[howzz1854]

   
 
I own the AD900 and I've heard the 598 multiple times.  There's nothing to write home about when talking about their 'soundstages.'  The soundstage phenomena on head-fi is blown out of proportion, but there are some big enough differences that draw me away from certain headphones when comparing them to others.
 
I'm going to question one aspect of one of your earlier posts just to question it:  Can you actually tell me what an 'accurate soundstage' is for headphones?  There's a difference between saying headphone a has spacier sound than headphone b, but how are you going to even begin to comment on soundstage accuracy when each can is placed on top or either ear disallowing each ear to hear directional queues coming from both channels at the same time, and even if you were to enable some crossfeed or had a binaural recording, how would you even begin to comment about the headphone's accuracy if you weren't there in person to listen to the recording?

 
i can tell you that my HD598 has a more accurate and detailed soundstage in a way that i can hear the sax bounces from one side of the recording room to the opposite side wall and to your other ear, like it was recorded in the room. you know when you're at a jazz club and the piano is in front of you, and the sax guy is to the right.. and the sound of the sax travels to the left and you get the sound bounced from the left side of the wall. that's what i meant by accurate. there's a difference between being an airy and wide can, vs an accurate soundstage that might not have a wide and airy feel. people often confuse airiness with wide soundstage, and accuracy. for example, the Audio Technica Air model line is well known for its open airy feel, with wide soundstage. but there's less depth in those soundstage, making it seem subjectively more artificial, vs, the HD598, which has less width as far as soundstage goes, but has a more layered details that brings you sense of depth. the farther the depth of perception, and wider the width, incorporated with more detailed instrument positioning makes it a good soundstage can. the AD900 for example, although has a wide soundstage and airy feel, does not produce the kind of accuracy in the jazz example i mentioned with the HD598, you just don't get the sense of refracted sound. 

 

[TMRaven]

I can agree with that. Even though roomy in its presentation, the ad700 is too diffused and doesn't have much definition.

 

[howzz1854]

yeah. i liked the AD700. and its airy sound. but you just don't get much detail and accuracy beyond that. the AD900 is much better imo with a very forward presentation. but in the same jazz example, all you get is a wide airy sound (some might call it artificial), without the sense of refraction. 

 

[owatito]

Hello friend, I had a "hd 598", now I have a "hd 650", I commented the following:
 
The 2 headphones will listen well amplified, 598 a lehmann cube linear, and the hd 650 with a mstage matrix (the amps to me sound a lot like me, the latter is the one I have), I can tell you, indeed, the soundstage is somewhat higher in the hd 598, if you want to video games and movies, definitely the "hd 598", are somewhat brighter than the hd 650, these latter have a smaller soundstage, but much more consistent and real, very intimate, and in some styles of music are quite "euphonic", that's why I recommend it 650 hd, but only if you want to give more importance to the music that video games, even so if you can afford it, the HD 650 are pretty good with anything you put.
 
In my case I live in Mexico, where everything is pretty inflated cost I had to sell the hd 598 to buy  hd 650 ($ 560 dollars sale price, regular price is $ 700), the only thing I miss about the hd 598, is the soundstage, and are a little more comfortable, in my opinion.
 
Greetings and sorry for my precarious english.

 

[howzz1854]

  Hello friend, I had a "hd 598", now I have a "hd 650", I commented the following:
 
The 2 headphones will listen well amplified, 598 a lehmann cube linear, and the hd 650 with a mstage matrix (the amps to me sound a lot like me, the latter is the one I have), I can tell you, indeed, the soundstage is somewhat higher in the hd 598, if you want to video games and movies, definitely the "hd 598", are somewhat brighter than the hd 650, these latter have a smaller soundstage, but much more consistent and real, very intimate, and in some styles of music are quite "euphonic", that's why I recommend it 650 hd, but only if you want to give more importance to the music that video games, even so if you can afford it, the HD 650 are pretty good with anything you put.
 
In my case I live in Mexico, where everything is pretty inflated cost I had to sell the hd 598 to buy  hd 650 ($ 560 dollars sale price, regular price is $ 700), the only thing I miss about the hd 598, is the soundstage, and are a little more comfortable, in my opinion.
 
Greetings and sorry for my precarious english.

 
 
thanks!.. really appreciate this. this is really helpful to me. 
 
i think despite this, i'll still give HD650 a try. just to see what all the fuzz is about.

 

[Currawong]

How you perceive soundstage from a pair of headphones is going to depend on a number of factors. Please remember that EVERYONES ears are physically different and, as a result, everyone perceives the frequency response of a pair of headphones differently. That, along with the other equipment used, will affect what one perceives. For example, HD600s and 650s work best with amps that can provide a good, consistent voltage swing. If not, the perceived soundstage will be less. Likewise planar headphones with amps that cannot provide enough current consistently will, with complex music, sound somewhat blurry. Then, of course, different music combined with different headphones will give different impressions. This is critically important yet very often overlooked. You have to be very specific about the music you're listening to with a particular pair of headphones. This becomes apparent with experience.
 
A long, but good read about headphone acoustics is what is probably one of the greatest, if not the greatest review ever written for Head-Fi:
 

STAX SR-007 (Omega II) ... A Review After 4 Years Of Ownership - darth nut's epic review.

 

[Arkyle]

I'd say it depends on what type of videogames you like. RPGs with good music for instance would benefit from the HD598, while shooters and more action based games would benefit from the impact of the ortho's. The HD650 are good, but IMO the HD600 sound better overall (cleaner and more accurate), but the HD598 are better in soundstage. Funny how the gap in SQ decreases with price, isn't it?

 

[mogulmaster]

I had the 650 and returned it for the 400.
 
Stage = about the same on both (400 is way deeper tho) - - but for me, the stage is more enjoyable on the 400. music seems to surround you and you really feel it. 650 too laid back. 
 
imaging = plugged the 400s into my just my ipod when i first got them, and knew they were special. I could clearly "see" the singer. Imaging 400 > 650. by far. 
 
Best part of 400 is the SEPARATION. mamacita! and the bass....
 
what i liked about 650 more than 400 - the mids, they sounded very pretty. but the 400 mids are not lacking, and very satisfying. 

 

[howzz1854]

  I had the 650 and returned it for the 400.
 
Stage = about the same on both (400 is way deeper tho) - - but for me, the stage is more enjoyable on the 400. music seems to surround you and you really feel it. 650 too laid back. 
 
imaging = plugged the 400s into my just my ipod when i first got them, and knew they were special. I could clearly "see" the singer. Imaging 400 > 650. by far. 
 
Best part of 400 is the SEPARATION. mamacita! and the bass....
 
what i liked about 650 more than 400 - the mids, they sounded very pretty. but the 400 mids are not lacking, and very satisfying. 

 
Thanks!.. this is really helpful. 
 
although i just ordered a HD650, and it's on its way. 
 
looks like i'll have to keep the HE400/500 on my radar for future purchase. 

 

[cheuh]

  I had the 650 and returned it for the 400.
 
Stage = about the same on both (400 is way deeper tho) - - but for me, the stage is more enjoyable on the 400. music seems to surround you and you really feel it. 650 too laid back. 
 
imaging = plugged the 400s into my just my ipod when i first got them, and knew they were special. I could clearly "see" the singer. Imaging 400 > 650. by far. 
 
Best part of 400 is the SEPARATION. mamacita! and the bass....
 
what i liked about 650 more than 400 - the mids, they sounded very pretty. but the 400 mids are not lacking, and very satisfying. 

 
+1... I heard the same exact thing that you described about the HE-400 vs HD650. They are very good complimentary cans IMO. I've haven't found any headphones that are under $400 that can image, separate, and do bass as well as the HE-400 IMO.
 
I agree that the mids are better on the HD650 and the treble is more laid back. HD650 owners will tell you need X amp to 'open' them up. I don't plan on getting an amp that costs more than the headphones themselves to find out...

 

[howzz1854]

just got the HD650. initial first few hours of impression is WOW.. the soundstage is enormous!!!!. i mean i know most people say the soundstage is smaller than 598, but maybe it's the shape of my ear, or my head,, but damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it's enormous!!!. like my wife said last night.  maybe extra accurate imaging is a major contribution, but damn!!. 
 
bass wise, the hitting force (upp bass) is about the same as 598, but 650 definitely has a fuller quantity, basically more sub bass extension. this definitely help in Trance and pop genre for me. 
 
i don't find it dark at all. maybe because i am running it through a relatively neutral, if any slightly brighter source (Essence STX). but upper mid and treble is just right. it allows me to turn it up without worrying about fatiguing. 
 
and it definitely present even more detail than my 598, which i already thought was great, detailed, and accurate performer. 
 
WOW

 

[Lumos]

...So Head-fi is fun, I have both HD650 and HD598 running with Magni, and I found that 650 has slightly bigger soundstage. However difference is very small. condition of pads affect more. If you have new 598 earpads, you will have almost equal size soundstage. Try a simple experiment, grab some foam and put them beneath of pad, this increaess depth and your ear will be more remote to driver.  You will see how soundstage will be widen and brightness reduses.


 
cheers

 

[Lumos]

Pics are qool why not to upload them

 

[howzz1854]

Pics are qool why not to upload them

Interesting mod. The soundstage definitely took me by surprise.

 

[wolfetan44]

 

Pics are qool why not to upload them

Do I put them all around the pad, or just one side?