[lescanard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif my pimeta drives my hd650 JUST FINE. don't take too serious this myth of the hd's being 'hard to drive'. they are not. they benefit from an amp but you don't NEED one and almost any OK amp will do fine.

Sometimes it seems that some are so serious and passionate about "how" they sound and look past the fact that the music is the most important part. I know that they can always sound better. But if I can enjoy the listening experience and most importantly my music within the confines of m system, then I'll be happy. And it leaves me the opportunity to upgrade later if I want to.

 

[fjrabon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky /img/forum/go_quote.gif Regardless of what you read on Head-fi, virtually every phone sold can be enjoyed unamped. Listen for yourself and decide.

I still don't get this. You always say this, but then you only recommend headphones that don't need an amp. You always recommend the AD700 over something like the HD600 or K701. You say amping doesn't matter. It's like you refuse to believe that its even possible that amping makes a difference and you talk like other people are crazy when they say that other headphones are better with an amp. But mysteriously, somehow the headphones that everybody says need an amp sound worse to you than the ones that don't need an amp. But ti can't be because they need an amp, that's just preposterous.

 

[lucky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjrabon /img/forum/go_quote.gif I still don't get this. You always say this, but then you only recommend headphones that don't need an amp. You always recommend the AD700 over something like the HD600 or K701. You say amping doesn't matter. It's like you refuse to believe that its even possible that amping makes a difference and you talk like other people are crazy when they say that other headphones are better with an amp. But mysteriously, somehow the headphones that everybody says need an amp sound worse to you than the ones that don't need an amp. But ti can't be because they need an amp, that's just preposterous.

I only recommend headphones I've owned. Among full-sized phones, that's the HD555, AD700, K701, and RX700. I've recommended each of these at different times but tend to recommend the AD700 most because it's my favorite. I do recommend the K701, but not as often, because I have mixed feelings about its treble, while its comfort is also a strike against it. If you think I believe the K701 sounds "worse", you've misread my posts. I'm still considering buying it again, because sometimes I want those highs back.

 

[royewest]

+1 on the HD650s sounding great without an amp. Not what I usually do, but I've had them plugged directly into an iPod from time to time, when performing little tasks around the house when the family is asleep, for example, and enjoyed the sound just fine -- no temptation to switch to less-capable headphones for that use, thanks!

I've noticed two species of Head-Fi'ers: Those who can't get enough volume and those who keep looking for elegant ways to attenuate it -- I fall in the latter camp. Perhaps this is related to the different experiences in this thread on amping the 650s.

I also find portable players sound great with the 650s -- in particular I often use a gamma-1 / mini^3 combo from my Mac's usb out, and I have no trouble enjoying the increased authority and dynamic range from the mini^3's rechargeable 9v.

Of course, when you plug 650s into a desktop amp, they certainly don't disappoint!

 

[fjrabon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lescanard /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sometimes it seems that some are so serious and passionate about "how" they sound and look past the fact that the music is the most important part. I know that they can always sound better. But if I can enjoy the listening experience and most importantly my music within the confines of m system, then I'll be happy. And it leaves me the opportunity to upgrade later if I want to.

The thing isn't that HD650's don't sound fine if they're "underamped" its that there are a lot of better options for the money out there if you're not going to "properly" amp them. The HD650 is a good, not great headphone out of a portable amp. However, there are a lot of seriously great headphones out there for the $350 that a HD650 is going to cost you that don't need to be amped as much as the HD600 does.

Yes, the music is the most important part, but by that logic alone, you wouldn't need to upgrade from HD595's either.

You have to ask yourself why you want HD650's in the first place. If it's because of their esteem around here, you also have to realize that a lot of that esteem around here is because people are running some truly great amps into them.

My advice is, and likely always will be, forgo the portable amp route. They're just not worth it. A 9V battery just doesn't make enough of a difference, and it gets really expensive really fast. If you want something to move around with, go with some ATH's that are fine just driven by your macbook. As much as I hate to say it, HiFi headphones are still in the stage where if you really want to get to the apex you need to be "chained" to a desk. If you don't want to be chained to a desk, get some really nice headphones that don't need an amp. Don't get HD650's. They're great headphones, but there are simply a lot of better values if you know, from the beginning, that you're going to "underpower" them.

 

[pabbi1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjrabon /img/forum/go_quote.gif The thing isn't that HD650's don't sound fine if they're "underamped" its that there are a lot of better options for the money out there if you're not going to "properly" amp them. The HD650 is a good, not great headphone out of a portable amp. However, there are a lot of seriously great headphones out there for the $350 that a HD650 is going to cost you that don't need to be amped as much as the HD600 does.

Must have missed all those other 'great' phones for $350 - maybe you can run them down?

Having heard everything in that range (oh, and above), save the newest Shure line, please, amuse us. Or, is this another one of those 'From what I have read' assertions?

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jap /img/forum/go_quote.gif [size=small] Thank you very much for this! I wanted a small, powerful home amp solution, and I completely forgot about the Gilmore Light. And to think I once seriously considered this for my first amp. This should do the job powering the HD650 and the DT48E, and what a sweet, elegant solution it is! [/size]

It should mate well with the 48e, since the GL is pretty neutral sounding, if anything like the GS1..

 

[fjrabon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pabbi1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Must have missed all those other 'great' phones for $350 - maybe you can run them down? Having heard everything in that range (oh, and above), save the newest Shure line, please, amuse us. Or, is this another one of those 'From what I have read' assertions?

I don't have any experience with HD650's unamped, so I'll make that clear. But I do have experience with HD600's. So I am making one assumption here, that the difference between amped and unamped with those two headphones are similar. If the HD600 is, in fact, harder to amp than the HD650 and an amp doesn't make nearly the difference as it does with the HD600, I apologize. I've only heard the HD650 properly amped, and am transferring what I know about the HD600, which I work with frequently under a myriad of varying amping conditions, to the HD650. That being said, here is a list of headphones I have tried and liked better than the HD600 unamped or underamped:

SR225
AD700
AD900

I'm sure there are others out there, but these three I have experience with. I own the AD700 and have demoed the SR225 and AD900 pretty extensively, as they're two of the headphones I'm considering as my "next step" along with the HD600. Luckily I work in a studio and its not a problem at all for me to demo a lot of equipment for free, while working. The AD700 has its flaws, but when underamped, I still prefer its liveliness to the HD600's underamped veil. It's pretty close between those two, but I think I still ultimately prefer the AD700, even though its maybe more colored and more grainy than the HD600, even underamped. The other two, I don't even feel like its close. With a portable, or no amp, I feel that the SR225 and AD900 fully blow the HD600 away. The SR225 is obviously a totally different beast and mostly incomparable, but the point is that its so stellar, even with no amp. Finally, I can't think of a single way that the HD600 underamped is better than the AD900. The AD900 is more balanced, more lively, more musical, has a better soundstage, has better PRaT and is more detailed than an underamped HD600. The price difference isn't that big between the two headphones, but the AD900 holds its own with both the HD600 and HD650, even when the latter two are properly amped, IMHO, let alone when they're not.

And again, let me REPEAT, its not that I think the HD650, HD580 or HD600 are bad headphones, even unamped. I just don't think they're the amazing headphones that they are when properly powered. Part of this may be personal preference, as I don't like the "Sennheiser veil", and I've found that really doesn't disappear unless you're running some serious juice to the HD600's (or most sennheiser's, even the easy to drive ones). It's the only reason I have hesitated about buying the HD600's, as I generally like my headphones to be more versatile, with regards to amping, than I've found the HD600 to be.

Again, I know I'm talkign about the HD600 and the HD650, and as much as I hate to resort to this, can anybody claim that the HD650 is less amp dependent than the HD600? Maybe it is and I'm totally off base here, but everything I've heard, even from Sennheiser reps, indicates that if anything, the opposite is true.

 

[Jap]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif It should mate well with the 48e, since the GL is pretty neutral sounding, if anything like the GS1..

[size=small]Yep, they have a house sound that is basically similar. I rejected the Gilmore Lite earlier because I became seriously focused on having a relatively powerful portable amp. Well, I have that in the LaRocco Portable Reference II MkII. I got it initially because it was said by some users to be very good at driving virtually any phone. Well, in actuality, while powerful for a portable, it doesn't really drive some of the better phones to their ultimate best, even if it still manages to get good sound out of them (e.g., HD600).

So I was looking at two levels of home amps - a transportable one that is affordable and easily moved (relatively speaking) to an office or around the home and a high end unit that can take virtually any dynamic phone to is ultimate potential. The high end one will have to wait for a while, but somewhere along the way I lost sight of Justin and his impressive Gilmore Lite. I tend to favor amps that are neutral, transparent, and powerful for their class, and the smallest Gilmore certainly fits the bill.

[/size]

 

[Jap]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jap /img/forum/go_quote.gif [size=small]Yep, they have a house sound that is basically similar. I rejected the Gilmore Lite earlier because I became seriously focused on having a relatively powerful portable amp. Well, I have that in the LaRocco Portable Reference II MkII. I got it initially because it was said by some users to be very good at driving virtually any phone. Well, in actuality, while powerful for a portable, it doesn't really drive some of the better phones to their ultimate best, even if it still manages to get good sound out of them (e.g., HD600). So I was looking at two levels of home amps - a transportable one that is affordable and easily moved (relatively speaking) to an office or around the home and a high end unit that can take virtually any dynamic phone to is ultimate potential. The high end one will have to wait for a while, but somewhere along the way I lost sight of Justin and his impressive Gilmore Lite. I tend to favor amps that are neutral, transparent, and powerful for their class, and the smallest Gilmore certainly fits the bill. [/size]

[size=small]As I attempt to perform due diligence on the selection of a good budget amp for the HD650's and Beyer DT48E's, one that seems worthy of note is the Caliente/KICAS (Keep It Clean And Simple) pair from Purity Audio. It may very well outperform the Gilmore Lite.

Reviews can be found in the following thread by Skylab, with great comments from Sbulack, boozcool, and other Caliente/KICAS owners/reviewers:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...-kicas-329643/

and in this thread by tbonner1:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...lifier-336473/

[/size]

 

[TheMarchingMule]

With my old portable rig, an iPod/ALO Jumbo Cryo/RSA Hornet "M", the HD 650 sounded very dark, with one-note bass. It sounded nice, but it also wanted to make me go to sleep.

A few meets later, I got to hear it balanced and with high-end amps (the models escape me), and it just blew my mind. I believe that unless you already have a high-end setup ready to go, then the HD 600 would be a better investment in the meantime.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jap /img/forum/go_quote.gif [size=small]As I attempt to perform due diligence on the selection of a good budget amp for the HD650's and Beyer DT48E's, one that seems worthy of note is the Caliente/KICAS (Keep It Clean And Simple) pair from Purity Audio. It may very well outperform the Gilmore Lite. Reviews can be found in the following thread by Skylab, with great comments from Sbulack, [size=large]boozcool[/size], and other Caliente/KICAS owners/reviewers: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...-kicas-329643/ and in this thread by tbonner1: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...lifier-336473/ [/size]

My advice is to avoid the FOTM amps.

IMHO the vast majority of the KICAS fanboys are newbies with litle basis for comparison other than their first portable rigs.

IIRC [size=large]boozcool[/size] sold his Caliente soon after buying it and bought an M^3.

To their credit, Purity let me return the one I impulsively ordered....

Yeah, yeah, YMMV.......

USG

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif My advice is to avoid the FOTM amps. IMHO the vast majority of the KICAS fanboys are newbies with litle basis for comparison other than their first portable rigs. IIRC [size=large]boozcool[/size] sold his Caliente soon after buying it and bought an M^3. To their credit, Purity let me return the one I impulsively ordered.... Yeah, yeah, YMMV....... USG

So... you... didn't like the Caliente as much as your WA amp?

I've been thinking about trying one of the "highly touted" SS amps in that price range - "just to see" (e.g. Caliente, Solo SRG, C-2C, M^3, etc.).

Its interesting to see you did... and... decided that it wasn't for you - I don't think I've seen your comments in that regard (likely wanting to be considerate of PA's consideration of your impulse purchase - I'll bet). Though, I may have just missed them.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif So... you... didn't like the Caliente as much as your WA amp? I've been thinking about trying one of the "highly touted" SS amps in that price range - "just to see" (e.g. Caliente, Solo SRG, C-2C, M^3, etc.). Its interesting to see you did... and... decided that it wasn't for you - I don't think I've seen your comments in that regard (likely wanting to be considerate of PA's consideration of your impulse purchase - I'll bet). Though, I may have just missed them.

Hiya Roger, what's doing??

Yeah, I didn't post very much about it, nobody listens anyway.

Why are you interested in a cheap SS ? I don't think any of them are going to sound better than Portaphile V2 Maxxed on AC except the M^3 and I don't think the M^3 is a better 650/880 amp than the Woo3 you sold a few years ago.... Maybe you need to kick it up a notch to something like a GS-1.

Eric

 

[Billybob79]

I ran my 650's through a portable amp when i first got them. They sounded ok, have to say i was a little disappointed. I then bought a Solo SRG and the difference was incredible. The cans just came to life. Soundstage opened up massively, imaging was spot on. I cannot recommend these cans highly enough, its just that you need to spend some extra cash to get the best out of them.