[matthiasfan]

I have not been in the hunt for headphones for a while, as I received some news about my hearing in my left ear that made me give up the hobby for a while (not related to playing music too loud 

).
 
That said, I have recently wanted to jump back in. My main problem at this point is that I can't really wear iem's as they tend to create issues for me. For this reason, I am looking at over the ear headphones.
 
What I own right now are KSC75s and Portapros, besides my iem's (Klipsch s4 and Dunu dn-1000).
 
I listen to a very eclectic mix of music and would also like to use these headphones for when I play games on my computer. Comfort for me is also of utmost importance.
 
I have heard the Q701s and really enjoyed the imaging, separation, and soundstage. However, I found the bass anemic (yes, I know this is subjective to some and that they are reference headphones).
 
In researching (and I have spent hours and hours researching), I have pretty much settled on the HD650 or HD6xx, if Massdrop ever does one again. I have heard that they are "warm" and that they have decent bass for open back headphones. The only thing that concerns me is I have read that their imaging and soundstage is smaller than the Q701. 
 
I have read MANY articles and posts, but I wanted to get some more direct answers for the HD650 vs. Q701 in terms of imaging and soundstage. From what I understand:
 
Q701: Larger soundstage and better imaging
HD 650: Smaller soundstage and can feel more "congested."
 
Sadly, I don't have a store in my area (that I know of) where I can do a side by side test. If anyone can affirm or deny what I understand to be true for these two headphones, and give nuance as to how big of a difference (preferably by analogy), that would be wonderful.
 
Thanks!

 

[jasonb]

The Q701 does have a bigger (wider) soundstage, I wouldn't say the imaging is better though. The Q701 with the bass mod definitely helps with the bass. Also have read that the Massdrop K7XX should have a bit more bass than a standard Q701. 
 
The HD650 does have the smaller (narrower) soundstage, but I feel that imaging is better. I don't find the HD650 to be congested. It is warmer, but there is still plenty of detail in music that actually has detail. I actually feel that the HD650 has all the same detail, but it is just presented more politely. The HD650 reminds me more of speakers than the Q701 does.

 

[matthiasfan]

Thank you for the reply, it was very helpful!

 

[LugBug1]

I completely agree with jasonb. Also, the HD650 has a deeper soundstage where as the Q701 has a flatter - more distant one. But yes the imaging is defo more speaker like on the HD650.
 
It's not often I recommend headphones that I haven't heard, however if its bass and soundstage on an open headphone you're after, maybe look at the Philips X2 as well? Some have problems with the treble though...    

 

[jasonb]

No problem. I have both, so if you have any other questions I'll try my best to help. 
 
I had an HD650 like 5-6 years ago, and ended up having to sell it and some other stuff when I needed money. I ended up buying a Q701 a year or two later and it had been my main headphone for the last few years. When Massdrop first announced the $199 HD6XX I tried to get in on it, but wasn't able to get one. They were all claimed before I was able to get my order in. Ever since then I had been thinking about getting one, and ended up finding a decent deal on a used HD650 so I pulled the trigger on it and ordered a Schiit Magni 2 Uber to use with it. I already had a JDS Labs ODAC laying around to use with it all and my Chromebook. Glad to have an HD650 again, but will also keep my Q701.

 

[jasonb]

Yup. The HD650 seems to have better depth. The Q701 can seem very wide and open, but definitely lacks soundstage depth. It's probably just the extra amount of width that makes it seem this way though. I think the HD650 is a better balance of width and depth. The HD650 seems more intimate, but never congested. I like the idea of having both, but having said that, I haven't used my Q701 in the week and 1 day I've had this HD650. I do plan on keeping the Q701, especially since I don't see it being worth trying to sell them anyway. They can be had new for not very much to begin with, so why bother trying to make maybe $100 tops on them. Both deserve a good DAC, an amp with some decent power, and high quality music files.  
 
Quote:

  I completely agree with jasonb. Also, the HD650 has a deeper soundstage where as the Q701 has a flatter - more distant one. But yes the imaging is defo more speaker like on the HD650.
 
It's not often I recommend headphones that I haven't heard, however if its bass and soundstage on an open headphone you're after, maybe look at the Philips X2 as well? Some have problems with the treble though...    

 

[jasonb]

Just listened to my Q701 for the first time since getting the HD650 last week. Went back to the HD650 after about 15 minutes. That was enough of that. 

 

[attmci]

  No problem. I have both, so if you have any other questions I'll try my best to help. 
 
I had an HD650 like 5-6 years ago, and ended up having to sell it and some other stuff when I needed money. I ended up buying a Q701 a year or two later and it had been my main headphone for the last few years. When Massdrop first announced the $199 HD6XX I tried to get in on it, but wasn't able to get one. They were all claimed before I was able to get my order in. Ever since then I had been thinking about getting one, and ended up finding a decent deal on a used HD650 so I pulled the trigger on it and ordered a Schiit Magni 2 Uber to use with it. I already had a JDS Labs ODAC laying around to use with it all and my Chromebook. Glad to have an HD650 again, but will also keep my Q701.

You need a better DAC/(OTL) Amp to drive the HD650 and probably also a silver dragon cable.
 
Q701 is easier to drive (DAC/SS Amp), and hope you have tried the mod.

 

[jasonb]

Was this meant for me?? If so, the Magni 2 Uber is plenty powerful, and the ODAC is a respectable DAC. When it comes to cables I'm not convinced.
 
The Q701 actually is the one that is harder to drive. It requires more voltage, and since it's lower impedance needs more current to get to the same level.  What mod are you referring to?
 
 
Quote:

 
You need a better DAC/Amp to drive the HD650 and probably also a silver dragon cable.
 
Q701 is easier to drive, and hope you have tried the mod.

 

[attmci]

No problem. Enjoy your new HD 650.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  I have heard the Q701s and really enjoyed the imaging, separation, and soundstage. However, I found the bass anemic (yes, I know this is subjective to some and that they are reference headphones).
 
In researching (and I have spent hours and hours researching), I have pretty much settled on the HD650 or HD6xx, if Massdrop ever does one again. I have heard that they are "warm" and that they have decent bass for open back headphones. The only thing that concerns me is I have read that their imaging and soundstage is smaller than the Q701. 
 
I have read MANY articles and posts, but I wanted to get some more direct answers for the HD650 vs. Q701 in terms of imaging and soundstage. From what I understand:
 
Q701: Larger soundstage and better imaging
HD 650: Smaller soundstage and can feel more "congested."

 

That pretty much sums up those two headphones in comparison to each other. 

 

One problem though: you will not get "more" bass without sacrificing soundstage depth. As much as one design feature that the AKG K/Q7-- series has over the HD650 is the angled earpads that mimic the toe in angle on speakers, past that the stronger the bass response the higher the likeluihood that you lose depth since you'll end up pushing the bass drum and bass guitar forward. In some cases, too far forward.

 

You'll have to give up soundstage depth at least, even if you spent a lot more money on the LCD-2 instead of the HD650, or instead of getting more bass quantity, go with bass quality. The LCD-2 can at least give you that too since it's flatter all the way down to 10hz (not that there's any sound there, but the thing is, it's effectively flat from 1000hz down to 10hz), and since the 1000hz to 10hz range is louder than above it (even in the Fazor version, just not as much), it will still have more bass quantity. And it still has a wider stage than the HD6x0.

 

There's also the HE400i, but while it's flat from 1000hz down to 10hz, above that it's like the HD600 (but kinda worse) - deeper crevasse between 1000hz and the 3500hz peak, then another one further up the range.
 
That said, the K/Q7-- series has a tendency to sound like they have less bass than they actually have on some amps (and not necessarily that you'd need to have a deliberate bass boost), so that's one option. Try the Burson Soloist or if that's too expensive, go with the Heed Can-A-Lot (or a used CanAmp). If it turns out the amplification wasn't enough of the issue, then at least whether you get an HD650 or LCD-2 or whatever, these amps will be good enough for those.

 

[LugBug1]

 
You need a better DAC/Amp to drive the HD650 and probably also a silver dragon cable.
 
Q701 is easier to drive, and hope you have tried the mod.

Can't agree with this I'm afraid. The Odac and Magni will give you a very clean sound. Both are uncoloured (maybe the magni is a touch bright) and arguably a good match for the warm HD650. Also a silver cable will not make an audible difference worth changing from stock. I've tried a few silver cables with my HD650's over the years and they looked nice  
 
And yes, as Jasonb pointed out, the Q/KXX require much more power than the Sennsitive Senns  

 

[attmci]

  Can't agree with this I'm afraid. The Odac and Magni will give you a very clean sound. Both are uncoloured (maybe the magni is a touch bright) and arguably a good match for the warm HD650. Also a silver cable will not make an audible difference worth changing from stock. I've tried a few silver cables with my HD650's over the years and they looked nice  
 
And yes, as Jasonb pointed out, the Q/KXX require much more power than the Sennsitive Senns  

It's OK to have different opinions. No argument here.

 

[attmci]

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/660408/reversible-akg-k701-bass-mod

 

[jasonb]

http://www.head-fi.org/t/660408/reversible-akg-k701-bass-mod

I did that years ago.