Gustard X20 DAC
May 22, 2016 at 2:17 PM Post #751 of 1,320

For those in Europe.
 
The Gustard X20 now appears to have a european dealer with current stock available
for delivery right now.
 
http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/appareils-hifi-dac/gustard-x20-xmos-symmetrical-out-es9018x2-xmos-usb-aesebu-32bit-384khz-p-11004.html
 
I've used Audiophonics who are based in France a few times, and always found them to
be reliable with decent support levels. The price is about £180.00 higher than I paid,
but I guess that's the price of wanting to buy from a known reliable EU based company.
 
They also have the manual available to download from their store (bottom of page) and
it's on their own server, not that PIA pan.baidu site.
 
May 22, 2016 at 2:35 PM Post #753 of 1,320
Has anyone here tried daphile as opposed to windows (www.daphile.com). It's based on sawn of Unix and open source lms. Bit like a poor man's jplay. You can trial it without making changes to your PC using a USB stick. The built in xMOS driver supports the x20 and u12. I find the sound an improvement on windows.
 
May 22, 2016 at 2:45 PM Post #754 of 1,320
Hi there MINORISUKE
 
Good question, I never even thought about that. Maybe the newer X20's are now CE marked?
Since they probably sell many of these internationally, perhaps they've done that.
 
Audiophonics are an established company selling quite a few international brands, so I asume
they know what they're doing. But you never know ...
 
Anyone bought an X20 in the last few weeks? and care to let us know !!
 
May 22, 2016 at 3:01 PM Post #756 of 1,320
  Hi there MINORISUKE
 
Good question, I never even thought about that. Maybe the newer X20's are now CE marked?
Since they probably sell many of these internationally, perhaps they've done that.
 
Audiophonics are an established company selling quite a few international brands, so I asume
they know what they're doing. But you never know ...
 
Anyone bought an X20 in the last few weeks? and care to let us know !!

I just bought an x20 on friday but it will probably take 2 weeks until it arrives.
 
May 22, 2016 at 3:21 PM Post #757 of 1,320

Hi Whit3Rav3n
 
It would be great if you could take a few pictures once you get it.
 
Inside too if you don't mind taking the lid off. I know that the newer
X20's have Accusilicon main clocks rather than the previous Gustard branded
ones. It would be interesting to see if there are any other changes visible
from the earlier builds.
 
Regards
 
Simon
 
May 22, 2016 at 3:26 PM Post #758 of 1,320
 
Hi Whit3Rav3n
 
It would be great if you could take a few pictures once you get it.
 
Inside too if you don't mind taking the lid off. I know that the newer
X20's have Accusilicon main clocks rather than the previous Gustard branded
ones. It would be interesting to see if there are any other changes visible
from the earlier builds.
 
Regards
 
Simon

No problem, I will take some pictures once it arrives. I am also interested if there are any more changes.
 
May 23, 2016 at 2:13 PM Post #759 of 1,320
Kudos to @simonbromely for venturing so far into the ddc world to get compatibility worked out with the X20.  His progress has been made much more difficult due to bad schematics from the MFG on the PCIe pin assignments.  He is getting closer tho and is inspiring myself to venture in that direction after I finish the mod to my friends X20.  I think I will try the DIYinHK board that will allow dsd 512 and try to connect via hdmi to the x20 and eventually see if I can fit that board inside the x20 and feed off the x20 digital power supply and connect to the PCIe port and mount the board so possibly the usb port is still accessible from the rear as it is now.
 
I have been interrupted in my dac mod by a KCBS BBQ contest that we competed in last weekend, those are labor intensive affairs that consume most of a week for preparation and the actual event, coupled with very little sleep Friday evening of the event.  Before the contest I did get to solder in my custom coax cable into my friends dac, so his dac is in theory very close to my dac in mod levels.  His stage was smaller and possibly less focused than my stage so sometime this week I will reverse the direction of the coax cable (it apparently is very directional).  Once I sort that out then I will apply the Quantum chips and I should be done with the mod and be able to move on to the DDC project.
 
One thing for sure a modded Gustard will beat a stock Gustard hands down.
 
May 23, 2016 at 5:10 PM Post #760 of 1,320
Hey there Quadman
 
I was about to message you when I saw your post ...
 
I finally got direct I2S into the X20's internal PCIe slot to work.
 
The pin assignment diagram that Gustard initially sent me was wrong.
 
Once I swapped the B7 & B9 pins round all was fine, and connection is actually
pretty simple really.
 
I'd previously attempted wiring up the MCLK OUT(pin B17) and MCLK SEL(pin B13)
However, since it doesn't look like DSD input requires these, I didn't wire them
up as I'm only interested in DSD at the moment (3.3v pin B15)
 
Anyway, my recently purchased Audiophonics I2S to HDMI adaptor board is now
redundant. Luckily it only cost about £12.00.
 
I'm currently using PCB pins into the side slots of the PCIe connector.
But will look into maybe adapting/making a high quality PCIe board for this purpose
(standard PCIe cards require modification as some of the pins are inconveniently linked)
 
My WaveIO will now be living inside the X20 casing, with 30/40mm leads going
direct into the PCIe slot.
 
This is what I'd originally wanted when I purchased the WaveIO. It's been a bit of a
journey, but I'm glad I'm there now.
 
Regards
 
Simon
 
May 23, 2016 at 6:07 PM Post #761 of 1,320
Hi Simon
 
Thanks for all your great insights. Why do you use the WaveIO board  when all it is doing is converting USB to I2S. Is it so you can get native dsd 256 without the need for a usb to i2s external device. Also you get access to a decent USB driver? Do you notice an improvement of DSD256 to dsd128 DOP. Also, if you think the WaveIO board is justified, then can you please post 'detailed' instructions on how it is configured. Presumably it is easier accessing the internal X20 cable connections than fiddling with messy HDMI cables?
 
May 24, 2016 at 1:35 PM Post #762 of 1,320

Hi Triplefun
 
There are a number of reasons why I chose the WaveIO.
 
I knew the DDC and computer interface market was changing really fast, and becoming so complex
it was going to take a long while to finally decide on the best way to feed music files into the DAC.
So, I decided to let the hype (and impulse purchase urge) around all these new products settle down
a bit, and make a decision in 6/12 months, when the waters were clearer on what products actually
proved to be worth having.
 
However, I still wanted something to play with so I could learn about this whole
area. After a bit of reading round I decided on the WaveIO.
 
It's very economically priced for what it offers. Taking into account the exchange rate
at the time of purchase, I think I paid the equivalent of £75.00 plus P&P.
It's been manufactured for a number of years, so reliability and customer feed back
are easy to see and assess. Plus, there is no hype surrounding it, yet I've seen it used
in some seriously 'no compromise' systems.
The build quality is simply the best you will find. It may be tiny, but every single
solder joint is sparkling and perfect.
Support from Lucian who produces it is great, and he's happy to discuss stuff via email
or the WaveIO forum page. As well as providing up to date drivers and firmware updates to
the Xmos chip as and when necessary (eg DSD 256 functionality).
 
As for the question of why I'm using the WaveIO the way I am, when all it appears I've done
is replace the existing decent Gustard Xmos based card with the WaveIO based Xmos card.
 
Well, like much in HiFi, a lot of it comes down to power supply quality.
The Xmos chip on the Gustard card is popular with many companies, as it intergrates a USB
hub and many small smps regs into it to power the various functions. This keeps build costs
and size down. However, there are those who feel this approach compromises this chip a bit.
The Xmos chip on the WaveIO has a seperate USB hub and many off-chip high quality linear
regulators to power all the various chip functions and board parts.
The Gustard card is fed 5 volts of power from the X20. At the higher sample rates
many people like to use now (DSD256/PCM384 etc) this card will probably be consuming
between 0.3A & 0.4A . Removing the card will reduce the demand on the X20's digital
power supply circuitry, as well as possibly producing a cleaner electronic environment
within the DAC for the clocks and Altera FPGA chip to do their thing.
The WaveIO is able to be powered by it's own separate external  high quality liner power
supply. Add this to the high quality on board regulation, and this Xmos chip has, in theory,
much cleaner power to work with than the standard card.
Plus, the WaveIO has both direct and isolated I2S outputs. I use the isolated outputs,
which require another totally separate high quality linear psu.
It also has USB header pins as well as a USB plug socket. So I can easily attach
ultra short jumper leads to a (modified) W4S Recovery (this will also go inside the
X20's case & have yet another linear PSU) and so get rid of one more cable from the
chain.
 
However, despite offering (what in my opinion) is a significant hike up in sound quality.
The WaveIO is no easy or cheap option. This is a 100% diy device, for those who know
at least a little about electronics . Plus, once you add up the cost of two high quality
PSU's, as well as having to mount it safely internally, route cables, as well as supply
3.3v and 5v control lines, and work with some very small fiddly wiring. It's only really
for the dedicated.
Non diyer's are probably better served with something like the SU-1. You just buy a
HDMI cable and plug it in to get good sound. Lol ...
 
Hope that helps clarify my reasons for using the WaveIO a bit.
 
I've never compared DSD 256 to DSD 128 DOP, so can't help you there I'm afraid.
 
Also, whilst I'm happy to post up general information about my experiences and what I've tried.
I won't be doing anything like a comprehensive guide. Partly due to the time it takes, partly
because, if someone decides to follow my 'instructions' and it all goes horribly wrong, then I
will undoubtedly be 'somehow' held to blame. Also, apart from working out which pins to use on
the X20's internal PCIe slot, I've only followed what others have done on this and other forums.
Though I can solder, my electronics abilities are probably best described as enthusiastically
incompetent. If you're concerned about warranty, or uncomfortable messing about with the insides
of your DAC, don't try this stuff. There are plenty of qualified electronics engineers out there
who will happily provide an upgrade service to you for a reasonable fee, and unlike me actually
know what they are doing, rather than my 'hey if I just poke this wire in here' approach. Lol ...
 
Best regards
 
Simon
 
May 25, 2016 at 4:59 AM Post #763 of 1,320
  Has anyone here tried daphile as opposed to windows (www.daphile.com). It's based on sawn of Unix and open source lms. Bit like a poor man's jplay. You can trial it without making changes to your PC using a USB stick. The built in xMOS driver supports the x20 and u12. I find the sound an improvement on windows.


I'm also using daphile with my X20 (fuse and power mods) using Native DSD and oversampled PCM (384/352.8) on a dedicated e130 laptop with very short usb (150mm) cable. I previously used on the same laptop windows 10 with optimization on services and fidelizer.
 
I use F.A. Elise as amplifier and T1/HD650 as HP.
 
For me Daphile improves dynamic and resolution using standard USB over Windows. It is also very convenient to control it as any squezzbox from phone or web..
 
Daphile use much less ressources (specially if used as client only) but pcm to DSD256 real time oversamplig is not efficient. So for the ones that want to only play DSD256 Daphile is not a option. Anyhopw, if you have a spare HD/SSD ready give a try...
 
If i want DSD convertion i do it offline and prepare listening session on external hardrive, a bit time consuming but i store on my nas for next use...
I do have 24Bit/48-96-192Khz file and prefer real time oversampling to 384Khz than DSD conversion.
 
May 25, 2016 at 2:11 PM Post #764 of 1,320
  Hey there Quadman
 
I was about to message you when I saw your post ...
 
I finally got direct I2S into the X20's internal PCIe slot to work.
 
The pin assignment diagram that Gustard initially sent me was wrong.
 
Once I swapped the B7 & B9 pins round all was fine, and connection is actually
pretty simple really.
 
I'd previously attempted wiring up the MCLK OUT(pin B17) and MCLK SEL(pin B13)
However, since it doesn't look like DSD input requires these, I didn't wire them
up as I'm only interested in DSD at the moment (3.3v pin B15)
 
Anyway, my recently purchased Audiophonics I2S to HDMI adaptor board is now
redundant. Luckily it only cost about £12.00.
 
I'm currently using PCB pins into the side slots of the PCIe connector.
But will look into maybe adapting/making a high quality PCIe board for this purpose
(standard PCIe cards require modification as some of the pins are inconveniently linked)
 
My WaveIO will now be living inside the X20 casing, with 30/40mm leads going
direct into the PCIe slot.
 
This is what I'd originally wanted when I purchased the WaveIO. It's been a bit of a
journey, but I'm glad I'm there now.
 
Regards
 
Simon

 
Hi Simon,
 
Do you mind to share the pinout of the PCIe connector?  I bought an U20 w/o USB, so I want to adapt a DIYINHK board to the inside.
 
Thanks!
 
May 25, 2016 at 2:16 PM Post #765 of 1,320
 
I'm also using daphile with my X20 (fuse and power mods) using Native DSD and oversampled PCM (384/352.8) on a dedicated e130 laptop with very short usb (150mm) cable. I previously used on the same laptop windows 10 with optimization on services and fidelizer.
 
I use F.A. Elise as amplifier and T1/HD650 as HP.
 
For me Daphile improves dynamic and resolution using standard USB over Windows. It is also very convenient to control it as any squezzbox from phone or web..
 
Daphile use much less ressources (specially if used as client only) but pcm to DSD256 real time oversamplig is not efficient. So for the ones that want to only play DSD256 Daphile is not a option. Anyhopw, if you have a spare HD/SSD ready give a try...
 
If i want DSD convertion i do it offline and prepare listening session on external hardrive, a bit time consuming but i store on my nas for next use...
I do have 24Bit/48-96-192Khz file and prefer real time oversampling to 384Khz than DSD conversion.


I  recently installed Daphile on a HP Xeon workstation computer that I picked out of the trash!!!  It didn't have a hard drive installed so it was perfect for Daphile.  It does sound better than my old Squeezebox.  Now that I have it set up my Schiit Bifrost Uber sounds better than ever but I am considering going the Gustard route with Daphile.  My Bifrost doesn't have usb on it so I would need to upgrade that anyway or buy a Gustard to process higher bitrates. I'm running USB out to a Behringer $40 dac that has optical out into the Bifrost.  You say "pcm to DSD real time oversampling is not efficient"  is that because the laptop you run is not powerful enough or is  the Daphile program not handling it?  My CPU mark is at 4236 not sure if that is strong enough to do PCM to DSD efficiently.  The reason I ask is because Gustard is reportedly sounding best playing PCM to DSD.  So my dilemma of going with a better Shiit dac and forgetting the whole oversampled DSD or trying to make the Gustard work.  Thoughts? 
 

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