[jeffjazz]

  I have no idea on the impact on the audio quality (jitter!) but you could always try a USB Ethernet extender (see http://www.amazon.com/IOGEAR-Ethernet-Extender-GUCE51-Black/dp/B000O2X2OA) and do away with the Touch. This might also be useful - http://archimago.blogspot.co.nz/2013/12/measurements-usb-cable-extension-with.html

The convenience of using the Touch is so that I can control all of my music from my phone using the Squeezebox app.  How would I control all of my CDs burned onto my Hardrive and Tidal app remotely?
If I can upsample everything and run a long USB cable as you suggested AND be able to control it remotely, I'd have the best sound I could get out of the Gustard and I could sell the Touch then.
Don't know if this is possible, and probably getting too technical for me.  Thanks!

 

[SimonBromley]

My WaveIO card works fine at DSD 256 using the supplied 3.34 driver, but I don't think it's physically capable of going any higher, and I'm not sure the U12 is either. I thinks it's only something the newer faster chips can achieve. (but I may be wrong)
 
However, when I tried out the 3.2 driver using the internal USB card and HQplayer, the X20 played back DSD 256 no problem at all. The 3.2 evaluation driver is freely available, and HQplayer is free to try for a month, so anyone with an X20 can try out DSD 256 if they want. As long as they have a reasonably powerful computer to do the conversion.
 
Just out of interest, I downloaded the DIYINHK driver, but it would simply NOT see my X20. Maybe I did something wrong, but when I reloaded the 3.2 evaluation driver everything worked fine again. So this functionality may be very system dependent.
 
Cheers
 
Simon

 

[Triplefun]

 
The convenience of using the Touch is so that I can control all of my music from my phone using the Squeezebox app.  How would I control all of my CDs burned onto my Hardrive and Tidal app remotely?
If I can upsample everything and run a long USB cable as you suggested AND be able to control it remotely, I'd have the best sound I could get out of the Gustard and I could sell the Touch then.
Don't know if this is possible, and probably getting too technical for me.  Thanks!

Most music applications (eg. Foobar and JRiver) have android and apple apps for remote control of the music. Also support Tidal plugin. Functionality is the same as LMS. You don't need the touch; better still relocate it to the kitchen!

 

[hpamdr]

 
The convenience of using the Touch is so that I can control all of my music from my phone using the Squeezebox app.  How would I control all of my CDs burned onto my Hardrive and Tidal app remotely?
If I can upsample everything and run a long USB cable as you suggested AND be able to control it remotely, I'd have the best sound I could get out of the Gustard and I could sell the Touch then.
Don't know if this is possible, and probably getting too technical for me.  Thanks!

if you have a laptop you want to transform on LMS and/or SqueezeBox client you can use DAPHILE you will be able to play up to DSD256. It is easy to intall and configure ...

PCM oversamplind up to 352.8/384 does not use many resources but DSD Oversampling is not as efficient as jriver or foobar..

https://www.daphile.com/

 

[Quadman]

  My WaveIO card works fine at DSD 256 using the supplied 3.34 driver, but I don't think it's physically capable of going any higher, and I'm not sure the U12 is either. I thinks it's only something the newer faster chips can achieve. (but I may be wrong)
 
However, when I tried out the 3.2 driver using the internal USB card and HQplayer, the X20 played back DSD 256 no problem at all. The 3.2 evaluation driver is freely available, and HQplayer is free to try for a month, so anyone with an X20 can try out DSD 256 if they want. As long as they have a reasonably powerful computer to do the conversion.
 
Just out of interest, I downloaded the DIYINHK driver, but it would simply NOT see my X20. Maybe I did something wrong, but when I reloaded the 3.2 evaluation driver everything worked fine again. So this functionality may be very system dependent.
 
Cheers
 
Simon

Simon, I installed the 3.2 from day 1 and I tried DSD256 up sampling with HQplayer and it wouldn't go, I used bit rate 11.2896 Mhz.  I will have to try that again tonight.  My Gustard was purchased around the end of February.  I hope it works.  My i7 would handle it easily.

 

[SimonBromley]

Hey there Quadman
 
Is that a version of 3.2 from the internet, or the evaluation one direct from Xmos?
The evaluation version is 13.2 meg in size. You run that, then go into the Thesycon
folder now located on the C drive. Go into the DriverPackages folder and then run the
Xmos_Eval_Kits_Demo_DriverSetup file. There are two, I chose the larger 2112 kb file.
 
After this you can select the driver on the HQplayer set up page. When HQplayer starts
it automatically scans the output device to see what it is capable of, and on my system 
the option for DSD 256 shows up in the third (frequency) button on the main screen.
Once set up, anything I play shows up as DSD 256 on the X20's display. I use the filter 
set to 70.
 
This is all using the X20's internal USB card.
 
The limitations of the driver being that after one hours normal uninterrupted use it 
begins to emit a loud beep once every five minutes. This can be reset if needed by 
either unplugging the usb cable and then reinserting it. Or simply doing a shut down 
& restart of the computer. On a reasonably fast computer with an SSD it will take 
less than 60 seconds before you're fully up an running and listening to music again. 
HQplayer remembers all your setting, so no resetting up. 
 
Whilst it's no good for long term use, it will give you an idea of whether you want 
to use DSD 256 in the future or not.
 
Hope this helps ..
 
The lack of a proper up to date driver for the X20 is very disappointing. I presume
Gustard must be working on a super new USB interface (something like the upcoming Singxer SU-1)
as the U12 is past its best now. Which they hope all the X20 users will upgrade to
when it comes out. This would have to have the latest drivers or simply be left behind.
 
If a tiny one man operation like Lucian, who produces the WaveIO, can provide a fully
licenced version of the latest Thesycon drivers, there is simply no excuse for a company
like Gustard not to. Sure margins are probably tight, but they are missing out on a large
amount of potential sales. As I know many who are interested in this DAC are holding off 
from purchasing, because they see guys like us having to search the internet for dodgy
drivers, or purchase another interface with proper drivers, to get the best sound from it.
Not a great sales strategy ... and not great for the companies reputation as it moves forward.
 
Hopefully the next few months will bring us some nice unexpected surprises !! We shall see ...
 
Simon

 

[ginetto61]

Originally Posted by SimonBromley /img/forum/go_quote.gif...  If a tiny one man operation like Lucian, who produces the WaveIO, can provide a fully licenced version of the latest Thesycon drivers, there is simply no excuse for a company like Gustard not to.   Sure margins are probably tight, but they are missing out on a large amount of potential sales....  Simon

 
Hi ! if you think that they do not even have a web site ...

    this is the very first thing to set up for a serious business
if only to get feedback from customers and provide them with a minimum support
Nevertheless this has not prevented me to buy one

regards, gino

 

[Quadman]

@SimonBromley I get it, I was using the 3.2 driver from Pan.Baidu which took quite some effort to download or even get to the site to download.  I tried again last night with that and had some stoppage issues then had a song start playing and my CPU usage was now in the upper 20's but the X20u display still showed DSD128.  When I dropped the sample rate back to DSD128 cpu usage went back to 12% range and display still showed DSD128.  I may try to download that version and see what 256 is all about.  Dang I wish we could just get a driver that works at 256 with no annoying beeps.  Agree on the PIA ways we have to hunt for stuff but then again, this sound for under $900 are you kidding me

 

[Ken57]

Is the X20 worth getting if it is only used SE (with an H10)? 
 
Does going balanced really improve the sound quality? Thanks.

 

[Quadman]

  Is the X20 worth getting if it is only used SE (with an H10)? 
 
Does going balanced really improve the sound quality? Thanks.

Ric, who is modding these dac's, is listening exclusively 16/44 via RCA coax in from his modded oppo 103 player and is raving about the sound.  Not sure abut H10 as I have not heard but Ric is extremely happy running as is.  I also listened the same way as Ric for the first two days and quickly realized the potential this dac had.

 

[Ken57]

thanks. I might get one soon.
 
But, is half wasted (not used) running in SE? Maybe there is a cheaper solution?
 
I only have a small iBasso d14 portable DAC and I'm assuming it will make a big difference.

 

[Quadman]

  thanks. I might get one soon.
 
But, is half wasted (not used) running in SE? Maybe there is a cheaper solution?
 
I only have a small iBasso d14 portable DAC and I'm assuming it will make a big difference.

I never listened balanced, as I don't have a source that outputs balanced.  I listen via USB and called the dac a paradigm in my listening, as it presented music in my system in a never before heard way.  Stunning.  It probably is very good balanced because it is very good SE and via USB.

 

[SimonBromley]

You have to sign into the Xmos site which takes a couple of minutes to set up, but once you have it
takes all of 20 seconds to download the file. And at least it's the legit Xmos file. That Pan Baidu is the
worst site I have ever been on, and I don't really trust anything downloaded from it.
 
My cpu runs low 20's upsampling to DSD 128, and high 20's upsampling to DSD 256. With my prefered
setting of poly-sinc-short-mp & ASDM7 at 11289600 DSD. Whilst I really like my WaveIO and think Lucians
customer service and support are excellent. I can't deny being tempted by something like the Singxer F-1.
Those crystek clocks and isolation are certainly calling out to me. Lol ...
However, after my experiences getting the HDMI input to work I may just wait for the SU-1. I initially purchased
an Audio GD HDMI output module to try. I knew I'd have to modify it a bit, but at least it has signal access points
built into it. Firstly though I had to fix the module as there was a resistor missing, and I can't say I'm overly impressed
by the build quality. Anyway, after much effort and swearing I got the interface to work, by directly connecting the wiring
of one end of an HDMI cable into the appropriate points of the Audio GD board, as well as having a nest of wires for
switching DSD etc etc.
It looks a mess, and despite seeming to work ok, is unlikely to be giving me the very best performance. So, I'm going
to have one last attempt with a new adaptor board.
http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/interfaces/hdmi-to-i2s-module-p-10754.html
This gives me easy access to the pins for DSD switching etc, and just needs inversion swap on two channels (hopefully) to
get it working. I'll probably get someone better at this stuff than me to either jump the chip legs, or fit a modded hdmi
connector. I don't want to be chopping up cables again. Hopefully, if it works well with the WaveIO, I'll get a Singxer F-1
to try. If not it will be a Singxer SU-1 in a couple of months.
 
Anyway, as for single ended against balanced. I have to say it's difficult for me to give a definitive opinion. The X20
sounds pretty good into my single ended set up, but does sound a fair bit better through my balanced set up. Which it
should, as the balanced set up is a far higher quality system. However, you'll probably struggle to get anything better
sounding than the X20 for the money at the moment.
 
Simon

 

[crazychile]

 

  thanks. I might get one soon.
 
But, is half wasted (not used) running in SE? Maybe there is a cheaper solution?
 
I only have a small iBasso d14 portable DAC and I'm assuming it will make a big difference.

I never listened balanced, as I don't have a source that outputs balanced.  I listen via USB and called the dac a paradigm in my listening, as it presented music in my system in a never before heard way.  Stunning.  It probably is very good balanced because it is very good SE and via USB.

I think Ken may be asking about the balanced outputs from the DAC, not the AES/EBU digital input. Two different issues.
 
But generally the AES/EBU digital input is favored with most DACs if you have the capability with the source. Balanced analog outputs should also sound better provided it is a true dual differential design. (I haven't looked at the Gustard closely enough to tell) However, That doesn't mean that single ended is bad. Still for $860 I wouldn't wait for a stripped down to single ended version.

 

[Quadman]

@crazychile yea, you are probably right.  My system is fully SE and it sounds wonderful, I don't listen to HP, except when working out and those are earbuds, which of course, are not balanced.  Unless he only has balanced HP no reason not to take the plunge.  Note the Gustard does not have a headphone out option per se, it's balanced output voltage has been measured at 6.6V way to high for head phones and attenuating via volume control that much may sacrifice SQ.