?).

I had the Glite for a while, with both the Elpac and the DPS, and I have to agree with almost everyone in that it's so flat and passive sounding. I couldn't tell much difference with this amp, but once I moved up to the GS-1 it was night and day (especially since I had gotten an external DAC).

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeggy If you really have to try that hard to hear a difference, let alone an improvement, then it's really not worth it as far as I'm concerned.

Agreed. These differences should come to you, not you having to go search for them.

 

[Gravitas]

So I may have to jump to a higher price bracket to hear an improvement?...ugh. I'll try finding a DAC in the near future and see if that helps before upgrading amps.

I must say that neither the Glite or Headfive are bad...I'm just curious what the potential is for the 650s. Though I'm limited to a set, wife-driven budget.

 

[smeggy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Towert7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agreed. These differences should come to you, not you having to go search for them.

That's the thing, In another amp thread people were saying you need to train your ears, listen more intently and search out subtle differences. That to me is anti-music as you once again spend too much time listening to things and equipment instead of music. If the music is obviously better with a new amp, great. Otherwise you're on that slippery slope to missing out on the primary function of the gear where you hear lots of sounds and completely miss the music.

I'm much happier listening to music without these subtleties than listening for subtleties and miss everything else. My gear may be cheap and cheerful (by design) but boy is it nice sounding and fun.

 

[NiceCans]

At the risk of being accused of gender-bias (as well as going against the grain of the Head-Fi creed),
be happy with the HD650 and either amp, and buy the wife something really special. The benefits will be bountiful I am certain.

just a suggestion

 

[smeggy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiceCans /img/forum/go_quote.gif At the risk of being accused of gender-bias (as well as going against the grain of the Head-Fi creed), be happy with the HD650 and either amp, and buy the wife something really special. The benefits will be bountiful I am certain. just a suggestion

X2

 

[Davesrose]

you know, these head-fiers have a point

If you like your HD650s with your current source and whatever amp....just sit back and enjoy them

My previous assertion was only to try to explain why the differences in amp may not be so great: I know the "best amp" got to be more of an issue when I started spending more then $1K in sources. The idea that it takes several days to train your ears to hear a difference in amp just means that there aren't apparent differences on the current setup. Whatever.....good news is that you don't need an uber expensive amp. Your wife would probably appreciate a substantial gift for V-day instead

 

[newmanoc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeggy /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's the thing, In another amp thread people were saying you need to train your ears, listen more intently and search out subtle differences. That to me is anti-music as you once again spend too much time listening to things and equipment instead of music. If the music is obviously better with a new amp, great. Otherwise you're on that slippery slope to missing out on the primary function of the gear where you hear lots of sounds and completely miss the music. I'm much happier listening to music without these subtleties than listening for subtleties and miss everything else. My gear may be cheap and cheerful (by design) but boy is it nice sounding and fun.

Amen. The only point of audio gear is to convey music. In any upgrade or A/B comparision I do, the only thing I "listen" for is whether or not the change makes me more emotionally involved in the music.

 

[Elephas]

Emotional response to music is one reason I spend a lot of time to compare gear. A one hour AB session is good enough to identify some differences, but weeks would be better in order to be certain about most differences.

The emotional response to music can take time to take effect, whether it is excitement, sheer joy, relaxation, feeling laid-back, etc. Other factors such as time of day, whether I'm hungry or tired, mood, and stress level can also affect the way the music is perceived. Reaching a point when a headphone and the physical world "disappears" leaving only music is an emotional experience that takes time to occur.

Some differences such as bass impact, treble extension, details, timbral accuracy and tonal balance can be identified quickly, with quick AB swaps. Other differences such as texture, soundstage, imaging, dynamics, PRaT and overall emotional response may require more time to identify. For example, one minute may be enough to identify how realistic a saxophone or drums sound, but it may not be enough to know how pleasant it sounds. Emotional response is especially tricky to identify; it can vary with the type of music I'm in the mood for and takes time to become familiar with. This requires a lot of time to become familiar with an amp and how it performs with different sources and headphones.

I agree with the points made above regarding a good source. A better source should allow amp differences to become more apparent. However, source+amp synergy can also play a part and trying multiple sources with two amps can be illuminating in other ways.

For example, suppose Amp A is relatively neutral and on the cool side. Amp B is warm, lush and relatively slow and sluggish. Paired with an accurate and neutral source, a fast and colder headphone such as the SA5000 might sound better with Amp B. Change to a non-OS DAC with a warm and full sound and Amp A might sound better with the SA5000.

 

[Mikesul]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Towert7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's quite possible that where these amps truely differ, is simply not being made availible by the source (large soundstage perhapse?). I had the Glite for a while, with both the Elpac and the DPS, and I have to agree with almost everyone in that it's so flat and passive sounding. I couldn't tell much difference with this amp, but once I moved up to the GS-1 it was night and day (especially since I had gotten an external DAC). Agreed. These differences should come to you, not you having to go search for them.

I noticed that in your set up you also have a Denon Reciever. What can you tell us about how the headphone output of this receiver compares to the dedicated headphone amps discussed here?

 

[Towert7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikesul /img/forum/go_quote.gif I noticed that in your set up you also have a Denon Reciever. What can you tell us about how the headphone output of this receiver compares to the dedicated headphone amps discussed here?

Oh jeez, that's a hard one because it's been so long since I've used the headphone plug on the receiver (years). If I get some spare time, I'll give it a shot though.

 

[Gravitas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiceCans /img/forum/go_quote.gif At the risk of being accused of gender-bias (as well as going against the grain of the Head-Fi creed), be happy with the HD650 and either amp, and buy the wife something really special. The benefits will be bountiful I am certain. just a suggestion

x3 (or x4 if the wife ever sees this!)

She certainly keeps tabs on purchases and enjoys her own "jewelry upgraditis".

Anyway, I am back to enjoying the music for now. Giving the Glite a week or two of just listening, without the added scrutiny of A/B comparisons. I've enjoyed it so far, but have noticed that my ears get fatigued a bit in comparison to the Headfive, which never fatigued me at all. I think it's likely to do with the crossfeed, as I generally use it with the headfive during long sessions.

 

[swmtnbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravitas /img/forum/go_quote.gif In the meantime, I'll try long listening sessions with the Glite for awhile until I'm completely accustomed to its sound. Then give the H5 a whirl and see what happens.

If you hear such little difference between them at this point, why spend a lot time TRYING to hear differences? You're better off just going with the less expensive amp and spending your time enjoying the listening experience instead of analyzing it to death.

 

[TheSloth]

In general, assuming the amplifiers have no glaring design flaws, such as an inability to handle the impedance of the headphone used, an unregulated power supply or whatever else could be wrong, the difference between two solid state amplifiers is going to be relatively small.

We use hyperbolic terminology to describe the differences we do hear simply to allow us to discuss them and show our excitement about them. Our descriptions are magnified by a huge factor from the difference we really perceive. In my module archive thread I use such terminology as well to describe the difference between electronics modules in a common amplifier which use the same overall circuit design with just a few relatively minor component changes.

If you think about it, why should the gilmore lite and headfive sound vastly different to one another? That's not meant as an insult to the OP, but more food for thought as to what to expect from different amplifier designs, particularly ones of a similar type (i.e. solid state). The thing with headphone amplifiers is that, relative to the speaker world, even the cheapest amplifiers are relatively good/accurate compared to the equivalent in the speaker world - in general they only have to drive relatively friendly impedance loads with relatively tiny output levels, and therefore even very simple 'everyman' designs can work very well.