[builder bob]

Quote:

 
true that, probably what he'll want is a capsule mic, the most important fact above a certain level of quality is that it is calibrated and by that I mean calibrated in open space WITH the preamp it will be used with. this is the only way you will know that its telling you the truth, the calibration will take into account any peaks and dips in the response.
 
check out the setup at the innerfidelity link, you would be doing measurements in at least 2 formats, one of the driver in free air and one in the headphone, this way you can separate the effects of the headphone cup/enclosure. you will also be wanting to insert this mic in the ear of a dummy head with the headphones placed on the head, this way you get the measured response including the effects of the ear cavity (within limits) at the minimum it would be placed in the headphone
 
man, syriuzly, no offense, but maybe you need to spend a little more time in the English classes, I mean I know this is a forum, but the posts are sometimes hard going… 
 
having software capability to produce education level video and audio is a good start and he will have some of the skillset, but unlikely all, this is a pretty specialized field and requires specialized hardware and technical knowledge in several areas. That being said, its definitely going to give you a leg up and having a teacher that is enthusiastic about something you want to do is great. lets hope he backs that up, he will probably have to broaden his knowledge in order to back you up.
 
We like your idea too and we'll help where we can, but you needed to be pulled up a second, as you had clearly underestimated what was required. Enthusiasm, support and basic technology are only part of the puzzle, you have a LOT of hard work and research ahead of you before you can even begin.
 
he may, or may not have the equipment needed, you will probably use something akin to ARTA software and you will need a decent ADC and a mic preamp with phantom power, then you will need some instrumentation, this is unlikely to be on hand at least in the arts labs; you may need some cooperation with other departments. a logging oscilloscope, decent bench multimeter and some sort of distortion analyzer.
 
haha you can tell all this over the interwebz can you? thats quite a talent youve got there… funnily enough I worked as a chef for nearly 7yrs on and off and making my own espresso is a ritual carried out here a bit too often. I took a digital media degree (until I got bored, I was already working as a compositor and graphic designer for print media) received a scholarship to Silicon Studio and QANTM for digital animation and film/games production (its all bloody games now and honestly, I dont like them), supported a hobby doing electronic music programming/production.
 
Then about 4-5 years ago after buying some UE triple-fi 10, SE530 and then a pico, to get me through the early morning public transport to get to work without unloading a magazine on someone. I started making my own cables, which became my work, then dac and amps. fast forward till now and everything in my portable and home headphone and speaker systems is DIY... so what have you DIY'd lately?
 
I wouldnt attempt to make my own headphones from scratch though... thats beyond my skill level to do to a level i'd be happy with…
 
 
yeah, you do =) no worries, if youre going to do it, do it well, we dont need another incontinent fart cannon =) in this crowded market
ya, test with the camel drovers…

stay away from flammable gasses when sparker is under test
 

now youre just being silly =D while qusp is away or playing nice, I have the surrogate

 
do remember we are talking about measuring headphones here, a decent ADC with good mic pres should be capable of outdoing them, we arent measuring one of Owen's headphone amps
 
bob, just saw your posts, started this reply last night, so spell-check strikes again; posting on a phone? phone auto'correct' features are responsible for making many people look like retards these days

ya i guess i did kind of underestimate this

... oh well giving up's bad for you. i know the equipent and software isn't really up to par but i never intended these headphones to be crazy awsome sounding, i just want something better than those stupid, horrid, annoying, popular, waste of money called monster studio beats. my $1 earbuds are the only thing i know of that they have a chance of getting close to in sound quality. i'm not kidding i've tested them! my bad spelling is not because of my phone which i can't log in to this forum with but because i actually can't spell.

 

[ujamerstand]

To be honest, it might be an easier starting point for you to modify something like a fostex t50rp before building headphones from scratch. It's cheap, it'll be a good experience to learn about headphone construction, damping and frequency response; best of all there are a ton of information ready for you and a dedicated community on this forum.

You can also build a cheap measurement rig with wm61a mic capsules. It's lot cheaper than buying a calibrated mic and pre, and it'd give you some experience in measuring headphones before spending big bucks on a good setup.

 

[qusp]

Quote:

To be honest, it might be an easier starting point for you to modify something like a fostex t50rp before building headphones from scratch. It's cheap, it'll be a good experience to learn about headphone construction, damping and frequency response; best of all there are a ton of information ready for you and a dedicated community on this forum.
You can also build a cheap measurement rig with wm61a mic capsules. It's lot cheaper than buying a calibrated mic and pre, and it'd give you some experience in measuring headphones before spending big bucks on a good setup.

you still need to calibrate them for them to be of any use, or at least know where the peaks and dips are so you can apply correction.
 
I still dont think you get it Bob, these type of problems exist across the board at all but the cheap end where they dont care so much about audio

 

[veyrongatti]

You know what I was skeptical in the first place. 
I feel your passion try and if  you fail see where you have failed. 

 

[ujamerstand]

you still need to calibrate them for them to be of any use, or at least know where the peaks and dips are so you can apply correction.

I still dont think you get it Bob, these type of problems exist across the board at all but the cheap end where they dont care so much about audio

Yep, WM61A is linear up to ~2khz. Above that its a crap shot. Still a nice thing to experiment with though.

And yes, you can pretty much forget about building something that look and sound better than beats, from scratch, AND on a small budget. Much easier and cheaper to modify off the shelf units first.

 

[hochopeper]

Quote:

 
now youre just being silly =D while qusp is away or playing nice, I have the surrogate

 

Actually, part of that post was as a test for the young protagonist, it is important to be able to tell when advise given is good, misleading or outright bad. This is especially true when relying on the internet for knowledge. No-one here has submitted a resume, how is he to know who is providing useful advise.
 
It may have also been because I knew some would get a much needed hearty laugh out of my suggesting 10's of thousands of dollars of high end test equipment.

 

[hochopeper]

Quote:

ya i guess i did kind of underestimate this

... oh well giving up's bad for you. i know the equipent and software isn't really up to par but i never intended these headphones to be crazy awsome sounding, i just want something better than those stupid, horrid, annoying, popular, waste of money called monster studio beats. my $1 earbuds are the only thing i know of that they have a chance of getting close to in sound quality. i'm not kidding i've tested them! my bad spelling is not because of my phone which i can't log in to this forum with but because i actually can't spell.

Hang on a second here. You have heard ~$1 ear buds. As well as a pair of over-priced-at-half-the-price noise cancelling Monster Audio Beats. Only ever listened to them from an ipood. From this you concluded that the only logical next step is to build your own from scratch? You realise there is many levels of good value equipment between these two price points that you have investigated. With some research you will learn to select which of these equipment, that are within your budget, are well designed and made. This research may even help you make better selections and understand your own preferences for your own design, if you are patient and understand that knowledge and understanding are not quick and easily attained, but learned over time.

 

[builder bob]

Quote:

Hang on a second here. You have heard ~$1 ear buds. As well as a pair of over-priced-at-half-the-price noise cancelling Monster Audio Beats. Only ever listened to them from an ipood. From this you concluded that the only logical next step is to build your own from scratch? You realise there is many levels of good value equipment between these two price points that you have investigated. With some research you will learn to select which of these equipment, that are within your budget, are well designed and made. This research may even help you make better selections and understand your own preferences for your own design, if you are patient and understand that knowledge and understanding are not quick and easily attained, but learned over time.

lol no quite. i didn't have any headphones and i wanted some so i made a pair. i have listened to music threw other things, not just noise canceling beats and super cheap earbuds. i had a pair of skullcandy ink'd earbuds which broke and they replaced with ink'd supream. i also have ear pollution headphoens and i don't know what their name is. at home i run them off my computer with the realy basic iTunes equalizer. i really hope that i will be able to intern with this company over the summer, i'd learn a lot i think and they're near me. here's their site: http://www.custombuds.com/
if speakers start to fail at 12,000 Hz is it bad? it sounds like it would have bad treble?

 

[tintin220]

I applaud your entrepreneurialism for sure, having run a startup myself, but as a MIT graduate with some experience designing speakers, before you start building and engineering your own headphones, you have a lot of EE to learn. Having skimmed your thread, it seems like you still have lots to learn even of the basics as far as circuits and higher level math goes. It also seems like you don't have a lot of the equipment needed to test and measure the performance of your designs -- check local colleges to see if any instructors there would be willing to get you use their lab equipment.
 
Again, I'm not trying to discourage you or tell you it's impossible. I was told that the summer before I began my undergrad, I wouldn't find any success in my startup either, and now I develop DNA chips. That said, I strongly encourage you to seek out help and professional expertise if possible. You're kind of diving headfirst into a large (potentially expensive) project, and it'd be wise to get the advice and help of someone who has more experience and training on this topic. With the limited amount of knowledge you have in EE/physics/sound science, this endeavor seems a bit like a high school graduate deciding to build a spaceship. You just don't know enough stuff, so get some help and mentorship, and good luck!

 

[sfoclt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tintin220 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
...this endeavor seems a bit like a high school graduate deciding to build a spaceship. 

 
Oh please!  These are headphones.  No one is going to die if he screws something up.  Trial and error is a perfectly acceptable approach when one is spending one's own time and money.  He'll learn something from the process and that's infinitely more valuable than your booing from the sidelines.

 

[qusp]

basic reading skills really do seem lacking these days, if you could read entire posts (heaven forbid the thread) you might see that people are encouraging him to go into this eyes open and do some of the research that he has to do anyway if hes to expect any kind of success..... beforehand. we are not discouraging him from talking it on, perhaps this subtlety was lost on you? there is a goal here to make a reasonable set of closed headphones, i'm very sorry, but to try and do that by trial and error with no prior skills or suitable equipment would be a stupid waste of time and money

 

[akiroz]

Quote:

i'm very sorry, but to try and do that by trial and error with no prior skills or suitable equipment would be a stupid waste of time and money

Ahh... story of my life until 3-4 years ago.... (where I actually learn to do research before doing anything)
Wonder why my parents give their kid a load of electronic equipment... lol

 

[tintin220]

Quote:

 
Oh please!  These are headphones.  No one is going to die if he screws something up.  Trial and error is a perfectly acceptable approach when one is spending one's own time and money.  He'll learn something from the process and that's infinitely more valuable than your booing from the sidelines.

 
Try re-reading my post. Nobody is "booing" him, I am encouraging him, but also giving him advice to seek some guidance, which frankly is necessary given his level of knowledge on the subject. No one is going to die from a pair of mis-designed headphones, but as far as difficulty is concerned, trying to design headphones with so little EECS mastery is as daunting as building a rocket with whatever trivial classical mechanics learning you gain from high school physics. 
 
Trial and error is perfectly acceptable, but it's also rather stupid if you don't try to minimize the error. Instead of throwing darts wildly at the entire wall, I'm just suggesting he consult some people with more expertise so at least then, his darts are in the general direction of the dartboard. That way, he won't waste his time and money. 
 
Quote:

basic reading skills really do seem lacking these days, if you could read entire posts (heaven forbid the thread) you might see that people are encouraging him to go into this eyes open and do some of the research that he has to do anyway if hes to expect any kind of success..... beforehand. we are not discouraging him from talking it on, perhaps this subtlety was lost on you? there is a goal here to make a reasonable set of closed headphones, i'm very sorry, but to try and do that by trial and error with no prior skills or suitable equipment would be a stupid waste of time and money

 
Thank you, my thoughts exactly.

 

[sfoclt]

If YOU try re-reading the thread, you'll see I commented early on.  Just because you don't like your negativity being called out is no reason to double-down on stupid.

 

[tintin220]

Quote:

If YOU try re-reading the thread, you'll see I commented early on.  Just because you don't like your negativity being called out is no reason to double-down on stupid.

 
Thanks for the very mature and well-reasoned reply. Remind me where you got your PhD again. /s
 
Let's stay on topic instead of flinging personal insults when unable to produce a decent response, shall we? I stand by everything I said and have no problem being "called out" because it's good advice; I may come off as negative, but doing what you recommend would be "doubling-down on stupid". Don't encourage this kid to waste his resources, you're mis-directing him. 
 
He'll learn a lot more by getting help from a professor, engineer, or even local undergrad, than from random trial and error. Despite what you may believe, that process will gain him little to no valuable experience if he's busy trying to rediscover 300 years of E&M via trial/error instead of just learning that information, and then building off of known designs, etc. Save the trial and error for the actual design, not learning the rudimentary basics.
 
Again, I reiterate. Trial and error is a fine way to spend one's time and money, but not to waste it. 
 
 
Edit: And to get back on topic, for the OP, I personally know some Bose engineers (yeah, yeah, cue the haters) with whom I went to school. If you're interested, I can get you in touch with them, they may be able to help you out, though I'm sure they'll be fairly busy. I believe if you do some digging on MIT's OCW site, there might also be materials on acoustic design and speaker building -- not exactly what you're trying to do as far as enclosure design, but valuable resources nonetheless.