[fewtch]

Well, it's just a confusion of terminology then. I think of the word "extension" in the usual engineering sense of the term, as in "20 Hz-20 KHz" and such, being into digital audio work. I don't mentally connect "flatter bass response" with "better bass extension" -- mea culpa, I guess.

 

[sacd lover]

You got respone at 20 hz with the 580/600, so what, at what level? Just because they go to 20 hz doesnt mean the level is as high and as detectable as with the 650. How loud the sound level is at 20 hz determines how well you hear the sound. LOOK at the headroom graphs you frequently point to when discussing the senns response. The -7.5 db point in the bass regoin is clearly lower on the 650.

 

[fewtch]

Apologies then... when it comes to a lot of audiophile terminology I just don't "get" the "language," it really doesn't click with me and never has.

When someone talks about bass extension, I think of the term in the sense of its usual meaning (how extended in the direction of the bottom of human hearing). I seem to be handicapped in these discussions, because at least 50% of the time I don't have a clue what the *(&%$*& someone is really referring to.

 

[sacd lover]

Ok; I get what you mean. I dont always understand you either. By the way, when I had those 580's I always wondered if I got a bad pair. I really wanted to like them, and I really tried to like them, but they just sounded weird. I always wondered how people could possibly like them. When I got to hear the 600/ equinox combo I couldnt believe it was essentially the same headphone as the 580; excellent sound that I enjoyed every bit as much as my trusty beyer dt880's. The 650's are even better to me because they are so natural. I commented on the smoother highs and improvements to the bass register, but the naturalness is what does it for me. Nothing seems overdone or emphasized, and the few areas that may not be perfect are done in such a way that you dont easily spot them; atleast without going out of your way to find them. I have already stopped analyzing them. I just put them on and listen. Thats a first for me.

 

[lextek]

Quote:

Originally posted by sacd lover I have already stopped analyzing them. I just put them on and listen. Thats a first for me.

Thank you!

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally posted by sacd lover Ok; I get what you mean. I dont always understand you either. By the way, when I had those 580's I always wondered if I got a bad pair. I really wanted to like them, and I really tried to like them, but they just sounded weird. I always wondered how people could possibly like them. When I got to hear the 600/ equinox combo I couldnt believe it was essentially the same headphone as the 580; excellent sound that I enjoyed every bit as much as my trusty beyer dt880's.

That's strange too, considering the HD-580 and HD-600 use the same drivers and sound nearly identical to most people (including myself -- I own both).

Did you ever try the HD-600 with the stock cable (even once)? If so, did it sound anything like the 580? If not, you probably either got a bad pair of HD580s or you weren't 'ready' for the 580/600 sound at that point (stranger things have happened).

My story is totally different. My only expectation of the HD-580 was that they would probably be boring, and pretty much worthless for anything but classical... otherwise, I was wide open to any/all sonic impressions and wasn't "trying" for anything at all, neither liking or disliking (it's just not my style -- I simply take things as they come, and as they are). It so happens I fell in love, however

.

Edit -- in fact, I find it hard to comprehend why anyone would actually try to like something they don't like. After getting the HD-280 Pro and seriously disliking the basic sound, they were on the way back to the dealer within 3 days. Life is too damn short.

 

[lextek]

The Senheisser HD650. The most over analyzed headphone.

 

[sacd lover]

No I never did try the stock cable with the 600. The 650 sure sounds good with the stock cable though. I ordered an equinox when I got the 650's and although its clearly a better cable I didnt see the point when I loved the 650 regardless which cord I had on it. The stock cord is very flexible and is very unobtrusive and its treble is less prominent. The equinox is stiff and the 9' length I received was to long for my setup. The equinox sound is richer and more open but I kept having my attetion drawn to the treble. I am not saying the equinox was etched or grainy or whatever in the treble,in fact it was very resolving, delicate and natural. But the treble just seemed to dominate my attention; which the stock cable does not do in my setup.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally posted by sacd lover No I never did try the stock cable with the 600.

Quote:

The 650 sure sounds good with the stock cable though.

Too pricey for me at this point... would much rather spend the money on music, and just enjoy. More power to ya, tho...

 

[sacd lover]

Me too. The equinox went back and that money can go towards the new (old) sacd releases coming from Eric Clapton and the Allman Brothers. Layla and Live At The Filmore East are two all time favorites of mine.

 

[Geek]

Bass rolls off less at the higher freqs with the HD650, whereas the HD600 rolls off faster below 80hz.

That's what my ears tell me.

That's what the headroom graphs also show.

Much of what has been heard by head-fi'ers can be backed up when analysing the HD650's frequency response charts vs the HD600's.

Cheers,
Geek

 

[GlowWorm]

That's interesting Geek. Do you mainly go by what your ears tell you, or by what the graph's tell you, or something in between?

 

[Geek]

What I'm hearing is a deeper fuller bass below that mid/upper bass HD600 characteristic punch.

The graphs simply concur with my ears.

If I went by the graphs I wouldn't make any personal statements about the headphone and would refer people to them. I think the graphs are a good guideline as to the sonic presentation of the 650s, but they in no way translate to the level of detail, soundstage, fastness, imaging, dynamic swing, distortion, tone, etc. of the headphone.

I'm not going by the graphs when I listen. I simply hear a much deeper bass response, and I hear bottom end where it seems to roll off with 600s. That's about it.

Cheers,
Geek

 

[Stoney]

Fewtch: When one listens and then uses terms to describe it, the words are always some degree of metaphor or poetry. This is why I shy away from overused terms like "fast" or "extension"... better for us to use terms that are more poetic, and to use variety of wordings to paint a picture.

Listening to sine waves is virtually useless in assessing sound quality. There are about 5 things I could go into to show how rediculous your statements were, but no need now that you understand.

There are clear differences among the 580, 590, 600, and 650, and this is independent of break in or not. Sure, they change a lot, but I suspect the differences are larger than the breakin process differences. I've listened to all of them, broken in. I can't imagine listening to the 580s or 590s at any length. The 600s have a clear character which is beguiling but not very vivid in the midrange, a bit bright and harsh in the treble, and a bit warm (as opposed to sounding neutral, flat, and "extended") in the bass.

The 650s are a clear improvement on the 600s, unless you have a harsh source.

If you think they "use the same drivers" then you seem to have little understanding of their product development process. The Grados are far more like each other than are the Sennheisers. Drivers may have similar general design aspects, just as cars may use the same "platform." But they can be as different as a 1.8 liter VW Passat versus an Audi RS6 4.2L twin turbo, often said to have been built on the same "platform." No comparison, actually.

If you haven't heard the HD650s, then listen and believe those who are reporting on their sound. They are right (aside from lextek who for some reason had a bum pair or some system problem). You can't guess or judge without hearing them yourself.

 

[zeplin]

well put stoney, i couldn't have said it better.
basically think and know before you speak...otherwise one can end up sounding a little ignorant and naive.
one thing that i can say that is for sure...
I CAN HARDLY WAIT TO HEAR THOSE 650's AT THE NEXT MEET IN OAKTOWN!!!