Gustard X20 DAC
Jan 18, 2016 at 6:17 PM Post #361 of 1,320
  Hello everyone, 
I received my X20U few days ago but I can not make it works under windows 10. Do you how to use my driver under windows 10 ?
Thanks for your advices.
 

 
Try using one of these drivers ..
 
Use the drivers recommended by Gustard and posted by gulakpi (see post #300). They are both digitally signed and include a driver delete. My X20u worked fine with either using Windows 10 64bit..
 
You can try the following v3.2 first, http://pan.baidu.com/s/1V7oJG
In case it doesn't work, try the v2.6  http://pan.baidu.com/s/1ntDUtqp
 
You can install these in Windows standard mode. If you are using unsigned drivers then you need to reboot Windows 10 into 'unsigned driver' mode.
 
Look at my post #330 for how to access the Chinese web sites ....
 
Once successfully  loaded you should see 2 entries in your device manager ..
 
   Sound, video and game controllers - XMOS XS1-U8 MFA (ST)
   XMOS USB Audio 2.0 ST - XMOS XS1-U8 MFA (ST)
 
And your audio playback devices will include reference to XMOS audio device
 
If you are using Foobar then I had issues with some of the standard offerings. See my post #227 for a configuration that works.

 
Jan 19, 2016 at 7:19 AM Post #362 of 1,320
Confirmation from a Gustard seller:
 
"We have confirmed with GUSTARD engineering manager.
5.6V is correct."
 
Disappointing that the specs are incorrect in the product description and it's taken this long in the thread to fully establish. 
 
On a side note, after ~ 130 hours, I prefer 'normal' clock mode with the internal usb board. With 'auto' the sound thickens and bass becomes slightly muddy.  'Normal' is more of an open window. 
 
Jan 19, 2016 at 2:45 PM Post #363 of 1,320
I've a question for the owners : does your remote power off the DAC ? There is a On/Off button on the remote (on top right), but it does nothing .

 
This is correct behaviour. The on/off button on the remote is not implemented in the Gustard X20U. In the manual there is a picture of the remote and all buttons except the on/off button are labeled and have a corresponding description.  There is no mention of a remote on/off functionality.
 
 Roberto
 
Jan 19, 2016 at 5:28 PM Post #365 of 1,320
hi - I'm a newbie to Headfi and I've been lurking on this thread for a few weeks. In fact, largely based on reviewers comments regarding the X20 on this forum I decided at Christmas to take the plunge and order one. It arrived yesterday.
 
I have been using a Weiss DAC2 which I'm sure many of you will be familiar with. It's a serious, pro DAC built in Switzerland and has a gorgeous sound. Lately, I had been using it with the Gustard U12 DDC as the Weiss had no USB input and the U12 allowed me to run SPDIF to the Weiss. I was hugely impressed with the U12, another reason why I was tempted by the X20.
 
I've had a couple of evenings with the X20 now and quite honestly I'm taken aback by the quality of this product at its price. To my ears, it comfortably performs as well if not better than the Weiss. In what ways better? - well, it seems to have a degree more clarity, acoustic tones are very natural, sound staging is pretty good too although I've not really focused too much on that so far. 
 
I'm running the X20 directly into a Conrad Johnson LP70S power amp which works just great. Overall, two days in, I'm really pleased with this product. I've still to work out whether I think it makes any difference running a USB connection directly into the X20 or whether I should keep the U12 in the chain and use its I2S connection. Folk may have views on that.
 
The other thing I should say is that I've got it working with both El Capitan OSX and Windows 10 - on Windows I'm using the Thesycon 2.23 driver. Would there be any benefit in trying a more up to date driver?    
 
Jan 19, 2016 at 7:46 PM Post #366 of 1,320

Hey there BrainFood.
 
Thanks for the information.
 
5.6v on XLR and 2.8v on RCA is one heck of a lot. And, that's averaged. 
There's usually a manufacturing tolerance of +/- .1v or .2v on stated 
outputs. So I could easily see some X20's pushing 5.8v.
 
No wonder my poor old Pathos amps were struggling.
 
It makes no sense to me why they've pushed the output up so high, and would 
love to hear from the company about the reason behind this particular decision.
And what about those extra gain settings ? 
I may be wrong, but wouldn't +6db double the output to 11.2v, and +12db quadruple 
output to 22.4v. What's the use of those levels, anybody know ?
 
Luckily, the X20 sounds great, and I can't detect any quality loss by using the 
unit at -9db. I tried a borrowed pair of Rothwell -10db XLR attenuators, and 
thought they veiled the sound a fraction compared to simply lowering the X20's 
output.
 
So, I'm just going to leave the X20 set to -9db and accept that's just the way it is.
 
As for the clock settings. I'm currently preferring the Auto mode. Though I still 
don't quite know what the Auto mode actually is ... looking at the previous posts 
I gather that it makes far more use of the computer, transport or DDC's clock, and 
the better this is the better Auto mode will work. 
I guess my X20 will therefore be referencing the NDK – NZ2520SD clocks on my WaveIO card.
And hopefully, the 5volt LPSU I'm working on for the card will take everything, including 
the clock quality up a notch. We shall see ...
 
Anyway ... Hi there otisbass, glad you're enjoying your X20.
 
I've got no idea about driver quality etc I'm afraid. I haven't really got into playing 
about with the software side of things very much yet.
 
Cheers  
 
Simon
 
Jan 19, 2016 at 7:56 PM Post #367 of 1,320
Hi Otisbass
 
Congratulations on the X20 purchase and welcome to the forum
 
If you are into upsampling (Foobar,JRiver,HQPlayer,JPlay) and your PC is powerful enough (2000+ on JRiver benchmark using Windows 10)  then use the WaveIO Thesycon XMOS 2.2 driver to upsample to DSD256 on the U12 and then use a standard HDMI cable to connect the U12 to the X20. The X20 will then process DSD256.
 
I used Chodi's Gustard modified Thesycon 2.23 XMOS driver http://www.speedyshare.com/RXMDH/Luckit-2.23-for-Gustard-U12.rar
And successfully installed on Windows 10 64bit using the 'unsigned driver' advanced setting mode. I have set the WaveIO driver buffer to 'extra safe'.
 
This produced a noticeable improvement on PCM and even DSD128 upsample.
 
Jan 20, 2016 at 6:42 AM Post #369 of 1,320
 
Quote:
 
Hey there BrainFood.
 
Thanks for the information.
 
5.6v on XLR and 2.8v on RCA is one heck of a lot. And, that's averaged. 
There's usually a manufacturing tolerance of +/- .1v or .2v on stated 
outputs. So I could easily see some X20's pushing 5.8v.
 
No wonder my poor old Pathos amps were struggling.
 
It makes no sense to me why they've pushed the output up so high, and would 
love to hear from the company about the reason behind this particular decision.

 
The main reason seems to me quite obvious: that the X20U can also be used as a preamplifier (see more below - also, not that it may be its optimal use, but it is intended at least to function as such) and to make it easier to match it with the inputs of various amps and preamps.  This is a point where the X20 is clearly superior to other DACs.
 
Whereas on DACs like the X-Sabre you do not have volume control, and thus are known to saturate the input of some preamps, the X20 is better because you can attenuate in the digital domain, and since it is internally computing with a lot of headroom (48 bit DSP, with a claimed resolution of up to 32 bit in the DACs) I would definitely not worry at all about signal loss.  Have a look at the expected input of your preamp, and reduce the the max output of the DAC to match that.  Example, the Abrahamsen V30 preamp is probably ideally matched to the Abrahamsen DAC that has 3.2Vrms on the balanced output, so I configured the X20 with a -5Db attenuation.  5.6*2^(-5/6)=3.142 Vrms and it indeed seems to sound at its best there.
 
As we discussed in other posts, up to -40Db there should be no loss of quality (and at that level, it would be probably too soft anyway)
 
 
Luckily, the X20 sounds great, and I can't detect any quality loss by using the 
unit at -9db. I tried a borrowed pair of Rothwell -10db XLR attenuators, and 
thought they veiled the sound a fraction compared to simply lowering the X20's 
output.

 
Again, to use it without a preamp!  I tried to connect the X20U directly to my Abrahamsen V40 power amp.  Listening at -25Db with gain = 0Db the volume level was the same as with the amp.  The soundstage was slightly larger and deeper (as to be expected since there are less active components for both channels, relatively close to each other, that may thus reduce channel separation) but the sound was more fatiguing and slightly too bright - less mellow in general. Detail was comparable (this tells a LOT about the quality of that preamp).  I know some types of audiophile that would prefer it without preamp, I belong to those that prefer the configuration WITH the preamp.  Chacun à son gout.
 
If you are listening in a much larger room, with less sensitive speakers, then the gain levels of +6Db or +12Db may come out useful (say you just connect the DAC with longer balanced connections to mono blocks close to the speakers).
 
Luckily, the X20 sounds great, and I can't detect any quality loss by using the 
unit at -9db. I tried a borrowed pair of Rothwell -10db XLR attenuators, and 
thought they veiled the sound a fraction compared to simply lowering the X20's 
output.


 
This confirms my suspicion that adding attenuating cables can deteriorate the sound. 
 
Set the volume of the DAC to -9Db and be happy. I know (as a professional mathematician) that mathematics for some reason does not explain everything in audio, but I would really not worry at all because of such a relatively minor level of attenuation in the digital domain on a ES9018 based DAC.
 
Cheers  
 
Jan 20, 2016 at 7:08 AM Post #370 of 1,320
  @mocenigo
 
thanks for the advice, i'll do as you suggest. (no attenuator)
 
Now....I tried to download the English manual, but I couldn't figure it out...whare does one have to click on the Chinese "sentences"?...


Good question.
@MINORISUKE has posted this link http://yun.baidu.com/s/1jH1SCg2 and on the top you should see a download picture (arrow pointing down to a little tray), and upon clicking on that in my case it just downloads the file that contains the chinese and english manuals back to back...
 
Jan 20, 2016 at 7:53 AM Post #371 of 1,320
Hi there mocenigo
 
I think you're right. They've made a DAC to fit all posibilities, not 
just something for regular line level use.
 
After some experimentation and much reading I'm now happy to leave
the X20 set at -9db and not think I'm missing anything.
 
I've tried the X20 direct, and I too find the presentation preferable 
with my preamp in place. Then again, I've always liked a bit of warmth 
to my music. Which I guess is why I've still got my old Pathos gear ...
 
Many thanks
 
Simon
 
Jan 20, 2016 at 8:02 AM Post #372 of 1,320
  Hi there mocenigo
 
I think you're right. They've made a DAC to fit all posibilities, not 
just something for regular line level use.
 
After some experimentation and much reading I'm now happy to leave
the X20 set at -9db and not think I'm missing anything.
 
I've tried the X20 direct, and I too find the presentation preferable 
with my preamp in place. Then again, I've always liked a bit of warmth 
to my music. Which I guess is why I've still got my old Pathos gear ...
 
Many thanks
 
Simon

 
Just enjoy the music.  If I were the betting type I would bet my money that you are not missing anything.  This DAC seems to be really good to my ears - and its been on for only 45 hours.
 
 Roberto
 
Jan 20, 2016 at 8:19 AM Post #373 of 1,320
Hi Roberto
 
It's all too easy to get sucked into the 'technical' side of this hobby. Lol ... Which can be
fun, but it is ALL about enjoyment of the music at the end of the day. And I am certainly
enjoying the sound I'm hearing from my X20 ...
 
Cheers
 
Simon
 
Jan 20, 2016 at 8:24 AM Post #374 of 1,320

Hi there MINORISUKE
 
I now have the pin assignments for the PCIe card.
 
I shall probably put a switch on the back of the X20 
to select between PCM/DSD mode as that looks like the 
simplest thing to do.
 
However, have you had to wire up the MCLK SEL pin at B13 ?
Looking at the notes it says that the MCLK SEL pin is used 
to switch between the 22.579 and 24.576 clocks. Is this correct ?
 
I'm guessing this might be part of the AUTO clock mode where 
the X20 references the incoming clock signal. But I have no 
real idea. Pin B17 also says MCLK OUT rather than IN, is that 
significant. What are your experiences so far ?
 
Many thanks 
 
Simon
 
Jan 20, 2016 at 8:48 AM Post #375 of 1,320
  I used Chodi's Gustard modified Thesycon 2.23 XMOS driver http://www.speedyshare.com/RXMDH/Luckit-2.23-for-Gustard-U12.rar

 
Thanks for that.  I assume this only works on the external U12 unit and not the X20 with internal usb?
 
I intend to use the internal card for at least a few months and would love to find an x20 driver that allows changing of buffer settings.  Does such a driver exist currently? 
regular_smile .gif

 
 
   
 Have a look at the expected input of your preamp, and reduce the the max output of the DAC to match that.  Example, the Abrahamsen V30 preamp is probably ideally matched to the Abrahamsen DAC that has 3.2Vrms on the balanced output, so I configured the X20 with a -5Db attenuation.  5.6*2^(-5/6)=3.142 Vrms and it indeed seems to sound at its best there.


 
Thanks for clarifying the matter. If looking for a matching preamp, what kind of input sensitivity would be ideal (millivolts)?  Granted, you can use the x20 attentuation without any penalty but it's still nice to have decent range on the external preamp's volume control.
 
I belong to those that prefer the configuration WITH the preamp.

 
You are not alone with that one!   In theory, 'the best preamp is no preamp' but, in practice, a good pre can be beneficial subjectively.  Unfortunately, they don't often come cheap, so it's useful to have the volume control on the x20 as an option
regular_smile .gif
.   It would be great if Gustard incorporated a preamp into their (touted) upcoming matching headamp but maybe that decision has already been taken.
 
 Listening at -25Db with gain = 0Db ......the sound was more fatiguing and slightly too bright

 
You might like to check again at around the 130 hour mark because, for me at least, things started to settle properly at that point. YMMV though.
 
 
  I'm currently preferring the Auto mode.

 
Hehe, today I'm preferring it too.  Yesterday it was 'normal'.  Tomorrow, who knows?
 

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