Don't tell it your wife/girlfriend!
Has anyone achieved their end-game setup ?
- Thread starter MrMan
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SolarCetacean
500+ Head-Fier
Going back to the question of my top 3 qualities I look for:
1. Comfort in listening. This obviously includes physical comfort, but also comfort of listening, like lacking any sonic quality that is annoying enough to disrupt my listening. This can be difficult to achieve, as I'm quite particular about physical fit, not helped by my highly protruding ears and narrow head. Comfort in listening is also tricky to get right in part due to the next thing I look for...
2. Treble presentation. I like bright headphones. I like the air frequencies, and I like elevated treble, but it must not be harsh or exhibit a glare (a single/few narrow spike(s) in the treble response - think of visual glare where one part of a surface is much brighter than the rest). I regularly use EQ, so I'm not as concerned about midrange or bass tuning, but treble is hard to EQ, so that's where the headphone must get it right out of the box. A headphone that's not harsh or peaky is not particularly difficult to make, but having a bright signature while also not being harsh is somewhat rare in my experience. I listen at relatively low levels compared to many other headphone enthusiasts, so the equal loudness contours work against the headphone here. I'd say the LCD-X is the darkest headphone that I didn't mind listening to. The Verite Closed didn't have anything offensive in the treble, but it was just too dark. I want a headphone that is bright, yet smooth.
3. Detail retrieval / resolution / tonal contrast. People have different standards and definitions for this term, but for me it means how easily can I detect different parts of music. I've generally found that if I hear a part on one headphone, I can find it on any other competently-tuned headphone. It's one of those "cannot unsee/unhear" phenomena. The difference is how much effort I need to identify that part. Good headphones lessen the mental effort needed to identify details.
With those 3 prioritized qualities, it's not too surprising that my current favorite headphone is the Hifiman Shangri-La Jr. The headband, earcup shape, and earpads fit my head very well in addition to the headphone being quite light overall. I appreciated its comfort the moment I put them on, and my opinion hasn't changed a year later. I do wish its earpads/earcups were a bit deeper, but that's just due to my ear protrusion. Most people probably won't have the same issue I face, and the thin fabric cover over the driver really helps. The SGL Jr has the most satisfying treble presentation I've heard. It really is bright yet smooth. And the nice part is that when driven by low-power amps, it's treble gets more subdued rather than harsher, so having a low-power amp isn't a huge detriment. There's no case of "you must listen on THIS amp to make it sound good". The rest of the tuning is also very nice - a bit breathy at times, but not shouty/strident which would interfere with listening comfort. And the detail presentation is some of the best I've heard. I think there are some tonal quirks that mess with timbre which can interfere with detail presentation, particularly when the midrange is EQed, but that just requires more careful EQ to counteract. Despite mentioning EQ here, I think the SGL Jr sounds very good without any EQ. I use EQ mainly for seasoning rather than trying to retune the whole headphone.
The SGL Jr is what made me change my goals from looking for upgrades to looking for novelties. Are potential upgrades floating out there, headphones that don't sacrifice any of the top 3 qualities while improving other aspects? Most likely. Susvara, SR-X9000, Shangri-La Sr, and a few others are on that list. But that list grows shorter with each headphone I demo, and I'm in no rush to upgrade. Now I'm interested in expanding my horizons to different, more esoteric, more specialized sounds. It's like having a reliable build in a videogame that I can count on, so I start creating off-meta builds that provide a new way to experience the game even if they aren't as efficient as the reliable build.
1. Comfort in listening. This obviously includes physical comfort, but also comfort of listening, like lacking any sonic quality that is annoying enough to disrupt my listening. This can be difficult to achieve, as I'm quite particular about physical fit, not helped by my highly protruding ears and narrow head. Comfort in listening is also tricky to get right in part due to the next thing I look for...
2. Treble presentation. I like bright headphones. I like the air frequencies, and I like elevated treble, but it must not be harsh or exhibit a glare (a single/few narrow spike(s) in the treble response - think of visual glare where one part of a surface is much brighter than the rest). I regularly use EQ, so I'm not as concerned about midrange or bass tuning, but treble is hard to EQ, so that's where the headphone must get it right out of the box. A headphone that's not harsh or peaky is not particularly difficult to make, but having a bright signature while also not being harsh is somewhat rare in my experience. I listen at relatively low levels compared to many other headphone enthusiasts, so the equal loudness contours work against the headphone here. I'd say the LCD-X is the darkest headphone that I didn't mind listening to. The Verite Closed didn't have anything offensive in the treble, but it was just too dark. I want a headphone that is bright, yet smooth.
3. Detail retrieval / resolution / tonal contrast. People have different standards and definitions for this term, but for me it means how easily can I detect different parts of music. I've generally found that if I hear a part on one headphone, I can find it on any other competently-tuned headphone. It's one of those "cannot unsee/unhear" phenomena. The difference is how much effort I need to identify that part. Good headphones lessen the mental effort needed to identify details.
With those 3 prioritized qualities, it's not too surprising that my current favorite headphone is the Hifiman Shangri-La Jr. The headband, earcup shape, and earpads fit my head very well in addition to the headphone being quite light overall. I appreciated its comfort the moment I put them on, and my opinion hasn't changed a year later. I do wish its earpads/earcups were a bit deeper, but that's just due to my ear protrusion. Most people probably won't have the same issue I face, and the thin fabric cover over the driver really helps. The SGL Jr has the most satisfying treble presentation I've heard. It really is bright yet smooth. And the nice part is that when driven by low-power amps, it's treble gets more subdued rather than harsher, so having a low-power amp isn't a huge detriment. There's no case of "you must listen on THIS amp to make it sound good". The rest of the tuning is also very nice - a bit breathy at times, but not shouty/strident which would interfere with listening comfort. And the detail presentation is some of the best I've heard. I think there are some tonal quirks that mess with timbre which can interfere with detail presentation, particularly when the midrange is EQed, but that just requires more careful EQ to counteract. Despite mentioning EQ here, I think the SGL Jr sounds very good without any EQ. I use EQ mainly for seasoning rather than trying to retune the whole headphone.
The SGL Jr is what made me change my goals from looking for upgrades to looking for novelties. Are potential upgrades floating out there, headphones that don't sacrifice any of the top 3 qualities while improving other aspects? Most likely. Susvara, SR-X9000, Shangri-La Sr, and a few others are on that list. But that list grows shorter with each headphone I demo, and I'm in no rush to upgrade. Now I'm interested in expanding my horizons to different, more esoteric, more specialized sounds. It's like having a reliable build in a videogame that I can count on, so I start creating off-meta builds that provide a new way to experience the game even if they aren't as efficient as the reliable build.
Endgame is a myth, theres always something that can offer an improvement.
Endgame is whatever your wallet or significant other will allow.
Endgame is whatever your wallet or significant other will allow.
This is such an interesting thread. What's really cool is you have two types of responses, those saying "I'm there except for this one last purchase" and those who say something like "There is no endgame" or "The fun of the hobby is the exploration." And I think they're really saying the same thing, which is to say that as long as you're engaged in the hobby and curious to hear new gear, you won't stop. Wanting just wants. That's what it does. It doesn't care about what you have. To quote a Zen teacher, "Wanting and having have nothing to do with one another. They're completely separate processes."
So yeah, I COULD stop right where I am. Orrrrrrr I could upgrade my Gungnir to an Yggdrasil one day, and find a really nice rectifier for my Pendant SE, and an upgraded cable for my HD8XX. Oh, and maybe try to own the HE1000-SE one day, and the new ZMF Caldera....
So yeah, I COULD stop right where I am. Orrrrrrr I could upgrade my Gungnir to an Yggdrasil one day, and find a really nice rectifier for my Pendant SE, and an upgraded cable for my HD8XX. Oh, and maybe try to own the HE1000-SE one day, and the new ZMF Caldera....
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Hydrate
New Head-Fier
For me endgame are headphones I can daily drive to get the things I want out of music/sound, the set ups that allow me to do that while also offering other things like build quality, aesthetics, weight, comfort, etc are what matters. For me end game is a closed back planar, open back planar, open back dynamic, and one to three IEM's. In terms of a DAC, something like the RME ADI, ampwise i'm waiting for schiit to make a better desk amp (want to support US based when I can).
Something like a DCA noire, 800s, LCD-5, and 2 IEM's is basically all want. I imagine as tech improves there's gonna be newer, lighter, "better" headphones, but diminishing returns hit long ago, so I don't care too much, i'm not chasing a dragon i'll never catch.
Something like a DCA noire, 800s, LCD-5, and 2 IEM's is basically all want. I imagine as tech improves there's gonna be newer, lighter, "better" headphones, but diminishing returns hit long ago, so I don't care too much, i'm not chasing a dragon i'll never catch.
xeizo
500+ Head-Fier
That's important, good quality headphones(with low distortion) EQ:d to the same target sounds very similar on the same music(as they should). Largest deviation between between quality headphones is FR.
Then it comes down to comfort, spl, power handling, efficiency, durability and form factor.
Flognuts
100+ Head-Fier
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End game? Well now, let me see. You know, I don't have any idea what that means?
I know what you think it means. To me, its just a made up word, an audiophile word, so that young fellas like you can post on audio forums.
What do you really wanna know? Did I ever reach my end game?
There's not a day goes by I don't feel regret for the money I spent, Not because I lurk these forums, or go to headphone meets. I look back on the way I was then, a young, stupid kid who spent all that money on headphones, amps, DACS and cables.
I wanna talk to him. I wanna try talk some sense to him -- tell him the way things are. But I can't. That kids long gone and this old man, with expensive equipment and a wife who won't let me spend anymore money on audio equipment is all that's left. I gotta live with that.
End Game?
It's just a bull word.
So you go on and keep searching for your end game and stop wasting my time.
Because to tell you the truth, it doesn't exist.
I know what you think it means. To me, its just a made up word, an audiophile word, so that young fellas like you can post on audio forums.
What do you really wanna know? Did I ever reach my end game?
There's not a day goes by I don't feel regret for the money I spent, Not because I lurk these forums, or go to headphone meets. I look back on the way I was then, a young, stupid kid who spent all that money on headphones, amps, DACS and cables.
I wanna talk to him. I wanna try talk some sense to him -- tell him the way things are. But I can't. That kids long gone and this old man, with expensive equipment and a wife who won't let me spend anymore money on audio equipment is all that's left. I gotta live with that.
End Game?
It's just a bull word.
So you go on and keep searching for your end game and stop wasting my time.
Because to tell you the truth, it doesn't exist.
I used to think an "end-game" setup meant owning the absolute "best" and most likely the most expensive gear one was willing to buy - and having no interest in ever buying anything else. As an older and wiser audio-geezer, I now see the flaws in that logic. Our tastes and preferences change. Our hearing changes. And dammit, people like things that are shiny and new, or at least a change. My favorite headphone (for now) cost roughly half of what my previous favorite cost. Go figure.
It's funny though, with my two-channel speaker and amp set-up (that I sadly no longer have due to a move to a different house), I could have stayed with that system for 20 years. "End-game" you might say. Loved everything about it and had no desire for anything "better". Headphones are just so darn easy to swap out and to try different flavors. Makes end-game that much more unlikely.
Also, asking this question on Head-Fi.... If one had their true end-game setup, they wouldn't be here reading these forums!
It's funny though, with my two-channel speaker and amp set-up (that I sadly no longer have due to a move to a different house), I could have stayed with that system for 20 years. "End-game" you might say. Loved everything about it and had no desire for anything "better". Headphones are just so darn easy to swap out and to try different flavors. Makes end-game that much more unlikely.
Also, asking this question on Head-Fi.... If one had their true end-game setup, they wouldn't be here reading these forums!
A endgame is achievable, to be 100% happy with what you have is a feat that Buddhism monks works toward. Also why monks gets rid of their belongings and own only the necessities to live.
Basically give away your gear to us fellow Head-Fi junkies.
Basically give away your gear to us fellow Head-Fi junkies.
xeizo
500+ Head-Fier
Agree, I can help out anyone heading for Nirvana by accepting some of your dirty expensive high end gear
Seems a little cynical but that could just be my subjective opinion. With that said I have achieved my end game. Been in the audio world since 2008 (this is my 2nd account) and the past couple of years bought nothing nor have I had any desire to buy anything. The main reason is I can completely change the sound profile at a flick of a switch. Comfort is the best I've had and I can't foresee it getting any better. Looks (not a big factor) are my favorite looking headphones. The current sound brings me so much joy.
I love this so much. Please teach me your ways! (But please don't say "buy an HD700"
)
goodvibes
Headphoneus Supremus
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I think I'm there but get the bug to try other highly rated things every so often. Using Moondrop S8 with comply tips and a cheap NiceHCK 8 core pure silver litz cable (just voices right as opposed to other cables and tips that do better elsewhere and by a wide margin) into an iBasso dx240 with an amp8mk2 I modded. Just sounds right, musical and informative.
At home I don't use phones much but have both an Naim Atom HE and a Questyle CMA 15. Tend to use the Atom for phones due to the awesome amp though the Questyle has the better DAC portion for my main system. Like Grado PS500e for phones but like I said, I don't use them much so haven't checked out everything new of late.
At home I don't use phones much but have both an Naim Atom HE and a Questyle CMA 15. Tend to use the Atom for phones due to the awesome amp though the Questyle has the better DAC portion for my main system. Like Grado PS500e for phones but like I said, I don't use them much so haven't checked out everything new of late.
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I love this so much. Please teach me your ways! (But please don't say "buy an HD700"
HD700 stock are not good. This is why no one owns them. You have to EQ the **** out of them to make them sounds good. I love the look of them and how light they are. With my amp/dac I set them up to sound how I want.
I have dekoni pads, audiophile ninja cable and both the tremble and bass raised up on dac. So there isn't much stock about my headphones.
But honestly I'd try and make a list of what you want in a headphone. Being honest with yourself that a 600 tier headphone might be better vs a 800 tier headphone of the same company. I own Sennheiser 650,700 and 800. I honestly like the 700's over 800 and probably the only person in this world who does.
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