[ab_ba]

This is a fascinating discussion, folks. 
 
I didn't know Senn has sold about 30,000 HD 800's. I didn't know Edifier paid just $1.5M for Stax. I didn't know moon-audio listed the HE1000's at $2500 briefly. Unbelievable.
 
Another question: What drives the cost of headphones down? In tech pricing, technology that's about 3 years old sells for about 50% less. Old headphones seem to hold their price, even as new headphones appear. (HE 500 has dropped a little since released, SR-009 has dropped a little, HD800 has not dropped at all, Shure's SE535's have not dropped at all, etc etc...) Does that mean the new headphones really aren't that much of an improvement over the old ones? Because if they were, the old ones would have to drop in price even as new ones go up in price, just to keep selling any at all of the earlier-generation technologies. 
 
The alternative, scary to think, is that we are in a bubble. That headphone prices are inflated relative to any realistic long-term market. Nobody wants to buy in a bubble, but they still do...

 

[knerian]

The market drives prices down. Look at HD800: it opened at 1500 and stayed there. Look at T1, it opened at 1500 And now is around 900.

Hifiman can and will price this very high because unlike stax or abyss, it's not his only product, Hifiman has a ridiculously broad lineup at many many price points. Adding a TOTL flagship targeted to the audiophiles and the growing Chinese indiscriminate luxury market won't sink his business, it will just add to his sales.

 

[Roderick]

Does that mean the new headphones really aren't that much of an improvement over the old ones? Because if they were, the old ones would have to drop in price even as new ones go up in price, just to keep selling any at all of the earlier-generation technologies.   

It is different with basic consumer electronics. First of all the technology with computers, cellphones etc does get better faster. To be honest there has not been any major improvements with headphones or speakers in decades. How could there be?  A speaker is after all just a piece that's only function is to move air. Good speakers have been around for ages but computers that were used to put a man on the moon are not powerfull enough to run angry birds game. But that is not the whole reason why markets for smartphones and headphones are so different. Old headphones keep their value because new ones are allmost always more expensive. Tech in general doesn't work like that...prices might even come down like they have if you take long enough timeframe. Pc's 15 years ago were lot more expensive then they are now and when first flatscreens came out not many people had afford to buy 50" tv. Sennheiser hd600/650 from that era are still worth the same they were back then.
 
With high end headphones we are talking about niche products more or less. Many people pay 500$ for a tv or computer because that is considered a proper price for such equipment. But the average people are not willing to pay 1000$ extra  for a slightly better picture quality or mildly increased cpu speed. Manufacturers have to stay within the pricerange that maximises the winnings by selling more units instead of selling fewer for increased price. If everyday electronics like got more expensive all the time people would learn to settle for less. Consume less and make less money for companies. People willing to pay 500$ for a headphones are a small minority. With niche products prices just keep climbing up because target audience is already hooked. I wouldn't pay double for my tv to have better shadows or something but even mildest improvements in sound quality have had me reaching for my wallet. I'm hooked and companies know that they can rip me off. THey know I don't even expect successor for hd800 to come out with same price as hd800.
 
If sennheiser released hd900 tomorrow it would have very little impact on the price of hd800 if sennheiser does it right. Hd800 would still be considered the best headphone you can buy for $1499.95. HD900 would need to be clearly better to justify the price difference and the price difference needs to be big enough that people don't skip hd800 completely because they can get hd900 for a little more. This is where they went wrong with hd700. It wasn't big enough upgrade from hd600/650 to justify the price difference and on the other hand clearly better hd800 wasn't that much more expensive either. Eventually hd700 got disounted. That is one way for headphone prices to come down. I think that Beyer T1 got discounted for similar reason. It was originally allmost as expensive as hd800 but more people are going for sennheiser. T1 needed to come down in price to sell. If T1 would have been more popular of these two hd800 would be the one on sale right now. That is my guess anyway.
 
 
Most obvious reason for discounted price is of course poor commercial success. New denon series got bad reviews and didn't sell that well either. Distributors are in a hurry to get rid of the headphones. Quickly those were -50% all over the place. Since the new denons sucked it increased the price for the old ones. D5000 and D7000 are still totl denons. This is one of those cases where discounted headphones still have demand and the prices reflect that. There are also some discounted headphones that go up in price for reasons I have no clue about. For example a lot of discontinued sony headphones have insane prices. Not just rare ones such as r10 or qualia but more common xb500/xb700/xb1000 are a lot more expensive then they were when still produced.
 
It is interesting to see how high headphone prices can go in the future. There is a market for $50 000 speakers but who would pay that kind of money for headphones? If you have money to buy such headphones you propably have enough money to built  yourself a listening room and get expensive speakers instead. There is of course a market for portable audio but would you really take a $10000 portable rig outside to be listened in a noisy enviroment? I doubt it... I think eventually headphones for home use will become obsolete. They are allready developing speakers for personal use. There is some kind of technology that can direct the soundwaves so that only you can hear it. Think of a spotlight of sound. Early steps of that technology is already in use in shopping malls where it can be used for personalized advertising. Speakers that they use are electrostatic. Of course those kind of speakers are not suitable for music listening but over time the technology will get there.

 

[gurus]

I would say probably $2200-2400 for the headphones. That will put it at roughly 100% premium over the HE-6.
 
And does not matter where the amp is priced at, it is probably still going to be a "dud" like most if not all of his amps. And that has got nothing to do with what it will sound like, just from a marketing and "sale through" perspective, if history is any judge. MO, of course.

 

[Yoga]

The market drives prices down. Look at HD800: it opened at 1500 and stayed there. Look at T1, it opened at 1500 And now is around 900.

Hifiman can and will price this very high because unlike stax or abyss, it's not his only product, Hifiman has a ridiculously broad lineup at many many price points. Adding a TOTL flagship targeted to the audiophiles and the growing Chinese indiscriminate luxury market won't sink his business, it will just add to his sales.

Bingo.

 

[preproman]

  I would say probably $2200-2400 for the headphones. That will put it at roughly 100% premium over the HE-6.
 

 
 
I hope less than that.  

 

[Tingc222]

They'll sell like hot cakes at 2k, so that'll be my guess.

 

[subtle]

I have a feeling people are in for a rude awakening.
 
Unfortunately I don't see the price being any lower than $3000-3500 and we are partly at fault.  This is what happens when you build up a freight train with so much hype that the brakes can not accommodate.  The fact that people have actually stomached and supported the ridiculous Abyss pricing strategy doesn't help either.  There is really no incentive now for manufacturers to NOT price their flagship headphones at absurd price points.  People have zero willpower and will buy it regardless.

 

[coinmaster]

I vote we all boycott the HE1000 after release until they lower the price

 

[Drrizzt]

Even better, i vote for them to help stopping the war in irak/syria by dropping the He-1000 in masses with a good amp. With this message wrote on boxes: "Stop beleiving your bul**** religion in order to kill people, beleive in us in order to love music".
 
That would be an unprecedentedd marketing move. Obama would himself buy a pair and actually totally lost himself into music, then he would appear dancing all the time, inspiring the whole world to dance and asking, "Why the hell are we all dancing now ?", then Fang would rise his hand and say: "BECAUSE OF MY UNBELEIVABLE HE-1000, for only 3300$, you too, you can change the world in a better way". (Even though Achhmed would say something like "Silence, i kill you!").

 

[meraias]

what drives the price is probably the amount of hype everyone is fueling on the forums...
please...

 

[ubs28]

  what drives the price is probably the amount of hype everyone is fueling on the forums...
please...

Then why is the Sennheiser HD700 currently priced close to the HD650? The HD650 has alot of hype while the HD700 has a bad reputation. 

 

[buson160man]

 How can anyone compare the sales of a headphone that costs 1500 usd to one that costs 4450 usd. The number sold is ludicrous considering the price of the headphone. Really how many people are there who can afford the totl stax. Some people probably most might be able to stretch for the hd 800 but stretching for the sr009 that is another thing. At the price of the stax 009 it is reserved for those blessed with the means to partake of them. I have( a really long time ago) owned stax earspeakers but their less exotic lamda and lamda pro units. The first was the passive interface unit the second the stax tube amp. But eventually I moved on from them going back to loudspeakers. Funny it seems that I have come full circle back to headphones again as my preferred listening mode.
   It would be interesting to explore the wonder of electrostatic headphones again given the advances they have made in electrostatic headphones over the last ten or more years since I owned mine.

 

[davidsh]

 How can anyone compare the sales of a headphone that costs 1500 usd to one that costs 4450 usd. The number sold is ludicrous considering the price of the headphone. Really how many people are there who can afford the totl stax. Some people probably most might be able to stretch for the hd 800 but stretching for the sr009 that is another thing. At the price of the stax 009 it is reserved for those blessed with the means to partake of them. I have( a really long time ago) owned stax earspeakers but their less exotic lamda and lamda pro units. The first was the passive interface unit the second the stax tube amp. But eventually I moved on from them going back to loudspeakers. Funny it seems that I have come full circle back to headphones again as my preferred listening mode.
   It would be interesting to explore the wonder of electrostatic headphones again given the advances they have made in electrostatic headphones over the last ten or more years since I owned mine.

Except there hasn't been unless you wanna pay sr-009 money

 

[Peti]

  Even better, i vote for them to help stopping the war in irak/syria by dropping the He-1000 in masses with a good amp. With this message wrote on boxes: "Stop beleiving your bul**** religion in order to kill people, beleive in us in order to love music".
 
That would be an unprecedentedd marketing move. Obama would himself buy a pair and actually totally lost himself into music, then he would appear dancing all the time, inspiring the whole world to dance and asking, "Why the hell are we all dancing now ?", then Fang would rise his hand and say: "BECAUSE OF MY UNBELEIVABLE HE-1000, for only 3300$, you too, you can change the world in a better way". (Even though Achhmed would say something like "Silence, i kill you!").

Well, this post has made me thinking and spurred my imagination so here it is: Why doesn't Mr. Fang send a pair to the neighbouring North-Korea for Kim Jong Un so he could enjoy Katey Perry thus experiencing the girl's enticing voice on a new level that he'd give up on threatening South-K and the US at once?
 
Also, a few pairs could be sent over to Iran so instead of feeding those centrifuges that power could feed those hungry cans. Tip to the chinese factory: come up with a turban-friendly version of HE1000!!
 
Ok, I stop here before achieved World Peace