[Bleach]

I've never really heard anything bad about the Senn HD600s, and I'm seriously looking into getting them. But it seems like everyone who has them uses the Cardas cable or other aftermarket cable. I generally don't buy into the whole Monstercable craze, because as long as you have good interconnects, copper wire is copper wire and you arent going to lose any signal with a $6 radioshack cable or a $70 monstercable job. It seems like people use aftermarket cables with these phones more than any others though. Is there a flaw with the Sennheiser headphones that is drastically improved by using another cable?
Thanks for any help.

 

[bangraman]

I too think copper cable is copper cable. But the improvement of the HD600 with the Cardas cable is not in dispute. I tried it for all of 30 seconds and the difference was amazing, just from a cable replacement. I'm still not sure whether it's worth the money but there is a definite improvement. And we aren't talking about a difference that's detectable with a multi-thousand-dollar CD unit, we are talking about a difference thats detectable on a 200-dollar portable CD player with a low end battery powered DIY amp.
Which leads me to think: What crap do Sennheiser make the standard cables out of?

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Copper wire ain't exactly copper wire. Most stock copper wire is so extremely thin that much of the signal gets lost, due to their high resistance. So the problem is not the copper itself, but the fact that many cheap cable makers cut costs to themselves by using conductors that are unacceptably thin.

 

[soupy]

hd600 cable is kevlar reinforced OFC copper. As you will notice as you move up the upgrade ladder, every little thing is going to make a difference in the characteristics in sound from your headphones. The cable will make a difference, i mean, what else is directly attatched to your headphones and your source? The materials used in enclosing the copper or silver itself and the craftmanship of it all make a difference. Here's a pretty good justification straight from the cardas website:

http://www.cardas.com/cgi-bin/main_c...ing=Why+Cardas

 

[wallijonn]

a lot of time copper is copper, but how the copper is encased will have a lot to with how it sounds. the term is usually called "capacitance". Just as a capacitor directly in series with the sound will degrade the sound, so will high capacitance cables degrade the sound. The lower the capacitance and resistance, the better. the resistance and capacitance interacts with each other to produce a roll off of frequencies. The thickness of the wire will dictate how much current and/or voltage it can carry. a thicker wire should carry a greater amount of current which should make the headphone sound more 'unrestrained', therefore it may sound livelier. and of course there is also sound bleed-through. adjacent cables will have electromagnetic fields which will interact with the next wire's ectromagnetic fields. in the better cables the signal wires are surrounded by a twisted ground wire to minimise the magnetic fields, an therefore keep it purer.

 

[JahJahBinks]

double post.

 

[JahJahBinks]

Or you can just get AT W/A 1000 or Sony CD3000 and forget about changing cable. Since the sound from those comparing to Sen 580 + Cardas/Equniox should be in the same ball park if not better, and the price total is about the same.

 

[Geek]

The CD3000 isn't the HD600. It has a different signature sound, one that is a bit more aggressive. I don't think an HD600 user should sell his 600s and go for the 3000 because it's head-fi's "flavor of the month." I honestly don't think that a closed headphone can have a sonic signature exactly matching an open one. There will always be at least a minor flaw.

Why go through the hassle of spending $400 and selling your current headphone for less-than-ideal price when a simple $150 order will do? Baffling.

Cheers,
Geek

 

[AndreYew]

That the HD-600/580 cables are so thin is what makes me suspicious of aftermarket cables that effect sound differences. There may be significant resistance in the cable, but that resistance was probably designed as part of the HD-600's systemic response. Changing that cable out for something with different LRC values may change the sound of the HD-600 in a way not intended by its designers.

FWIW, I use the stock cable, and chose to even when I had to replace a broken cable.

--Andre

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally posted by Geek The CD3000 isn't the HD600. It has a different signature sound, one that is a bit more aggressive. I don't think an HD600 user should sell his 600s and go for the 3000 because it's head-fi's "flavor of the month." I honestly don't think that a closed headphone can have a sonic signature exactly matching an open one. There will always be at least a minor flaw. Why go through the hassle of spending $400 and selling your current headphone for less-than-ideal price when a simple $150 order will do? Baffling. Cheers, Geek

Until you've heard both, don't make judgements like these.


Andreyew, most people I've read agree that the Cardas cable sounds better. I also think even after a very brief listen, that it significantly improves the sound, although I did listen to the Cardas on a modified HD600 which I didn't really like the results of (the mod that is, the foam pad in front of the drivers had been removed). While it may have been designed a certain way, if it sounds better, why not make the change?

 

[AndreYew]

Bangraman,

Sounds better is a subjective evaluation. I like the the HD-600s as is, and don't want to mess with their out-of-the-box response.

--Andre

 

[Mr.PD]

I just got the Cardas cable for my 580's. I'll admit that the 580 is not exactley like the HD600 but they are similar. I can say that switching the cable makes a big difference. These phones used to sound a bit slow. I can't describe it but it was like they weren't really keeping up with the fast music I listen to. My Beyer DT250's kept up better. But, not now. The Cardas cable fixed that issue. It really is like I got a new set of headphones. Of course for $140 I could of got new headphones, but none this good.

Now maybe I can avoid buying the wood AT phones I have been wanting. For a while..............

Maybe not

 

[HendrixFreak]

The cable is one of the components in the system. It is a passive component (meaning non-powered) with capacitance, inductance and resistance properties. None of this would matter (well, except for the pure resistance) if all you were passing was DC .

But you are not, you are passing complex signals that WILL be affected by the passive properties of the channel. EVERY cable will change the signal to a degree; high quality cables to a far lesser degree. Incidentally higher guage (thus thinner) wire might have more resistance but pure resistance will only rob you of power, it will not change the sound. That's because the purely resistive properties act the same regardless of frequency. However thinner wire WILL have different (more) inductance and capacitance and these properties are all about frequency.

That said (my background is EE), I have not yet replaced my cable. Probably won't (on my new DT770Pros). But I respect (and believe) others who use high quality cable (AND interconnects).

On the issue of whether HP manufacturers actually take into account their cable when designing the phone I can't say. If they do then, yes its possible that replacing the cable with one of different characteristics could actually make them worse.

 

[HD-5000]

Welcome, bleach. The aftermarket you see for the HD-600 and HD-580 series of headphones have aftermarket cables for those who are truly after ultimate sound quality (or much better). I don't mean to scare you off, but these people who can hear difference can do so because of their ability to concentrate intensely on the sound quality of the music. Many people call them audiophiles.

Quote:

I generally don't buy into the whole Monstercable craze, because as long as you have good interconnects, copper wire is copper wire and you arent going to lose any signal with a $6 radioshack cable or a $70 monstercable job.

First off, if you train your ear to music, then a $6 cable will sound *tremendously* different from a good $70 cable. Also, there is no such thing as "Monstercable craze" in Head-fi, because lots of us think that they are overpriced meters of ****. First, train your ear, then come to us.

BTW $70 for a pair of cables would be cheap compared to what many people here are buying ($300-up to the $1000's)

 

[kenchi1983]

How about the stock wires used for the grados?...per say my grado sr80. they are thicker.....