[dan3952]

Those have the best imaging and layering I've ever heard from any headphone or speaker. An ultra stiff point source will do that for you. I can afford them, I just don't want to spend on something like that after recent house purchase

Utopia is a "technical" headphone: ZMF, Audeze and HiFiMan HE-1000, are more "musical" to some people. Like the Clear OG which was my first, it seems hyper detailed, and not smooth.

 

[yrstruly]

Utopia is a "technical" headphone: ZMF, Audeze and HiFiMan HE-1000, are more "musical" to some people. Like the Clear OG which was my first, it seems hyper detailed, and not smooth.

Got to disagree with this characterisation, personally. As technically astonishing as the Utopia is, it sounds plenty smooth on my set up and extremely musical e.g. vocals have a real emotional weight and realism and not really finding any of the unnatural timbre issues that can affect the Clear OG/Stellia (noting I'm only 2 days into owning the Utopia so it's early days...)

 

[dan3952]

Got to disagree with this characterisation, personally. As technically astonishing as the Utopia is, it sounds plenty smooth on my set up and extremely musical e.g. vocals have a real emotional weight and realism and not really finding any of the unnatural timbre issues that can affect the Clear OG/Stellia (noting I'm only 2 days into owning the Utopia so it's early days...)

Utopia's just not my cup of tea. That is all. It's too analytical for my liking. Timbre of Clear OG (the first good pair of headphones I've had), was worse. They had great resolution, but brought forward in a cold, metallic, and fatiguing way, to my ears. Neither of them sound warm and lush like Audeze LCD-3 (though my LCD-3 was behind all of the headphones mentioned in resolution, had problems of their own, and aren't worth $1950). Clear Mg which I had after five others, I had found had less apparent detail than Utopia or Clear OG, but a more natural timbre which I had preferred. Sound stage was small but with good imaging within it, for all three of them. I hadn't kept Clear Mg long after I had gotten my speakers going. I also have to sit over eight feet away for my three way speakers to sound right. Imaging will never be as good as it is with a point source. There are also room related bass problems and phase shift that you don't get with headphones. My speakers have aluminum drivers, and I keep thinking, "they're too lively and analytical". Not as smooth as paper cone drivers are. JBL L100 was a completely different experience for me.

 

[yrstruly]

Utopia's just not my cup of tea. That is all. It's too analytical for my liking. Timbre of Clear OG (the first good pair of headphones I've had), was worse. They had great resolution, but brought forward in a cold, metallic, and fatiguing way, to my ears. Neither of them sound warm and lush like Audeze LCD-3 (though my LCD-3 had problems of their own and aren't worth $1950). Clear Mg which I had after five others, I had found had less apparent detail than Utopia or Clear OG, but a more natural timbre which I had preferred. Sound stage was small but with good imaging within it, for all three of them. I hadn't kept Clear Mg long after I had gotten my speakers going. I also have to sit over eight feet away for my three way speakers to sound right. Imaging will never be as good as it is with a point source. My speakers have aluminum drivers, and I keep thinking, "they're too lively and analytical". Not as smooth as paper cone drivers are. JBL L100 was a completely different experience for me.

Yeah totally fair if they not your thing - certainly wouldn't describe the Utopias as warm or lush overall!

 

[dan3952]

Yeah totally fair if they not your thing - certainly wouldn't describe the Utopias as warm or lush overall!

LCD-3 is dark and is an aging product, but sounds wonderful with female vocals. They have body. They have warmth. I had HiFiMan Arya v2 before those, and had returned them because of their hollow, plasticky timbre. They had fixed this with Arya Stealth, I hope

 

[Tano]

RME ADI-2 DAC + Final Audio D8000 Pro limited edition is my endgame and I don't think Im replacing these in a while.

 

[PatrykR]

Currently, all wireless headphones give up some amount of sound quality compared to their wired counterparts. This is mainly due to the difficulties in fitting a good amp/DAC into the headphone itself and including the batteries. Maybe in the future, those issues can be solved, and some companies now are working their way around those issues by making the wireless functionality part of a compact external unit that you plug into the headphone (e.g. Hifiman's Bluemini).

That said, it's certainly possible to have an endgame setup be wireless. Endgame is a concept for the user; if the user is not concerned about the loss of quality from going wireless and prefer the utility and convenience of wireless, then they can be perfectly fine using a wireless headphone as their endgame. Why should they care if other people think there is better sound when they're already satisfied with their wireless headphones? In this hobby, shills are going to shill, and haters are going to hate. Endgame is more about knowing what you actually want, rather than going for what other people want you to want.

Thank you. What I'm trying to understand is, how much of a difference it is, compared to my current setup (the 650 and an iFi DAC). Is it remotely possible to get a similar quality with the best wireless setup, or is it a completely different league?

 

[baneand]

Thank you. What I'm trying to understand is, how much of a difference it is, compared to my current setup (the 650 and an iFi DAC). Is it remotely possible to get a similar quality with the best wireless setup, or is it a completely different league?

For me in Audio it is never big or huge difference how people like to say it on forums. Biggest difference is when I heard open back after closed back - again not that it will transform your music into something new, but it will sound more natural, wider and closer to speakers. For example I got Meze Liric after BD 1990 Pro, and in some areas I felt I downgraded, because they were closed back, it sounded like they were playing from a cup. After awhile you get used to that and they sound good, and you go back to open back and you say "oh there it is" So my guess is if you are going from 650 to any ANC headphones this might be something you will notice. How I see it closed back should be called compromise headphones and open back should be normal headphones

 

[bagwell359]

Got to disagree with this characterisation, personally. As technically astonishing as the Utopia is, it sounds plenty smooth on my set up and extremely musical e.g. vocals have a real emotional weight and realism and not really finding any of the unnatural timbre issues that can affect the Clear OG/Stellia (noting I'm only 2 days into owning the Utopia so it's early days...)

Utopia OG is much more to my liking with some EQ to tame the 5k rise, which I can't stand myself. Don't know the more recent one.

LCD-3 is dark and is an aging product, but sounds wonderful with female vocals. They have body. They have warmth. I had HiFiMan Arya v2 before those, and had returned them because of their hollow, plasticky timbre. They had fixed this with Arya Stealth, I hope

For the most part, but still needs EQ. OG LCD4, D8000 is more my speed than either of those.

 

[Skyediver]

Great comments in thread. I appreciate the idea that endgame means something completely different for everyone. For me I have a lot of gear I’m still interested in hearing/buying, but not getting too philosophical, I think I reached endgame for what really matters last year because on review, my music listening/purchasing, concert attending, and just overall gorging on music both old favs and new discoveries in both artists and genres exploded exponentially, which is the whole reason I got into the hobby in the first place.

All the gear is just delivery tools to musical enjoyment/listening Nirvana. And last year I achieved a happy place with that, and the new year is still providing music listening joy that I didn’t have necessarily when I was in “phone earbuds” hell.

 

[PatrykR]

For me in Audio it is never big or huge difference how people like to say it on forums. Biggest difference is when I heard open back after closed back - again not that it will transform your music into something new, but it will sound more natural, wider and closer to speakers. For example I got Meze Liric after BD 1990 Pro, and in some areas I felt I downgraded, because they were closed back, it sounded like they were playing from a cup. After awhile you get used to that and they sound good, and you go back to open back and you say "oh there it is" So my guess is if you are going from 650 to any ANC headphones this might be something you will notice. How I see it closed back should be called compromise headphones and open back should be normal headphones

OK, that gives me the a-ha moment. Throughout the day I use my jabra bluetooth anc headphones and they're brilliant for work (never spilled my coffee with the cable), but they never sounded anywhere near the 650s, somewhat cave-ish - now I understand why

On the other side - I've been doing research and was about to settle on the Sennheiser M4 (best wireless?) but then realized it'd be the same issue due to the anc. So my quest is now: can I get wireless open on-ear headphones without anc with quality close to the hd650?

 

[Unterstuffz]

The first time since i started this hobby i am fully content with my setup i have the perfect open back for my taste (Empyrean; that is warm in sound and has all the comfort i want ) a closed back that is open an detailed enough that i can really enjoy my music when my wife is watching tely right beside me (Verite Closed) and after exact 23 IEM i tried a IEM that has a good seal and with a little eq (Bass shelf 3 db 85 Hz) the perfect tonality for me(Punchy ,airy and engaging) on the go (Monndrop Variations).
And all was tied together with the decision to invest in a "good" (i have to be very carefull with my budget and i know its rather a Low fi Dac around here) Dac (Denafrips Ares 2) and man what a difference....
Im enjoying music like never before and i have no idea what to upgrade next exept for a new cable for my VC and then maybe a good tube amp... But the kid needs new clothes so maybe this will take a while ... but i am very happy right now.

 

[Tada]

For me in Audio it is never big or huge difference how people like to say it on forums. Biggest difference is when I heard open back after closed back - again not that it will transform your music into something new, but it will sound more natural, wider and closer to speakers. For example I got Meze Liric after BD 1990 Pro, and in some areas I felt I downgraded, because they were closed back, it sounded like they were playing from a cup. After awhile you get used to that and they sound good, and you go back to open back and you say "oh there it is" So my guess is if you are going from 650 to any ANC headphones this might be something you will notice. How I see it closed back should be called compromise headphones and open back should be normal headphones

Right, honestly the difference of going from a $100 pair of cans to TOTL is miniscule compared to what you gain from going to speakers. It's like going from 1 to 1.5, with even a bookshelf speaker a 10.

 

[chesebert]

Right, honestly the difference of going from a $100 pair of cans to TOTL is miniscule compared to what you gain from going to speakers. It's like going from 1 to 1.5, with even a bookshelf speaker a 10.

And when you add a couple of stacks of Rel to the bookshelf, it's like going from 10 to 100

 

[521282]

I wouldn't commit 100% to never changing anything, but I essentially have got to point where I can't see what would offer me a better value vs returns over what I have now.

(Picture recycled from another thread so apologies for the repetivness)