[grokit]

I've owned three of them, and IMO the 555s are not enjoyable for music; after I heard the 600s I couldn't listen to the 555s anymore. I have not heard the 595s, but I understand that they are much better than the 555s and don't need or aren't as picky about amplification as the 600/650s, which are in another league entirely, and sound totally different from one another.

The 555/595s seem to be geared more for gaming and cinema than music, especially the 555s, that's about all they are good for once you've heard better IME.

 

[grokit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ok1907 /img/forum/go_quote.gif That makes sense. Actually, I will buy another amp but I will do that after buying the headphones. What desktop amp can make hd600's shine?

The uDac has decent synergy with the HD600s, and includes a good external DAC and line outs as well for an unbeatable price-to-performance proposition

 

[Tigerwoodkhorns]

To the original poster, are you new to audio or have you been doing this for a while?

I am new to headphones but have been in high end audio for many years. The reason that I ask is your comment about "sparkling highs" (or similar comment). When people first get into audio, they go for sharp highs and lots of bass. This gets your attention (kind of like compressed music, but that is another discussion - google "loudness wars" if interested).

The problem is that you have an immidiate reaction to "boom and sizzle" but quickly get fatigue. It is difficult to listen for long periods of time because it actually hurts. I have seen newbies hear a high end system that is balanced very well and think that Bose sounds better because the high end system has a rolled off top end. What they do not realize is that the rolled off system can be listened to for hours with no fatigue.

Case and point, I had a party at my house and everyone wanted to listen to loud music and dance. I had my system putting out over 100 to 110 db but everything was still clear as can be. I was using B&W Signature 800 speakers and Classe monoblocks at the time. The next day my wife did not think that it was that loud. But she did nto realize that at nightclubs they use horns which are very efficient, but tend to be harsh and panful when played loud. Without the pain it just did nto seem that "loud." Go figure.

To your question, I prefer a rolled off top end (think "tubelike") like I have in my main system, and bought the HD600's (just received them about 1 hour ago) and uDAC for laptop use because they are supposed to be easier to drive and more fogiving of MP3's on my laptop (I use vinyl in my main system). I tried HD580's and really liked them, but they are not readily available. The 580's have a nice sweet top end (read detailed but no fatigue) in the old pair that I have borrowed. I assume the 600's will be about the same over time because of the same drivers being used. I woudl probably love the 650's, but want to use the uDAC to drive them, so the 650's were out.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grokit /img/forum/go_quote.gif The 555/595s seem to be geared more for gaming and cinema than music

I thought you just said you hadn't heard the 595. In fact the 595 is great with music and I actually consider it better balanced than my 650.

Not picking on you, but a lot of statements are made here based purely on hearsay. That was one of them.

 

[lawrywild]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grokit /img/forum/go_quote.gif the 595s, but I understand that they are much better than the 555s

Only difference is the bit of foam behind the driver.. some say the 595s are burnt in better but that's just a theory..

 

[ok1907]

Tigerwoodkhorns thanks for the detailed opinion and I totally agree with you about all the things you said. I also prefer rolled off top end that's why I have IE8's but I want headphones that have more treble energy and more detailed treble than IE8's have while maintaining the sennheiser sound signature. As for the bass, I am unquestionable a basshead but I am not interested at its quantity but its extension. I am not new to audio but new to high end headphones like you.

Grokit thanks for the answers. They helped a lot.

 

[Al Hounos]

Ok, I've been listening to the HD555 (removed foam - 595) for a couple years now.

I recently got my amp and HD650s and heres my thoughts:

First, most people say the 555/595 doesn't benefit from amping. This is completely untrue. Most noticeable was the increased detail and bigger soundstage, but the bass improved quite a bit as well.

Then came the 650s... clicking through some of my favorite tracks, at first I wasn't blown away. But then I turned off all the lights and listened to Beethoven's 5th straight through... WOW... I've never heard such weight and impact in that music before, EXCEPT for when I've gone to the symphony. Beyond the massiveness that the 650s gave, detail was also incredible... I felt like I was listening from the conductors stand - when I closed my eyes, I could place the instruments in space all around me, it was almost a psychedelic experience.

I still have huge respect for the 555/595 though. The 650s cost 5x as much, but they don't sound 5x better. Maybe 2x better though.

 

[pp312]

What you say is true and the 650 is capable of reproducing the concert hall sound with amazing fidelity--with a good recording. And there, my friends, lies the rub. What I've found is that the 650, good as it is with the right recording, can sound dull, shut-in and frankly boring with lesser recordings. This is not true with the 595. While it may not be capable of the same verisimilitude as the 650 with good recordings, because of the extra treble energy it's rarely boring; even with dull recordings it manages to bring the details through better. This is where the more even balance of the 595 tells. Some say the 650 doesn't have a veil if properly amped, but it has a veil with everything I've tried it with, and even after years of ownership I still feel sometimes as if I'm listening through a blanket.

The 650 2x better? No, in my estimation their respective model numbers place them exactly.

 

[grokit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigerwoodkhorns /img/forum/go_quote.gif To the original poster, are you new to audio or have you been doing this for a while? I am new to headphones but have been in high end audio for many years. The reason that I ask is your comment about "sparkling highs" (or similar comment). When people first get into audio, they go for sharp highs and lots of bass. This gets your attention (kind of like compressed music, but that is another discussion - google "loudness wars" if interested). The problem is that you have an immidiate reaction to "boom and sizzle" but quickly get fatigue. It is difficult to listen for long periods of time because it actually hurts. I have seen newbies hear a high end system that is balanced very well and think that Bose sounds better because the high end system has a rolled off top end. What they do not realize is that the rolled off system can be listened to for hours with no fatigue. Case and point, I had a party at my house and everyone wanted to listen to loud music and dance. I had my system putting out over 100 to 110 db but everything was still clear as can be. I was using B&W Signature 800 speakers and Classe monoblocks at the time. The next day my wife did not think that it was that loud. But she did nto realize that at nightclubs they use horns which are very efficient, but tend to be harsh and panful when played loud. Without the pain it just did nto seem that "loud." Go figure. To your question, I prefer a rolled off top end (think "tubelike") like I have in my main system, and bought the HD600's (just received them about 1 hour ago) and uDAC for laptop use because they are supposed to be easier to drive and more fogiving of MP3's on my laptop (I use vinyl in my main system). I tried HD580's and really liked them, but they are not readily available. The 580's have a nice sweet top end (read detailed but no fatigue) in the old pair that I have borrowed. I assume the 600's will be about the same over time because of the same drivers being used. I woudl probably love the 650's, but want to use the uDAC to drive them, so the 650's were out.

I agree that the uDac is not for the 650, which while it is not as finicky as the 600 needs more power to be driven. The uDac is a capable DAC, but only a starter headphone amp.

LP Gear still carries new HD580s. Same as the 600s with some tweaks.

 

[grokit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I thought you just said you hadn't heard the 595. In fact the 595 is great with music and I actually consider it better balanced than my 650. Not picking on you, but a lot of statements are made here based purely on hearsay. That was one of them.

You're right, but I did state that up front, and was picking on the 555s for music, not the 595s. I can't believe that the drivers for the two are the same, as a couple of posters here are saying. If that is the case, then I wouldn't bother with either one of them, and I wonder why Sennheiser charges 2x as much for a bit of inner foam covers and outer foam rings.

For $200, anyone would be nuts not to choose an HD580 while they are still available.

And it does kind of feel like you are picking on me when you snip my quote and take it out of context

 

[Necrolic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ok1907 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks guys. Shizdan, that review will help for sure. Plonter, my budget is $300 maximum. I love heavy bass presentation but mid-treble are as important as the bass. I may get some other branded headphones but since I don't have the chance to audition them, I better buy a sennheiser whose sound is familiar to me. By the way, are these headphones revised from time to time? I mean they are old

Don't worry about the age. The Sony R10s are something like 20+ years old now and out of production, yet are hailed as the best dynamic headphones of all time and are highly sought after.

 

[ok1907]

Ok now I can imagine the differences and I think my decision will be either hd600's or hd650's. Just one more question to clarify: Is the removed foam the only difference between hd555 and hd595? I know that frequency response doesn't give the right impression every time but their freq responses are almost the same.

 

[Der Germane]

Hi,

I own all of these cans, so I can tell you a little about them driven by a Soundblaster X-Fi Titanium, Corda Cantate and Symphony (btw. both Cordas do not have such huge differences in presenting their sound, as it is always said).

All of these Sennheisers have a pretty narrow soundstage compared to the big Beyerdynamics or AKGs.

The HD555 and HD595 can easily be driven by a sound card. The HD600 and HD650 require an amp or a very good headphone jack.

This is how I'd characterize the sound:

HD555:
Quite undefined strong bass, somehow cut highs, but the mids are fairly well presented. Sound does only improve a very very little bit by amping it. Compared to the following headphones, these are very mouldy sounding ones.

HD595 (150 ohms version, old model):
Best buy for an unamped system. Clear and well balanced sound image with a nice deep bass and very tolerable highs and -like the HD555- well presented mids, when connected to the X-Fi. Using an amp makes them to me intolerably shrill and adds a taste of hollowness, which I do not like. Others might say they sound more 3-dimensional using an amp. Well, I don't like it.

HD600 (with black membranes, old model):
These ones are ideal for laid-back chamber music listening and also good for some kinds of rock music. Yes, they are laid-back sounding, but somehow involving and direct, too. To me, this is very special. The mids of these cans are their strength, the highs are nice (rhyme!

), not aggressive or harsh, but the bass is some kind of weak and tends sometimes simply to drown. They sound clearer and more airy than the HD595 and can profit by an amp with 0 ohms output impedance.

HD650 (with silver membranes):
Basically they sound like a darker HD650, with nearly the same presentation of highs (which are nice) and darker mids. The bass is compared to the HD600 very lush and to me in many situations preferable. But beware! To some people these headphones are so laid-back sounding that they say they hear a light curtain all over the sound.

The HD555 is the most comfortable of these headphones. The HD595 is nearly as comfortable, while the HD600 and HD650 are tighter and less comfortable, especially when new and your head has a size above average.

I really can not say a clear recommendation for any of these headphones. All of them -except the HD555- are soundwise pretty enjoyable cans to my mind.

And remember that the spread for standard factory models is also a matter here. So some people -I think- would partially disagree with my experiences because their model of the same Sennheiser just sounds a little bit different.

I hope I could help somehow.

 

[catscratch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ok1907 /img/forum/go_quote.gif That makes sense. Actually, I will buy another amp but I will do that after buying the headphones. What desktop amp can make hd600's shine?

I'd say start with a Gilmore Lite, or a Millett Hybrid, or a good DIY option like the M^3, which you can build yourself or commission a commercial DIYer to build for you. This will net you a really solid amp at well below what you'd pay retail for something of similar quality.

In the long term, you will probably want to go balanced. Balanced drive helps the HD600 quite a bit, makes it faster, clearer, tightens up the bass, and helps with instrument separation. But for that you'll need a balanced source, so you can probably kill two birds with one stone, and for your next upgrade after the amp, get a DAC with balanced output. There are lots of really solid choices around the $1k pricepoint - Neko Audio D100, Northstar M192 Mk2, Electrocompaniet ECD-1, and lots more besides. Then when it's time to get a massive balanced amp - and this will probably be a good ways off - you'll be all set. The HD600 becomes very revealing when properly powered, and every source upgrade will have fairly significant effects.

Check the amp forum, HD600 amping has been discussed quite a bit. I'm hardly an expert on dynamic amping, since I mostly stick to electrostatics.

I prefer the HD600 over the HD650 on a lot of systems. I think the HD650 will scale higher, and on a quality balanced rig it can really compete with some of the big dogs. But on most systems, the HD600 with its more neutral tonal balance will outdo it. The HD650 has more emphasized bass, and bass control is one area where the Senns are notoriously deficient when they don't have enough power. So, if you have a rig that doesn't have the juice to fully reign in the HD650's bass, you're probably going to hear some bloat. The HD600 has less bass emphasis and therefore it's not as selective. But, the HD650 does have noticeably higher resolution and definitely better imaging and separation. It's more colored in the mids, but when you can reign in its bass and wake it up with lots of power, it sounds very velvety and euphonic while maintaining good clarity and overall balance. But underdriven it sounds very thick, muted, and dull.

Age doesn't matter much in audio; Quad ESL-57 speakers were out in 1959 and they're still some of the very best speakers you can get your hands on. Vintage Stax Lambdas from the late 70s and SR-X Mk3s are almost as good as anything that has ever been released. The O2 is from 1998, the SR-Omega 1994, and the HE90 Orpheus from 1991, and these have yet to be surpassed by anything. The R10 is probably the best dynamic I've heard so far, though I'd never actually want to own one, and it's not exactly new either.

Headphones have plateaued, and a good pair will last for a LONG time if it's not abused. Plus, many headphones don't lose their value over time, so they can be more of an investment than just money down the drain.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grokit /img/forum/go_quote.gif You're right, but I did state that up front, and was picking on the 555s for music, not the 595s. I can't believe that the drivers for the two are the same, as a couple of posters here are saying. If that is the case, then I wouldn't bother with either one of them, and I wonder why Sennheiser charges 2x as much for a bit of inner foam covers and outer foam rings. For $200, anyone would be nuts not to choose an HD580 while they are still available.

Well, it could have something to do with the fact that some of us prefer the sound of the 595 to the 580. As for the differences between the 555 and 595, they DO use the same drivers, and Sennheiser actually charges more for less in that the 595 lacks the foam behind the driver. If you check the frequency responses of the two you'll see that the 555 has a little more energy in the 2 to 5khz range, where the ear is most sensitive

which is no doubt caused by the foam plug. The difference is in any case fairly subtle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grokit /img/forum/go_quote.gif And it does kind of feel like you are picking on me when you snip my quote and take it out of context

Now don't pout. You included the 595 in your statement when you hadn't in fact heard it, and as it's one of my favourite phones the statement that it wasn't very good with music was never going to pass. (Hell, I don't even accept it with regard to the 555).

But not to worry, I forgive you.