[JaZZ]

This is how I hear the HD 650:

 

[purk]

Will I hear HD-600 w/ Cardas vs. HD-650 stocked? This will be great for someone who is on budget. After all the price of the HD-600 w/ Cardas is lower than stock HD-650.

Purk

 

[ManiacSmile]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl Wow, I get to *agree* with fewtch for once.

LOL markl

Sorry for OT, now back to the "veiled" reality

 

[tom hankins]

purk, I'm paying less for the new HD650 than I paid for a new HD600/cardas. 385.00 plus shipping for the HD650, compared to 429.00 for the HD600/cardas.

 

[purk]

Tom,
So I think it is a fair fight given bugdet wise. We all know that the HD-600 won't stand a chance with the HD-650; however, will the HD-600 w/ Cardas is better than the HD-650 stock? That is what I want to know. I know that others might feel that this is unvalid, but for those who in budget, this issue is important.

I probably won't buy the HD650, since I'm stop (for now) w/ CD3K. I just did a modification to my XA20ES and things sound so good in my rig.

Purk

 

[slidescanner]

Actually, I did my comparison with the HD600 with stock and also with Cardas cables. Although they are different, I wouldn't say that the Cardas cable changes the fundamental character of these headphones. Cleaner, yes. A little more support in the low bass, OK. But for the comparison between the 600 and 650, I used the stock 650 cable. In other words, my review is based on the Cardas and stock cables for the 600, and the stock cable only for the 650.

And to the comment that the 650 is "bland", I would have to disagree. It's more involving than the 600, although perhaps the extra bass and mid-bass support gives it a fuller sound than the 600, and seems to take away a touch of the speed. But by no means is it a bland sound! It's a very exciting presentation to my ears! Of course nothing like the "take your head off" MD7506, mind you. But the difference in clarity, transparency and detail is worlds apart, too, with the 650 making the 7506 sound like a car stereo...

Hope this helps.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally posted by JaZZ This is how I hear the HD 650:

If the graph depicts how you hear it, do you mean it sounds boosted in the upper bass/lower midrange and rolled off in the treble? That's what I see on the graph.

Still, if that were the actual response graph, it would be awesome that the usual upper mid spikes are so smoothed out. If Sennheiser have come up with a design that cancels out a lot of the normal resonances, then that is a big step in the right direction. However, it is the overall results that really matter. It does look like the HD650 would be a terrific headphone for systems or amplification that is bass shy and bright in the top end. This phone might match up perfectly with some cheaper solid state gear.

Quote:

Originally posted by JaZZ It is After 24 hours of break in with extremely loud, bass heavy music, bass control fully turned up, there was still a bit too much bass around 100 or 120 Hz, but the next 6 hours changed the balance; now the mids seemed to somewhat outshine the bass

Likely that nothing has changed, but rather your ears and brain have adjusted to that balance.

 

[wallijonn]

Jazz,

how did you come up with that curve?

 

[slidescanner]

Jazz,

By the way, I agree overall with the curve you plotted, but I think your version is exaggerated. I think the low end of these goes lower, flatter, but there is a bump in the high bass area, maybe centering on 120Hz. But then the highs are also extended. There's no way these are down 2.5dB at 10kHz! And -5dB at 20kHz?

I'd say it's more like flat at 40Hz, +1.5 at 120, flat between 200Hz and 15kHz, then maybe down by 2dB at 25kHz.

But I haven't measured them... just my feeling based on what I heard.

 

[JaZZ]

Beagle...
Quote:

If the graph depicts how you hear it, do you mean it sounds boosted in the upper bass/lower midrange and rolled off in the treble? That's what I see on the graph.

...yes, but «rolled off» is a too hard word. It's just a slightly downward tilted curve. Which I have slightly modified in the meantime BTW.

Quote:

Still, if that were the actual response graph, it would be awesome that the usual upper mid spikes are so smoothed out. If Sennheiser have come up with a design that cancels out a lot of the normal resonances, then that is a big step in the right direction. However, it is the overall results that really matter. It does look like the HD650 would be a terrific headphone for systems or amplification that is bass shy and bright in the top end. This phone might match up perfectly with some cheaper solid state gear.

I'm apt to confirm this. At least it sounds relatively good hooked up to my sound card and to my DAP. But it's a pity not to fully benefit from its high resolution, thus high-quality gear is nevertheless recommended.

Quote:

Likely that nothing has changed, but rather your ears and brain have adjusted to that balance.

Thanks for the flowers and your trust in my reliability!

In fact it's very likely that some of my findings during the break-in process are based on my imagination, and I'm indeed convinced that the break in hasn't changed very much, a lot less than with the HD 600. But one of the things I'm quite sure about is that the bass is less pronounced now than it initially was. Which is a good thing.


wallijonn...

Quote:

How did you come up with that curve?

...it's a graphic implementation of my listening impression. Of course it just expresses the loudness relations between the different frequencies, not the quality of the corresponding sound.


slidescanner...
Quote:

...I agree overall with the curve you plotted, but I think your version is exaggerated. I think the low end of these goes lower, flatter, but there is a bump in the high bass area, maybe centering on 120Hz. But then the highs are also extended. There's no way these are down 2.5dB at 10kHz! And -5dB at 20kHz? I'd say it's more like flat at 40Hz, +1.5 at 120, flat between 200Hz and 15kHz, then maybe down by 2dB at 25kHz.

...you may very well be right. It's hard to transform heard sound into exact loudness relations indicated in dB. But I think -5 dB really isn't much with a headphone, the less so as it applies to 20 kHz. But have a look at my new, modified curve! Now it's only 4 dB -- a good compromise, isn't it?

And I think now that there is a slight emphasis in the center of the treble acting as a perceived corner frequency which causes the impression of a somewhat reduced bandwidth despite the fact that there is a lot of highest-frequency information available. (And something similar is happening with the bass.) I think it's this what's responsible for the striking treble smoothness and the slight lack of aggressiveness I have to criticize. To my ears the treble is too polite and euphonic with this headphone, in contrast to the HD 600. But it's very obvious that its resolution is clearly higher than with the latter.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally posted by myself ...the treble is too polite and euphonic with this headphone...

Don't get me wrong... the HD 650 is a fantastic headphone -- actually the best I own with the best treble I know --, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy it again, but it's not perfect. Well, I'm just about to discover a new HD-650 «magic» around its adorable little treble flaw...

 

[SuperGiraffe]

All the reviews of the HD-650 so far make it sound like the "new" Senn sound is very similar to the "old" -- I'm speaking of the HD-565, a very fine phone, indeed!