[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mastergill I don't think so. I found them too much quiet in fact, LOL. Look at this thread, i didn't count but i'm almost sure there's more answers from Senn. detractor than from fanboy. HD-650 get regularly and methodically trashed on this board and it's getting really funny in fact. You'll see next time the PX100 will sound better than HD-650! Much more sensitive are Grado lovers IMO. I've seen more than one Grado thread being closed. That says a lot.

Agreed.

(tonight I'm feeling lazy

)

 

[bret34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moongate Hello together, the last time I paid attention to the HD 650 description on the headroom site I read something like,..."Probably the worlds best headphone" and now I read "A world-class can with a refined, laid-back sound." and they reduced the value rating from 4.5 to 5.0 And come on laid back,...what is that? Like boring? I thought my HD 650´s are attacking, precise, basspoundering, crystal clear, lovely and standing on top of everything,...but boring? I´m pretty much concerned about this fact because I have a feeling coming up that makes me wanting new headphones - again. Please help,....noooo not again! Regards Moongate

If Headroom considers the 701 currently the "best", then do we call Stax cans? Godly??!?

 

[Andrea]

Who's said that Stax is better?

 

[drarthurwells]

Originally Posted by fewtch
I disagree... what about the whinings of Grado owners re: build quality, boastings about HF-1, etc (I assure you, the HF-1 noise was nauseating to someone who wasn't interested). Then add a certain person who claims SA5000 is the most neutral headphone in existence, a CD3k owner who used to be extremely noisy (much less these days) and etc.


Quote:

Originally Posted by hentai think of it , its true. Sounds loony eh, SA5000 most neutral ?

Art: Yes, the SA5000 is the most neutral headphone with the exception of the Qualia 010 and possibly the UE10 pro.

Neutral means it adds less of it own characteristics to the signal.

This makes it sound cold or analytical or lacking in musicality, to some, because they miss the coloration of their other headphones (coloration which adds warmth or masks problems in the source or signal path). Grados have a very pleasing sound because of their coloration, for instance.

Give me a neutral and revealing component any day, over any other. For any under $2000, the SA5000 is the headphone for me.

If I want to shift from a more natural and realistic sound to a richer, lush sound, as I sometimes want, then I change the tubes in my Bada PH12 from:

one Shugaung 6N8P up front (input tube) and two Electro Harmonix Gold 6NS7 tubes in back (output tubes) to

three Electro Harmonix Gold 6NS7 tubes in all positions

or for even more richness one Electro Harmonix Gold 6NS7 tubes in front (input tube) and two Russian 6H8C in back (output tubes).

Stax are very nice - I have owned two different Stax systems in the past. But all electrostatics lack bass.

 

[PATB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells But all electrostatics lack bass.

Art, I really respect your opinion, but all electrostatics? I find the Omega IIs to be bass monsters. I used to live with one using a maxed out KGSS. Could you please clarify?

 

[cheechoz]

I don't know what everybody perceives as neutral, but so far, IMO, the K701 is the closest thing I have ever heard, what I think is neutral!

 

[Jahn]

My STAX Lambda Pros have the deepest bass I've ever owned, deeper than the DT770. But it doesn't BOOM like the Beyer, or SLAM like the Grado. But it definitely THRUMs.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells Yes, the SA5000 is the most neutral headphone with the exception of the Qualia 010 and possibly the UE10 pro.

Have you heard the Qualia and the UE10 pro? I've heard the Qualia and it certainly is not neutral, all boomy with strange resonances... and I don't buy the 'bad fit' crap as they fit like a glove.

But then again, neither is the SA5000.

For your reference:
cold <--- neutral ---> warm

We all hear differently though... One mans poison is anothers pleasure. You need to deal with the fact that not everyone thinks that the SA5000 is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Borat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox Have you heard the Qualia and the UE10 pro? I've heard the Qualia and it certainly is not neutral. But then again, neither is the SA5000. For your reference: cold - neutral - warm

You have to pair them with the Bada PH12 to experience the most natural neutral accurate timbre ever! Thankfully you already have the Eastsound which shows you're not completely ignorant. But the Bada is surely better than your Bananarama or whatever you call it.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat Thankfully you already have the Eastsound which shows you're not completely ignorant.

LOL, well, it just shows that even if you can't agree on everything we all have something in common. You just have to know where to look for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat But the Bada is surely better than your Bananarama or whatever you call it.

I'd like to try the Bada sometime, but I don't think it will be my thing. I tend to like my tube amps to be almost solid state and with lots of balls. I'm actually not building the Bamaslama any more... but I am building a balanced tube amp.

More on that once I've had a chance to build and listen to it.

[Right now it looks like I will be building it on the afternoon/evening of the 23rd.]

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells ...the SA5000 is the most neutral headphone with the exception of the Qualia 010 and possibly the UE10 pro. ... This makes it sound cold or analytical or lacking in musicality...

...exactly like a live concert.

Note: All live concerts sound cold, analytical and unmusical.

Quote:

...all electrostatics lack bass.

LOL...

My two electrostats are my bassiest headphones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATB Art, I really respect your opinion...

Well, of course I respect his opinion -- as his opinion, not more, although it's usually worded as universal wisdom.
.

 

[sonance]

First of all, as much as I like Headroom as a company, their dedication to head-fi, their support for meets and great service, they are not the single determining factor of a headphone's worth. Sure for beginners it's interesting to see their headphone rating, but to me, their ratings are always taken with a pinch of salt. I look at them as *probably* being within +/- 1 star of what I would rate a headphone's value at.
Secondly their rating is a value rating rather than an absolute sound quality thing. They're looking at how the general masses that buy from them might perceive the value of a pair of headphones.
I was never happy with the ratings of the Grado headphones on their site, even though I prefer Senns, especially the RS-1 which I think is a great pair of headphones.
Since I have not heard the K701s I will reserve judgement as to whether it sounds better than the 650s.
Since the 650s with an aftermarket cable sound better (I'd say 1/2 star better seems about right) maybe the missing 1/2 star is to remind people that their stock 650s still have room for improvement

 

[Daryn Alexander]

They should totally add another star, just to screw with you people.

 

[nierika]

HOLY CRAP.

Away for a few days and missed this saga!

For gods sake people, for once please lay off of which is "best." Headphones are like scotch whisky - they are all unique and are to be appreciated. How much you appeaciate each is based on your brain, the shape of your skull, your musical tastes, and the frequency response of your eardrum. APPRECIATE THE DIFFERENCES!

 

[drarthurwells]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATB Art, I really respect your opinion, but all electrostatics? I find the Omega IIs to be bass monsters. I used to live with one using a maxed out KGSS. Could you please clarify?

I haven't heard the Omega IIs.

I do agree completly with headroom (headphone.com) when they say:

"The next type of ultra-high-end headphone are electrostatics. These were the top of the heap for a long time, but dynamic cans have come a long way and we feel they are generally superior these days. The best electrostatic system is the Stax Omega. This is a very fine headphone with lush texture and airy presentation but does tend to be a bit thin compared to the dynamic headphones. The other electrostatic worthy of loft note is the Sennheiser Orpheus system. These are no longer available, but they were very good and darn pretty too."

Now, I do find the SA5000 to be close to the electrostatic sound signature in transient reponse - the ability of the cone to follow the signal as quickly as possible is a huge plus for me in evaluating any transducer. I think this is related to high resolution, extrication of inner detail, and congested-sound-avoidance with loud amd complex material, and that this makes the SA5000 superior to the HD650 for me. Other headphones, less revealing than the SA5000, do offer a more forgiving sound with softer imaging with harsher recorded material.

As I said, I prefer to have signal-pure components where I can manipulate the sound with tube choices in my Bada PH12 hybrid amp, while always having the great characteristics of solid state sound which the Bada provides.

Sure, you can take a non-hybrid all-tube amp and give it a hard and lean sound to duplicate solid state sound, but, whereas this duplicates the downfall aspects of solid state (hard and lean), this won't duplicate all the good characteristics (lightening fast transients, deep and well-defined bass, dynamics, detail, sharp image resolution) of solid state. An all tube amp that sounds like a solid state amp has always been a failure in my experience, as has been a solid state amp set up to duplicate tube coloration (added tone body). My Bada PH12 combines the best of both and allows me to dial in the tone-body tube sound signature while retaining the good solid state signature.

I can dial in the timbre I want, from natural tone body and timbre to tones that are more rich, liquid, lush and sweet. Now, I can't do this completely and some, liking tube sound, may find the Bada slightly lacking in the euphonic coloration they seek. I find it more than enough for me and avoid some tube set-ups because of too much coloration

I know that all-tube amps can be used with tube changes to change the timbre from rich, soft, and lush to hard and detailed, but they don't have the Bada PH12 solid state signature (lightening fast transients, deep and well-defined bass, dynamics, detail, sharp image resolution) that always remains to large extent with tone-body changes from tube changes.

I like a neutral solid state sound with some added tone body to make it more natural and realistic, and sometimes even richer and more lush than is natural - but not too much.

My equipment right now is giving me all I could possibly want.

Will someone plaese tell me how I can get better sound? LOL