[daniel521]

I was planning on buying the HE400 as a home headphone and the Signature Pro as a portable headphone, however, after reading some review I was actually worried that signature pro might be a better headphone than the he400 despite being closed because the SigPro is a 1300 dollar headphone while the HE400 is a 400 dollar headphone. If it is, it wouldn't make sense to buy the HE400 because if the Signature Pro is better, I would never touch the HE400 even if I were at home. I listen to rock and metal mostly which doesn't rely that much on soundstage, so I don't know if the soundstage of an open can would be such a big advantage. For rock and metal, which one is better overall? If I buy both, will I probably end up listening to the he400 at home or would I probably use the sig pro all the time? Would it make more sense to only buy the SigPro?

 

[daniel521]

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[jerg]

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Price is irrelevant here; HE400 will outperform Sig Pro on all fronts. You gotta consider that the Ultrasones are closed, traditional dynamic headphones with a fairly uneven voicing, and measurements aren't that agreeable (though close to as good as closed headphones can get, barring a few exceptions) either. Meanwhile HE400s are open planar headphones that hold their ground firmly against most non-electrostatic open flagship headphones in many regards.

 

[MalVeauX]

Quote:

I was planning on buying the HE400 as a home headphone and the Signature Pro as a portable headphone, however, after reading some review I was actually worried that signature pro might be a better headphone than the he400 despite being closed because the SigPro is a 1300 dollar headphone while the HE400 is a 400 dollar headphone. If it is, it wouldn't make sense to buy the HE400 because if the Signature Pro is better, I would never touch the HE400 even if I were at home. I listen to rock and metal mostly which doesn't rely that much on soundstage, so I don't know if the soundstage of an open can would be such a big advantage. For rock and metal, which one is better overall? If I buy both, will I probably end up listening to the he400 at home or would I probably use the sig pro all the time? Would it make more sense to only buy the SigPro?

 
Heya,
 
Unless you just want a closed headphone and want to drop over a grand, I would go HE-400 without even thinking about it. It's that good, especially for what you're listening to. Even if going closed, I wouldn't go Ultrasone. Definitely a "listen before you buy" considering it's A) ultrasone and B) it's flagship level cost.
 
Very best,

 

[obobskivich]

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I agree with what Mal said - but I'll expand it to any expensive headphone: you certainly need to try before you buy, or buy from somewhere that does an in-home trial (this can include Amazon if you're not a jerk about it). The reason for this is that it all comes down to preference after a certain performance point - and both of those headphones are clearly beyond that point (it's not like you're asking us "should I get Beats Solo or Denon D7000?" or something). I would say if you have the opportunity, try one or both, and make up your mind from there. I've actually heard individual accounts go both ways - I've heard some users report that the HE-400 best any Ultrasone they've ever laid hands on, and others who have dumped HE-500 or LCD-2 or similar "high end world breakers" for PRO2900s or Signature Pros, simply because their tastes align better with Ultrasone.

I will also throw out that the notion of a "do it all, single can" is something that many people dream about, and I think very few people actually attain.

Price is irrelevant here; HE400 will outperform Sig Pro on all fronts. You gotta consider that the Ultrasones are closed, traditional dynamic headphones with a fairly uneven voicing, and measurements aren't that agreeable (though close to as good as closed headphones can get, barring a few exceptions) either. Meanwhile HE400s are open planar headphones that hold their ground firmly against most non-electrostatic open flagship headphones in many regards.

From a measurement perspective they're actually pretty competitive, the Signature Pro has lower overall distortion but the HE-400 somewhat better extension. That doesn't tell you much about how they'll actually sound though because you aren't "seeing" what S-LOGIC will look like for your specific ear shape, nor are you "seeing" the planar radiation versus conventional dynamics. I agree that price is irrelevant though. I would also add that depending on user preference, electrostatics may be "unwanted" or "bad" - again it really depends on what the listener wants out of a pair of cans, not what the chart says.

I'm not trying to stir up bad blood here - it's just that we're talking about a level of play where it really is hitting diminishing returns, and aside from comparing isolation or efficiency figures (I think the Signature Pro wins both (say it with me now: "whoop-te-do")), it's really just going to come down to individual preference as to which one is better. Usage may play a role (in other words, if high isolation is required, the Signature Pro have a very unfair advantage), but if we're holding all that equal, it's really just which one a given person "likes" more. And that isn't as easily quantified.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

If it was based off cost... we'd see a lot more Grado flagship-type love.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

From a measurement perspective they're actually pretty competitive, the Signature Pro has lower overall distortion but the HE-400 somewhat better extension. That doesn't tell you much about how they'll actually sound though because you aren't "seeing" what S-LOGIC will look like for your specific ear shape, nor are you "seeing" the planar radiation versus conventional dynamics. I agree that price is irrelevant though. I would also add that depending on user preference, electrostatics may be "unwanted" or "bad" - again it really depends on what the listener wants out of a pair of cans, not what the chart says.
I'm not trying to stir up bad blood here - it's just that we're talking about a level of play where it really is hitting diminishing returns, and aside from comparing isolation or efficiency figures (I think the Signature Pro wins both (say it with me now: "whoop-te-do")), it's really just going to come down to individual preference as to which one is better. Usage may play a role (in other words, if high isolation is required, the Signature Pro have a very unfair advantage), but if we're holding all that equal, it's really just which one a given person "likes" more. And that isn't as easily quantified.

 
Not all measurements are made equal. It's already been the general consensus that the relatively high THD in HE400s cause nothing more than a slightly less-than-black background (which personally I can't even discern); and as far as I've seen, a black background is very very rarely an attribute that people even note, it is usually only mentioned when correlating with measurements, or if the reviewer is particularly sensitive to this and seeks it out for each review. Quite different from say extension, smoothness, voicing, decay / lack of ringing, and the like.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

If anyone can actually hear the background, they have dog's ears or way too much time on their hands to do as much as possible to hear it. This is why I hate measurements like that, where it's basically a non-issue in real world use.

 

[obobskivich]

Not all measurements are made equal. It's already been the general consensus that the relatively high THD in HE400s cause nothing more than a slightly less-than-black background (which personally I can't even discern); and as far as I've seen, a black background is very very rarely an attribute that people even note, it is usually only mentioned when correlating with measurements, or if the reviewer is particularly sensitive to this and seeks it out for each review. Quite different from say extension, smoothness, voicing, decay / lack of ringing, and the like.

The SigPro is clean enough on IR and SWR as well - my point was that measurements are not alpha and omega here, and in both cases you're looking pretty good. This is a preference debate, not a "technical" one. Additionally, what good does it do trying to discredit one measurement to prop up another?

 

[TMRaven]

Quote:

If anyone can actually hear the background, they have dog's ears or way too much time on their hands to do as much as possible to hear it. This is why I hate measurements like that, where it's basically a non-issue in real world use.

 
 
I'm not too sure about that.  It was the very first thing I noticed about the HE-400.  I wouldn't even call it just a lack of pure black background, but a slight smearing, or smoothing of the mids.  At the time I thought it was a planar magnetic trait.  It made the HD650s look very snappy in comparison.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

All I know is that I don't notice it. Dunno how the hell anyone has the time to nitpick about something so small.

 

[SoundFreaq]

Price is irrelevant here; HE400 will outperform Sig Pro on all fronts. You gotta consider that the Ultrasones are closed, traditional dynamic headphones with a fairly uneven voicing, and measurements aren't that agreeable (though close to as good as closed headphones can get, barring a few exceptions) either. Meanwhile HE400s are open planar headphones that hold their ground firmly against most non-electrostatic open flagship headphones in many regards.

 
Have you heard the Sig Pro?
 
Some people that have heard both say the Sig Pro easily outperforms the HE400/500 in every way. It's all preference and opinion, hence....
 
Quote:

I agree with what Mal said - but I'll expand it to any expensive headphone: you certainly need to try before you buy, or buy from somewhere that does an in-home trial (this can include Amazon if you're not a jerk about it). 

 
When you're talking about this much money, preference plays a large part. Each phone does certain things well, and somethings better than the others. No one is "better" than the other. It's about what you prefer and what's important for you. Do you need isolation? One of many questions that must be answered. 
 
Bottom line: Always try before you buy at this level. 
 
Edit: There's no doubt the HE400 will be better bang for the buck by most people's opinions.

 

[daniel521]

I dont think i have a place to try out the sig pro, but i can try out the hfi-780. If i enjoy the ultrasone hfi-780, do you think i will enjoy the signature pro? Do they have a simikar sound signature?

 

[obobskivich]

You would know if S-LOGIC works for your ear shape or not, that's fo sure.