[Uosdwis R. Dewoh]

Funny thing:

When the parcel with my new HD650's arrived, I originally wanted to let them burn in for a couple of hours before trying them out for the first time. But then I thought "what the hell" and decided it'd be more interesting to see my initial reactions, and to hear how they changed over time. I used 580's for three years and 600's for about a year or so. I plug them directly into a Benchmark DAC1, and am constantly amazed by them both.

So I plugged in the 650's and put on a record I've must have listened to a thousand times. My first reaction was, no kidding: "Wait...they sound like ass!" Instantly and unreflected, that was it. Completely boomy and congested, way too much bass and highs are almost completely missing. OK, I thought, they really DO need some serious burning in. And they improved very quickly, say the first ten minutes or so when I was listening to other types of music to confirm my reactions.

So, 50+ hours later of low bass sweeps and various music material at serious levels, and I'm still not impressed. There's boatloads of bass, which can be nice, but I'd hesitate to call that an improvement in itself; it masks out too much detail for my taste, and it still feels like the top end is severely lacking. It's there, just not enough of it.

Sure, the 600's can be sometimes be a bit too sizzly and crisp but I guess I've gotten used to it over time and now miss it once it's attentuated (another "improvement"?). For hard rock type material the 650's sure have better slam than the 600's, and on some recordings the extended bass brings out more of the recording venue (for classical recordings, for example) or makes male voices seem more "chesty". But except for this, I find no other improvement beyond cosmetics and ergonomics. I do not believe 50 more hours of burning in will make a difference.

Am I the only one who reacted like this? I'm now seriously considering a cable upgrade for the 600's instead (Equinox, have stock cable atm) and to just stick with what I know and like. The money saved could potentially buy me another pair of cans, or a separate headphone amp. Or more music!

What do you think?

/ Uosdwis

 

[Shang-Ti Chen]

I would say 50 hours, 100 or even 200 is not enough... To know what they truly sound like it will have to take at least more than one year of several hours of listening a day...

I found that burn-in appeared to be actually unurgeable. The tight diaphragms need time to be loosen gradually. I've had my Grado for over half a year now and they are still not yet well broken in, in fact still far from it I would say. Recently my computer speaker, ProMedia 5.1 has just begun to really open up their sound and they are already 2 years old. Just be patient and enjoy the new HD650 with normal listening; they'll be burned in as time goes by.

The point is to prevent causing any possible damage to the phones. so that affects the final sound with deliberate burn-in.

My 2 cents.

Sincerely,

 

[Todd R]

Give them time, they do come around eventually.
Read this thread

 

[fewtch]

Hmmm, not good news, but this opinion doesn't appear to be all that widespread. Yet anyway.

Headphones that people regularly claim require more than 50 to 100 hours of burn-in go on my "must avoid" list. Will have to keep an eye on claims for the HD650 from now on.

 

[dd3mon]

Quote:

Originally posted by fewtch Hmmm, not good news, but this opinion doesn't appear to be all that widespread. Yet anyway. Headphones that people regularly claim require more than 50 to 100 hours of burn-in go on my "must avoid" list. Will have to keep an eye on claims for the HD650 from now on.

The HD-600 is one of these headphones that takes that long to burn-in too. Gonna give it away now?

-dd3mon

 

[Patrickhat2001]

I say congratulations.

With the money you save from returning the HD650 you could buy a great replacement cable (Equinox, Cardas, Mobious, or Silver Dragon) and still have money to put toward an amp upgrade or more music.

Most HD600 fans find the HD650s to be an improvement over the HD600 but that doesn't mean everyone will think so. These two phones have quite different tonal characteristics so it is totally possible that someone could prefer the sound of the HD600 over the HD650. Newer and more expensive doesn't always mean better--it depends on taste--I think many people forget that on this forum.

But I'd still be sure to keep the HD650s for as long as possible before returning them, just in case.

 

[mjg]

Hi,

I'm an owner of the benchmark DAC1 as well, i've done alot of comparisons with my hd600 in that vs my emmeline/555es combo. I must say although it powers the cans no question, the amp in the benchmark isn't up to snuff with high-end amps. The dac is awesome don't get me wrong (sorry if this is off topic). If you really wanted to give your hd650s a shot, after burn in, i recommend giving them a shot with a decent amp. It might be perhaps that the HD650's really shine on good amp rather then the dac1, which is kind of flat, limited sound stage, and just basiclly a bit boring compared to other offerings. If this is so with the hd600, i'd certainly suspect it with 650s.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally posted by dd3mon The HD-600 is one of these headphones that takes that long to burn-in too. Gonna give it away now? -dd3mon

Not to my ears, it wasn't. Sounded pretty good out of the box, improved greatly in merely the first 8 hours or so, and by that time they sounded so good that I stopped keeping track.

 

[Geek]

There's nothing wrong with liking either headphone, since the HD600 does have a slightly airier high end. However, the HD600's high end is slightly tinny, grainy, and colored compared to Geek's golden reference standard: unaccompanied Bach (and now Paganini!) on solo violin (me and others in real life in a great recital hall).

Violin is PERFECT with these headphones. Whilst it's just VERY GOOD on the HD600s, it's a bit too boosted in the treble and etchy compared to what you're gonna hear going to, say, Sarah Chang performing with the San Francisco Symphony.

Let's move on to other aspects of the HD650's sound. Let's talk about midrange! Unlike the HD600's magical, slightly recessed, uninspiring midrange, the HD650s have a powerful, emotional, full-bodied midrange. I think the HD650's is more neutral and much better on such voices as piano.

On to bass. While the HD600 has a really nice, deep, tight bass on good systems, it suffers from upper bass bloat which adds that extra "punch," on cheaper systems. The HD650 is the first headphone I have heard which has truly full bass response (extremely deep without rolling off even if it reaches 20hz, like the HD600 does). However, on cheaper setups (like mine) the bass suffers from colorations and bloat. It tends to overwhelm the system.

However, the bass is only bloated with mp3s and other music from my hard drive, whilst it sounds much cleaner out of my (admittedly not as good of a source as I could be using) NS500V.

What is your associated equipment? The HD650s are monsters. More so than the HD600. I do not recommend either headphone to budget users (HD580s will suffice).

People with budget equipment looking for a $3,000 sound out of the HD650s should look elsewhere (DT250-80). They sound like bass bloat monsters when underpowered. And they are definitely capable of realistic articulation, no doubt about it!

Cheers,
Geek

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally posted by Geek There's nothing wrong with liking either headphone, since the HD600 does have a slightly airier high end. However, the HD600's high end is slightly tinny, grainy, and colored compared to Geek's golden reference standard: unaccompanied Bach (and now Paganini!) on solo violin (me and others in real life in a great recital hall). Violin is PERFECT with these headphones. Whilst it's just VERY GOOD on the HD600s, it's a bit too boosted in the treble and etchy compared to what you're gonna hear going to, say, Sarah Chang performing with the San Francisco Symphony

If you are using solid state amplification, the HD600 is probably revealing any grain and distortion of the transistors, while the HD650 may be smoothing it over a bit. I certainly did not hear any "tinny, grainy, and colored" highs on the 600 through tubes, but when I recently compared the 600 and 650 through the Max, I did hear this when switching back to the 600 after the 650. Actually, I've never heard a "grainy" headphone, only the "grainy" amplification it was hooked into.

 

[gpalmer]

I would have to wonder if these will improve with time. I found there were a LOT of changes with my 650s as they burned in and they went through periods where I didn't think that much of the sound. I would see what you think after about 200 hours of burn in...

 

[wali]

IMO, you should stick with the gear, which you are "happy" with. I guess that is the bottom line, since you want to enjoy your music without worrying about the performance of your gear.

 

[Geek]

Beagle,

I find this interesting. To me the Max is dead smooth, as is its slightly less powerful cousin, the Maxed Out Home, but only through vinyl. I hear lots of graininess when powering ANY digital source through either of these two amps, but vinyl is dead smooth.

I haven't done any comparisions between the HD650 and the HD600 on truly high end equipment yet (I need a better source before I can come to any realistic conclusion). However, I do trust the opinions of my good friends at Headroom about the HD650's prowess when teamed up with a high end digital source and solid state amp. I simply have not heard such a combo yet.

Also, really bad material sounds just as horrible through the HD650 as the HD600. I find that the HD650 has more realistic treble: sennheiser is truly breaking the mold, going for what could be called the most realistic, organic sound achieved yet to my ears. While the HD600 is more sensitive to high end problems, the HD650 does the same in addition to revealing critical balance problems, especially with a system that is too bass-heavy or thick to begin with. Overboosting the treble, as most high end headphones do (to my ears compared to my reference), often improves "detail," "clarity," and "sweetness," but eliminates a critical component of high end listening: realism.

Cheers,
Geek

 

[Geek]

Again, I cannot emphasize enough the fact that the 600 and 650 are both acceptable as reference models, I simply prefer the balance and soundstaging of the 650 over the 600.

Cheers,
Geek

 

[tom hankins]

The lack of high end information was the one complaint I had with the HD650 as compared to the HD600. However as time went by and with the addition of the Zu cable, the highs on the HD650 are completely awesome. It took awhile before mine had the balanced sound they do now. I'd keep them as long as I could and you might find they were worth the wait. If not send them back and upgrade your cable on the HD600's. As much as I love the 600's, no cable upgrade could ever bring them to the level of the 650's for me. From what I've found through a little fooling around with gear here the HD650's are less picky about the amp and source than the HD600's.
Anyway, keep the ones you like and dump the others. Merry Christmas!