[monsieurguzel]

iPodPJ, I see that you mention listening to HD800s with your WA5, what are your impressions of listening on that amp vs a balanced amp like a B22 or Phoenix? I'm wondering if I should try out balanced amps after getting my WA5 max and if it would make much of a difference after listening to such a high end amp. Since I love tubes, I'd probably try out the Balancing Act or Equillibrato from Eddie Current.

 

[IPodPJ]

I don't have a WA5. I listened to it at a meet. It is a great amp, as are many tube amps.

But I'm a solid state guy. I'm having a completely custom balanced Beta22 being built right now. I have not heard a more dynamic or transparent amp.

If you're a tube guy you should definitely check out some balanced tube amps. The HD800 balanced are a different animal.

 

[musicman59]

I totally agree with IpodPJ. I have my HD800 balanced and my amplifier is a Rudistor RP010B MkII. Between going balanced and the Complement cable these are different headphones. Everyting about the sound just got better. IMO one of the biggest difference was in the bass. It increase its impact and got deeper.

I love the organic sound of tubes and I did my tour over the tube world in my Hi-Fi speaker system with some big Sonic Frontiers monoblocks and Pre-amp but even that I love the sound it ws just to much hassel for me and went back to SS Class A.

 

[scootermafia]

I see you all are talking about me behind my back

Balanced HD800 are the shiznit, assuming your source material is good. I have a buddy that will never ever buy HD800s because his favorite music just sounds bad on them. If your musical tastes aren't hifi, it can be a problem.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Monsieurguzel: The Double Helix Cables Complement is the best HD800 cable I've owned or heard. You can get it in copper or silver. I have copper. After Peter (Double Helix Cables) loaned me his personal one, it only took me 2 minutes of listening before I placed my order and immediately put my APS V3 (with the best connectors) up for sale. If it's not in your budget they also have excellent cables (which I've listened to) for less that are also extremely good.

What were the differences in sound between the APS V3 and Complement? I'm thinking of getting the V3 to compare with my Clone. My setup is too smooth and warm sometimes, especially with the copper cable (I got a dark-sounding pair of HD800s).

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scootermafia /img/forum/go_quote.gif I see you all are talking about me behind my back Balanced HD800 are the shiznit, assuming your source material is good. I have a buddy that will never ever buy HD800s because his favorite music just sounds bad on them. If your musical tastes aren't hifi, it can be a problem.

I can't imagine what music he thinks sounds bad on them. But if it does I do not believe it to be an issue with the phones but rather the gear he has them connected to. As I was going down the upgrade path, certain music didn't sound as good and as natural as I felt it should be but once I ended up with the gear I have now there is no genre that doesn't sound natural, lively, and articulate through these phones (mod included, of course, as you know.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif What were the differences in sound between the APS V3 and Complement? I'm thinking of getting the V3 to compare with my Clone. My setup is too smooth and warm sometimes, especially with the copper cable (I got a dark-sounding pair of HD800s).

CONGESTOMETER
1=least congested, 10= most congested.
Complement = 1
APS V3 = 7

DYNAMOMETER
1=least dynamic, 10= most dynamic.
Complement = 9
APS V3 = 4

TRANSPAROMETER
1=least transparent, 10= most transparent.
Complement = 9
APS V3 = 4

 

[waterlogic]

HD 800 stock cabling is better than good.
I discovered the answer is a proper SS amp. Check the amps from Lake People.
A "christmas tree amp" can not drive HD 800 to their real potential - they need some proper voltage juice.
My opinion.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't imagine what music he thinks sounds bad on them. But if it does I do not believe it to be an issue with the phones but rather the gear he has them connected to. As I was going down the upgrade path, certain music didn't sound as good and as natural as I felt it should be but once I ended up with the gear I have now there is no genre that doesn't sound natural, lively, and articulate through these phones (mod included, of course, as you know.) CONGESTOMETER 1=least congested, 10= most congested. Complement = 1 APS V3 = 7 DYNAMOMETER 1=least dynamic, 10= most dynamic. Complement = 9 APS V3 = 4 TRANSPAROMETER 1=least transparent, 10= most transparent. Complement = 9 APS V3 = 4

Ok, so you prefer the Complement for openness, dynamics and transparency. May I ask what the sound signature differences are? Tonal balance would be another way to put it.

BTW, if you feel the difference between the Complement and APS is that large, then is the APS even a significant improvement over the stock cable IYO? I ask because I think the stock cable is pretty good (atleast with my HD800).

 

[IPodPJ]

I can't tell you what the differences in tonal balance or sound signature are other than to say in my system it's extremely neutral. In comparison the APS just has a very unpleasant sound to it.

I cannot compare the APS to the stock cable because the APS was balanced and the stock cable is single ended, so any comparisons I could give you wouldn't be very helpful. They do sound similar though, and it is probably because they both use silver plated copper which I don't like. It seems to restrict everything, as if you put a filter on it.

If you already have the Clone, buying the APS would just be a total waste of money. Perhaps invest in some power regeneration.

 

[monsieurguzel]

Thanks for all the great advice guys! You've all been super helpful and it definately seems that the DHC complement (baby) is the way to go in my case. I have heard too many good things about this cable that it is the one I will go with. Unfortunately, I have blown out of my budget in the past month, so I'll have to wait just a little bit longer with it. Instead of buying better tubes and a HD800 cable for my WA5+HD800 setup, I ended upgrading my source and power to a PS Audio Perfectwave DAC and a Power Plant Premier. I hope those will take my system to the next level, especially when the PWD Bridge gets released. Plus I figured that the WA5 will need a long time to burn in (blackgates), so should hold off on getting fancy tubes and cables just yet

 

[Shahrose]

So after 100 hours of burn-in, here's what I think of the Complement Clone wrt the stock cable.

The good:
-Slightly more bass and a bit deeper
-Added warmth in the midrange
-Bigger soundstage (especially width)
-Smoother/less fatiguing treble without sounding veiled or sacrificing extension
-Grainless, silky treble, compared to the relatively prominent lower treble of the stock cable
-Wetter/more liquid sounding...great for long listening sessions
-More natural sustain and decay...adds to realism
-Most importantly, it produces a sound that's more forgiving of bad recordings (both cables sound good with good recordings)

Now the ugly:
-Stock cable has better attack, most noticeably in the bass. It's further emphasized by the sharper treble of the stock. This doesn't mean that the Clone has bad attack. The stock is just strong in this area.
-Stock cable has a bit tighter bass than the copper, particularly at higher volumes, but it accomplishes this at the expense of some natural, pleasing decay that the copper Clone has

Overall, I like the Clone more than the stock cable, despite the couple issues I mentioned.

 

[Shahrose]

Just wanted to update the thread with some info on the original topic. I've replaced my DHC Copper Complement Clone with the OCC 7N silver cable from Double Helix Cables (Peter) and it's definitely the best cable I've heard with the HD800. It's accuracy and transparency are quite amazing, and this also means that it is unforgiving of bad equipment and recordings, yet it remains more pleasing to listen to than the stock cable. The OCC silver cable is expensive no doubt, but I think it's worth it.
 
There's too much to say so I'll just summarize with rankings below:
 
Bass quality: silver > stock > copper complement (the copper has a softer, thicker bass that I don't think is as incisive or tight as the stock, but the difference is subtle and overshadowed by its other strengths over stock)
 
Bass quantity: copper complement > silver > stock (all close)
 
Bass depth: copper complement = silver > stock
 
Treble quality: copper complement > silver > stock (copper has a very smooth, non-grainy treble...some treble detail is glossed over though)
 
Treble quantity: silver > stock > copper complement
 
Treble extension: silver = copper complement > stock
 
Soundstage: copper complement > stock > silver (silver has the best imaging/accuracy, but the smallest soundstage size)
 
Transparency: silver > stock > copper complement (copper is the most forgiving of bad recordings)
 
Detail/resolution: silver > copper complement > stock
 
Realism: silver > copper complement > stock (this is silver's greatest strength IMO...voices float around you, instrument timbres are very realistic)

 

[Shahrose]

Double post. See above.

 

[IC2010]

 
[size=9pt]Just a lego review: I'm using a RAL silver cable with my HD800 and really liked the sound, the main characteristic and difference with the stock cable (very good too) is bigger soundstage and more details in the music, excellent with the female voices and instruments in Jazz. Brad made an outstanding cable, well cared construction and the sound obtained make my HD800 even more pleasure to hear it. Sorry the lack of proper terminology to describe the sound but just want to let know the headfiers about the Revelation Audio in the HD800, I'll include a photo the next week.[/size]

 

[Currawong]

This is an unexptected bump. Unfortunately Revelation Audio has a very poor reputation around here.