Have anyone tried PS3 as source?

[Maniac]

It appears that only the 40GB version does not have SACD capability, 20, 60 and 80GB all seem to have it. Now my only wish is to get PS3 to rip songs and store lossless, that'd be wonderful.

But I guess I can only hope for that feature...

 

[guyverl]

I compared using the PS3 as a transport vs the Cambridge Audio 840c with the PS3 not doing any upsampling vs 840c upsampling. I felt the PS3 had a very bright sound to it while the 840c had a more full bodied warm sound.

I would however, be very interested in any type of measurements as to the digital output (using PS3 as transport) of the PS3. I really would like to use the PS3 as my only transport - it really is such good value for money

 

[Maniac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by guyverl /img/forum/go_quote.gif I compared using the PS3 as a transport vs the Cambridge Audio 840c with the PS3 not doing any upsampling vs 840c upsampling. I felt the PS3 had a very bright sound to it while the 840c had a more full bodied warm sound. I would however, be very interested in any type of measurements as to the digital output (using PS3 as transport) of the PS3. I really would like to use the PS3 as my only transport - it really is such good value for money

What DAC did you use? Due to the fact that PS3 uses Toslink output, it is naturally at a disadvantage if you use other sources with coax connector (not sure if you used coax from 840c to compare or not).

I'm thinking if you got some kind of digital signal conditioning equipments, you might be able to see some improvements here.

 

[guyverl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniac /img/forum/go_quote.gif What DAC did you use? Due to the fact that PS3 uses Toslink output, it is naturally at a disadvantage if you use other sources with coax connector (not sure if you used coax from 840c to compare or not). I'm thinking if you got some kind of digital signal conditioning equipments, you might be able to see some improvements here.

Was pretty much testing both as transports. And using the upsampling DAC in the 840c itself. This was feeding a rotel 1068 and then into some B&W 803s. I presume that when 840c reads from the cd it then just feeds that into the DAC so the comparison of them both being transports would be the same?

I'm not that sure that there's any difference between toslink vs coax but that's an argument for another time

I've also tried feeding the PS3 directly to a pair of Meridian DSP3100 (well, via an optical->coax converter (m-audio c02) and still feel the PS3s to be bright sounding. This disturbs me because I feel that all digital sources ought to sound the same!!

What type of digital signal conditioning equipments do you mean?

Regards,

Guy

 

[Maniac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by guyverl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Was pretty much testing both as transports. And using the upsampling DAC in the 840c itself. This was feeding a rotel 1068 and then into some B&W 803s. I presume that when 840c reads from the cd it then just feeds that into the DAC so the comparison of them both being transports would be the same? I'm not that sure that there's any difference between toslink vs coax but that's an argument for another time I've also tried feeding the PS3 directly to a pair of Meridian DSP3100 (well, via an optical->coax converter (m-audio c02) and still feel the PS3s to be bright sounding. This disturbs me because I feel that all digital sources ought to sound the same!! What type of digital signal conditioning equipments do you mean? Regards, Guy

Well you just proved to yourself that all digital sources are not equal, which is quite true. If they are all the same, I fear for all those high end CD transport makers, as dumb buyers are sure going to run out fast, no matter how many exist in the wild, it is definitely going to run out and start to run into reasonable buyers who actually want to see/hear some difference.

Digital sources are not created equal, and they do not sound equal, nor does digital interfaces. There's a lot of fun experimenting with them, especially the delight of finding one that works and works cheap. (like if you have equipments with AES/EBU interface, ditch the coax or Toslink that you currently use and get a cheap AES/EBU cable... it will most likely nuke whatever coax or toslink that you were using.)


As for digital signal conditioning, one classic example is Genesis Digital Lens, which actually buffers and clocks the signal using very clever techniques. To those who doubt its effectiveness, and I am still not able to pick up one fast enough either on Audiogon or at a local buy and sale forum. Even tho they appeared more than a few times, I often comes in late by a few hours and they are GONE~ and I've been wanting to get one for about 6 month now.

There are some other newer products that does digital signal conditioning, but please LISTEN to them before buying, as a lot of them CLAIM to work, but all they did was hurting the signal so bad that it doesn't matter if you connect it to different transports, they all sound the same because the signal is messed the same way everytime. (Ugh...)

 

[guyverl]

Well, i didn't mean to imply that *all* digital sources sounded the same, that was a freudian slip somewhat.

i think that good implementations ought not to be so hard nowadays! Using CDs as source material is different as you may have different methods to buffer etc to reduce jitter etc etc but say, if they were all ripped lossless onto a solid state/ hard drive....

Yeah, with regards to AES over SPDIF etc that's a valid point for sure as these are completely different formats over which to transfer the data. Technically as well optical vs coax suffers because of you inevitably have to convert from electric signal -> light etc

At any rate shouldn't measuring different equipment as transports only be pretty doable? i.e. take the digital signal out from the transport and see whether you have the same digital signal on the other side? Does anybody know what are the barriers to this?

 

[Maniac]

Well, that's the beauty (or not) of jitter, it only takes a very small amount of it to cause a big difference in sound. Plus the receiving end will cause a bit of its own jitter as well.

As well, everyone have their own idea and own solution to decreasing/preventing jitter, some works, some works great and some doesn't even work at all. Thus we have this big mess of different transports, DACs and digital signal conditioners, and they all sound different

 

[Maniac]

Forgot to mention that the toslink optical <> electrical interface's problem actually manifest in a rather similar way as jitter would. If you tap the TOSLink receiver's output data (With a scope of course, a cheap 20Mhz analog scope is usually all you need), you will see the square wave being a bit rounded in the corner. This can cause what we call ambiguous state, where you are not sure if the receiving chip will read it as a 1 or 0. The larger the "rounding" of the corner, the bigger the problem would be, since it spends more time in the ambiguous state. This uncertainty will then show up as jitters in the receiving chip's output.

 

[montana girl]

Well I finally got my PS1 and hooked it up yesterday to give it a listen. I have Von Gaylord amps, pre-amp, and interconnect, Transparent MusicWave+ speaker cables. I hooked it up with my RCA interconnects first, then tried it with the AV multi out from player to pre-amp. With the first connection, interconnects from PS to pre-amp, and AV multi out to TV, I could access my TV screen and move the joystick around to pick my songs. With the 2nd connection (AV multi out on PS to my pre-amp), I didn't have the TV screen to maneuver around, but I did have the joystick to hit the next song for playing. With the 1st configuration (interconnects from playstation to pre-amp) the sound was very detailed with good bass. Not heavy or booming bass, but good solid bass. The soundstaging was okay, didn't extend too far out or back from the speakers but my room is not set up for optimum stereo at this point, so that is probably part of the lack of good soundstaging. It didn't have a rich, full sound like I like, especially with vocals, but it also wasn't shrill, bright or thin like some other cheaper components usually are. I think that it was comparable, on the average, to most $100-300 cd players that I've listened to in my system. Nothing outstanding, but easy to listen to, very good for the price-$40. When I hooked up the AV multi out on PS to my pre-amp, the sound became much more dynamic, while still retaining crystal clear detail. The soundstaging was approx. the same. It still didn't have a rich and full sound in the midrange and with vocals, but normally you don't achieve that without spending much more money. I listened to the USB Benchmark dac a few weeks ago, and other than the convenience of the Benchmark and considering the price difference, would pick the Sony playstation. I have listened to some of my CD's hundreds of times and there was no loss of detail with any of them. To sum this player up, I think the SCPH 1001 Playstation's strong points are it's excellent detail retrieval and overall balance from the low's to highs. It was on the warmish side, very nonfatiguing, but still retained all the details. I will definitely be buying a better player in the future, but it makes an excellent starter player for someone or a good player to keep until upgraded.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by montana girl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well I finally got my PS1 and hooked it up yesterday to give it a listen. I have Von Gaylord amps, pre-amp, and interconnect, Transparent MusicWave+ speaker cables. I hooked it up with my RCA interconnects first, then tried it with the AV multi out from player to pre-amp. With the first connection, interconnects from PS to pre-amp, and AV multi out to TV, I could access my TV screen and move the joystick around to pick my songs. With the 2nd connection (AV multi out on PS to my pre-amp), I didn't have the TV screen to maneuver around, but I did have the joystick to hit the next song for playing. With the 1st configuration (interconnects from playstation to pre-amp) the sound was very detailed with good bass. Not heavy or booming bass, but good solid bass. The soundstaging was okay, didn't extend too far out or back from the speakers but my room is not set up for optimum stereo at this point, so that is probably part of the lack of good soundstaging. It didn't have a rich, full sound like I like, especially with vocals, but it also wasn't shrill, bright or thin like some other cheaper components usually are. I think that it was comparable, on the average, to most $100-300 cd players that I've listened to in my system. Nothing outstanding, but easy to listen to, very good for the price-$40. When I hooked up the AV multi out on PS to my pre-amp, the sound became much more dynamic, while still retaining crystal clear detail. The soundstaging was approx. the same. It still didn't have a rich and full sound in the midrange and with vocals, but normally you don't achieve that without spending much more money. I listened to the USB Benchmark dac a few weeks ago, and other than the convenience of the Benchmark and considering the price difference, would pick the Sony playstation. I have listened to some of my CD's hundreds of times and there was no loss of detail with any of them. To sum this player up, I think the SCPH 1001 Playstation's strong points are it's excellent detail retrieval and overall balance from the low's to highs. It was on the warmish side, very nonfatiguing, but still retained all the details. I will definitely be buying a better player in the future, but it makes an excellent starter player for someone or a good player to keep until upgraded.

So the PS1 is also on par with the DAC1

 

[montana girl]

I think the playstation comes very close to the Dac 1 in certain areas, with the Benchmark winning for dynamics, bass and soundstaging. The PS is every bit as detailed as the Dac 1 though, and is also a bit warmer. I thought the Benchmark was very neutral, but I decided I didn't want neutral as I don't find it musical nor enjoyable to listen to for hours. I actually could listen to the PS for hours without getting listening fatigue. Of course the Benchmark is much more convenient to use and is also much nicer to look at. Everybody has their priorities when it comes to what they want from their music, but for the very reasonable price of the PS, I think it's a huge bargain.