[PLGA]

Interesting comment above; disconnecting the power from the USB to the U16 increases SQ

I am finding here in 2 systems the U16 really likes the W4S Recovery reclocker cleaning up the USB input.
...opened the soundstage and added realistic detail to vocals and cymbals.
I am using pretty expensive power for these (Uptone LPS1.2 or LPS1.0 powered by 8.5V 3A LPS with good cables), so maybe that is a good part of the improvement.. not sure

https://wyred4sound.com/products/digital-converters/recovery

149 USD with discount code wyred4RECOVERY

Hello motberg
I also have the W4S USB Reclocker (RUR) with a Linear Power Supply feeding the U16 and then to my Audio-gd R8 DAC.
I must say I agreed with you about the good sound of the RUR with LPS feeding the U16. Outstanding!

 

[rafabro]

Interesting comment above; disconnecting the power from the USB to the U16 increases SQ

I am finding here in 2 systems the U16 really likes the W4S Recovery reclocker cleaning up the USB input.
...opened the soundstage and added realistic detail to vocals and cymbals.
I am using pretty expensive power for these (Uptone LPS1.2 or LPS1.0 powered by 8.5V 3A LPS with good cables), so maybe that is a good part of the improvement.. not sure

What is your source/transport exactly?

 

[motberg]

What is your source/transport exactly?

Hi, I have 2 systems,

The one with the NOS7 DAC is a dual PC setup output via a JPlay V2 USB PCIe card (LPS>Uptone LPS 1> 1.5 A LT3045 box)..
(I would need some time to write down computers details, but they both use LPS's, fanless, JPlay Femto in Control PC/Audio PC software setup),
I use an Intona Industrial USB isolator after the JPlay card and then to a Recovery (powered by a 3A LPS to Uptone LPS-1.2) then to the U16 and then to Audio-GD NOS7 via Wireworld Starlight 7 HDMI 0.5M . This setup works in all PCM up to 384K. (I think the Recovery helps this system due to cleaning up the Intona output)

The other system below is where I just also introduced a Recovery... (I think this system below gets better Recovery benefit due to the PPA v2 USB card is not as refined as the JPlay used above)

Computer details: Gigabyte GA-Z87M-D3H, I5-4670t, NOFAN CR-95c, 2x4 GB Corsair, TeraDak 210 ATX LPS, PPA V2 USB card (LPS with iFi DC iPurifier), 32GB OS SSD (LPS), PS/2 mouse, USB keyboard, on-board video (monitor is powered off during play), 256+500GB SSD's for primary music (all WAV files), all SSD's use PPA red thin SATA cables and suspension blocks, (all SSD's use independent LPS's),

Software: WIN2012 Server Core and AO, Older version HQPlayer* feeding JPlay FEMTO, Total Commander for navigation.

Then: PPA USB card > PPA dual USB 1.8M cable > Singxer UIP-1 USB isolator (2A LPS with iFi DC iPurifier powers UIP-1) > PPA .5m USB > W4S Recovery (3A LPS to Uptone LPS-1 with iFi DC iPurifier2 powers Recovery) > PPA 0.2M USB > Gustard U16 > HDMI (Wireworld Starlight 5.2, 0.3M) i2S > Audio-GD R1.

*This setup requires to upsample everything to 384 Khz for the U16 to work.

I was running this without the Recovery for about a month, so got a good feeling for the SQ presentation... recently adding the Recovery was immediately noticeable.

The DAC's and U16's are powered by an Audio-GD HE350 220v regenerator.
I put Mumetal sheets in critical areas where components/cables needed to be located close together.

This may seem overkill - but my place probably has very dirty mains power, thus the benefit from isolation and reclocking the computers USB output.
In fact, I tried an Uptone ISO Regen - and with that inline my computer would shutdown whenever I clicked any local light switch.. but isolation related problems was not totally unique for the ISORegen, my guess is between 10% to 15% of users could not use the isolation for that device.
The Intona Industrial and Singxer UIP-1 USB isolators work perfectly in my systems.

The best success I had not using an outboard isolator was with the JCAT USB card direct to the R1 which has the Amanero isolation option.
This was very close SQ to the UIP-1/Recovery >SU-1 DDC (LPS>Uptone LPS 1>iFi DC iPurifier) HDMI i2s to the R1.

From memory, I would say the U16 benefits more from the Recovery than the SU-1.
(But the SU-1 is sitting on the shelf as a backup..

 

[rafabro]

(But the SU-1 is sitting on the shelf as a backup..

Same here Thanks

 

[newtophones07]

Hi, I have 2 systems,

The one with the NOS7 DAC is a dual PC setup output via a JPlay V2 USB PCIe card (LPS>Uptone LPS 1> 1.5 A LT3045 box)..
(I would need some time to write down computers details, but they both use LPS's, fanless, JPlay Femto in Control PC/Audio PC software setup),
I use an Intona Industrial USB isolator after the JPlay card and then to a Recovery (powered by a 3A LPS to Uptone LPS-1.2) then to the U16 and then to Audio-GD NOS7 via Wireworld Starlight 7 HDMI 0.5M . This setup works in all PCM up to 384K. (I think the Recovery helps this system due to cleaning up the Intona output)

The other system below is where I just also introduced a Recovery... (I think this system below gets better Recovery benefit due to the PPA v2 USB card is not as refined as the JPlay used above)

Computer details: Gigabyte GA-Z87M-D3H, I5-4670t, NOFAN CR-95c, 2x4 GB Corsair, TeraDak 210 ATX LPS, PPA V2 USB card (LPS with iFi DC iPurifier), 32GB OS SSD (LPS), PS/2 mouse, USB keyboard, on-board video (monitor is powered off during play), 256+500GB SSD's for primary music (all WAV files), all SSD's use PPA red thin SATA cables and suspension blocks, (all SSD's use independent LPS's),

Software: WIN2012 Server Core and AO, Older version HQPlayer* feeding JPlay FEMTO, Total Commander for navigation.

Then: PPA USB card > PPA dual USB 1.8M cable > Singxer UIP-1 USB isolator (2A LPS with iFi DC iPurifier powers UIP-1) > PPA .5m USB > W4S Recovery (3A LPS to Uptone LPS-1 with iFi DC iPurifier2 powers Recovery) > PPA 0.2M USB > Gustard U16 > HDMI (Wireworld Starlight 5.2, 0.3M) i2S > Audio-GD R1.

*This setup requires to upsample everything to 384 Khz for the U16 to work.

I was running this without the Recovery for about a month, so got a good feeling for the SQ presentation... recently adding the Recovery was immediately noticeable.

The DAC's and U16's are powered by an Audio-GD HE350 220v regenerator.
I put Mumetal sheets in critical areas where components/cables needed to be located close together.

This may seem overkill - but my place probably has very dirty mains power, thus the benefit from isolation and reclocking the computers USB output.
In fact, I tried an Uptone ISO Regen - and with that inline my computer would shutdown whenever I clicked any local light switch.. but isolation related problems was not totally unique for the ISORegen, my guess is between 10% to 15% of users could not use the isolation for that device.
The Intona Industrial and Singxer UIP-1 USB isolators work perfectly in my systems.

The best success I had not using an outboard isolator was with the JCAT USB card direct to the R1 which has the Amanero isolation option.
This was very close SQ to the UIP-1/Recovery >SU-1 DDC (LPS>Uptone LPS 1>iFi DC iPurifier) HDMI i2s to the R1.

From memory, I would say the U16 benefits more from the Recovery than the SU-1.
(But the SU-1 is sitting on the shelf as a backup..

Hello motberg
I also have the W4S USB Reclocker (RUR) with a Linear Power Supply feeding the U16 and then to my Audio-gd R8 DAC.
I must say I agreed with you about the good sound of the RUR with LPS feeding the U16. Outstanding!

Isn't the point of the U16 to "clean" up the USB output from a PC? Why the need to daisy chain so many devices in between the source (PC) and the U16 ?

 

[rafabro]

Isn't the point of the U16 to "clean" up the USB output from a PC?

Yes it is, but.. Are you assuming U16 is absolutely perfect device? Seriously?

 

[UsoppNoKami]

The other system
... Gustard U16 > HDMI (Wireworld Starlight 5.2, 0.3M) i2S > Audio-GD R1.

*This setup requires to upsample everything to 384 Khz for the U16 to work.

hi @motberg , jumping in here with a question - I just got a Gustard U16 myself, struggling to make it work well with the R1 via HDMI I2S. It will play some sample rates fine one moment, then all i hear is static on the next track or sample rate test. I'm almost at the point of asking the seller to take it back, as I have another system with the Singxer SU-6... which works flawlessly btw. I currently use the SU-6 to drive my AGD Master-11 Singularity via RJ45 I2S, not impressed with the U16 experience so far.

Did you set Windows audio to 32/384, and force your audio programs like HQ Player to do the upsampling to that specific rate? I have tried HQPlayer but havent committed to buying it, using Roon as the base mainly. I guess Roon can upsample everyhing to 384khz too, but that would rule out using stuff like the native TIDAL app in exclusive mode as the sample rate wouldnt get upsampled.

Any set-up tips that made your gear play nice is appreciated! Would really like to give the R1 a shot at this with the U16. Thanks ...

 

[motberg]

hi @motberg , jumping in here with a question - I just got a Gustard U16 myself, struggling to make it work well with the R1 via HDMI I2S. It will play some sample rates fine one moment, then all i hear is static on the next track or sample rate test. I'm almost at the point of asking the seller to take it back, as I have another system with the Singxer SU-6... which works flawlessly btw. I currently use the SU-6 to drive my AGD Master-11 Singularity via RJ45 I2S, not impressed with the U16 experience so far.

Did you set Windows audio to 32/384, and force your audio programs like HQ Player to do the upsampling to that specific rate? I have tried HQPlayer but havent committed to buying it, using Roon as the base mainly. I guess Roon can upsample everyhing to 384khz too, but that would rule out using stuff like the native TIDAL app in exclusive mode as the sample rate wouldnt get upsampled.

Any set-up tips that made your gear play nice is appreciated! Would really like to give the R1 a shot at this with the U16. Thanks ...

Hi,

For the R1, My guess is you have the latest firmware installed, so check to make sure the DSCSEL button on the front panel is set to indicate PSA on the screen.
There is also another older firmware available called "GU16V1_4_PSA_0db_PS_Audio_I2S.rom" and, from memory, I had much the same experience using both firmwares, most sampling rates do not work or noise.
Another member here posted this "force to 384K PCM" trick a while ago and it has been working rock solid for me and sounds very good with the R1 set to Non-oversampling mode 3.. (better than my SU-1 for my tastes)
I suggest HQPlayer, it works well and offers lots of options and is well supported. (Truth is I augment the SQ of HQPlayer using JPlay, but most HQPlayer users do not.)

In the HQPlayer manual section 2.13 explains the resampling filters available.
The far right column on the filters list is titled "Ratio".
If the filter Ratio is listed as "Any", then the filter will resample to the exact maximum (/Limit) sample rate you have set in the settings panel.
(I have tried all kinds of native rates and they always resample to 384K.)
In the HQPlayer SETTINGS control panel:
under PCM DEFAULTS
I am using poly-sync-mp Filter with MS4 Dither
Sample Rate (/Limit) set to 384
Make sure "Auto Rate Family" is NOT checked.

Maybe someone can chime in if they are using Roon to resample and if the rate can be made to "stick" at a set rate.. (I would not want it un-sticking though and slipping to a non supported rate while at volume.)
I am pretty sure I have read folks using HQPlayer with Roon.. but I have no direct experience.

OK, hope that helps - if you have any specific questions, please let us know.
My guess is it is not only myself interested in a SQ comparison SU-6 to U16

Good Luck!

 

[motberg]

Isn't the point of the U16 to "clean" up the USB output from a PC? Why the need to daisy chain so many devices in between the source (PC) and the U16 ?

Hi,

In my experience and reading the past few years, computer audio - especially via USB - generally offers sound quality performance which is very system specific.
In many cases, isolating the computer from the DAC (or DDC like the U16) offers an improvement in sound quality.
But USB high speed isolation seems tricky and sometimes the end result of the isolation can benefit from additional processing.

Some devices that perform this with varying degrees of effectiveness are:
https://pro.intona.eu/en/support/answer/1233
https://uptoneaudio.com/products/iso-regen
https://ifi-audio.com/products/nano-igalvanic3-0/
https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/singxer-uip-1-isolate-processor-usb2-0-usb-interface.html

These sites offer some basic information and then there are probably tens of thousands of posts on the internet with user feedback.
If you are in the USA, there is a good chance you can get some of these to test and return if not effective, I am pretty sure Uptone offers a 30 day trial and this is a small device, so easy to ship back if desired.

I hope that helps answer your question, have fun with your audio stuff!

 

[Thenewguy007]

hi @motberg , jumping in here with a question - I just got a Gustard U16 myself, struggling to make it work well with the R1 via HDMI I2S. It will play some sample rates fine one moment, then all i hear is static on the next track or sample rate test. I'm almost at the point of asking the seller to take it back, as I have another system with the Singxer SU-6... which works flawlessly btw. I currently use the SU-6 to drive my AGD Master-11 Singularity via RJ45 I2S, not impressed with the U16 experience so far.

Did you try an A/B comparisons with the SU-6 & U16 to see if there are any sonic differences?

 

[terirapt]

I just received the U16. Source is the Aurender X100 and DAC is the Denafrips Terminator.

I am having issue with clicks and pops. It is really bad (not intermittent) with files of 96khz rate and above. 44.1khz and DSD seem fine.

- tried different firmware : same issue
- tried both HDMI I2S and Coax outputs : same issue.

Appreciate your advise.
Thank you.

 

[UsoppNoKami]

I got my unit from Shenzen Audio. Their support staff have promptly responded to all of my emails, our current conclusion is that Gustard knows it has a problem with the HDMI I2S interface, and I would just have to sit tight with a $300 paperweight until the next firmware hopefully fixes things.

In comparison, the Singer SU-6 that I also got from them is excellent. Should have just bought 2 of them for my 2 rigs instead of trying this :/

 

[peteg]

I just received the U16. Source is the Aurender X100 and DAC is the Denafrips Terminator.

I am having issue with clicks and pops. It is really bad (not intermittent) with files of 96khz rate and above. 44.1khz and DSD seem fine.

- tried different firmware : same issue
- tried both HDMI I2S and Coax outputs : same issue.

Appreciate your advise.
Thank you.

My source is LUMIN U1 > Gustard U16 > Terminator, DSD and 96khz down plays fine and sounds good. I set the Lumin to play anything above 96khz to down sample to 96khz and everything is fine but it’s just a band-aid. My modded Singxer SU1 never had a issue but I like the sound of the U16, at some point I might try the new Singxer SU6.

 

[Aurion]

I got my unit from Shenzen Audio. Their support staff have promptly responded to all of my emails, our current conclusion is that Gustard knows it has a problem with the HDMI I2S interface, and I would just have to sit tight with a $300 paperweight until the next firmware hopefully fixes things.

In comparison, the Singer SU-6 that I also got from them is excellent. Should have just bought 2 of them for my 2 rigs instead of trying this :/

I was having similar problems with my Gustard U16 feeding a Holo Audio Cyan dac. In another Head-fi thread it was suggested that the USB drivers were common to Thesycon drivers. Thesycon is apparently the usb software developers for various manufacturers including FiiO and Gustard. In fact these drivers are the 'same' according to the poster. With that in mind I renamed my Holo Cyan drivers, and followed the other suggestion offered by soumya.banjeree, and replaced the Gustard USB drivers on my c:\drive with the modified and renamed files Holo Cyan drivers.

This worked for me and eliminated my having to turn off the Gustard and on again to enable my U16 to initialize my music players, JRiver and Roon.
Soumya's post can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/y6nwf3u4

BTW, my Gustard U16 is plugged into a Kasa Smart WiFi Plug, and the Gustard is AC powered On/Off via it's the Kasa android or ios phone software program

The worst that can happen, I suspect, is that this usb driver substitution may not work for you. In that case you can reinstall the original Gustard USB drivers, or as I did back up the present Gustard drivers to another folder, perhaps renamed 'old.gustard.usb', and if needed just delete the newly renamed folder and files, and replace with the original backup folder files. I thanked Soumya and posted a description of the changes I made here: http://tinyurl.com/y5u2o7mn

 

[UsoppNoKami]

I was having similar problems with my Gustard U16 feeding a Holo Audio Cyan dac. In another Head-fi thread it was suggested that the USB drivers were common to Thesycon drivers. Thesycon is apparently the usb software developers for various manufacturers including FiiO and Gustard. In fact these drivers are the 'same' according to the poster. With that in mind I renamed my Holo Cyan drivers, and followed the other suggestion offered by soumya.banjeree, and replaced the Gustard USB drivers on my c:\drive with the modified and renamed files Holo Cyan drivers.

This worked for me and eliminated my having to turn off the Gustard and on again to enable my U16 to initialize my music players, JRiver and Roon.
Soumya's post can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/y6nwf3u4

BTW, my Gustard U16 is plugged into a Kasa Smart WiFi Plug, and the Gustard is AC powered On/Off via it's the Kasa android or ios phone software program

The worst that can happen, I suspect, is that this usb driver substitution may not work for you. In that case you can reinstall the original Gustard USB drivers, or as I did back up the present Gustard drivers to another folder, perhaps renamed 'old.gustard.usb', and if needed just delete the newly renamed folder and files, and replace with the original backup folder files. I thanked Soumya and posted a description of the changes I made here: http://tinyurl.com/y5u2o7mn

Hi Aurion,

Thanks for the heads up. I tried Soumya's tweak - it's not actually a different driver, just provides the control panel UI for the Gustard drivers so that we can manipulate the buffer size, amongst other settings.

After some additional torture with random static during playback, i have found one single iteration that works - V1.4 PSA I2S firmware, 32 bit / 96khz in windows shared audio and 64 samples buffer. anything else on the U16 with AudioGD R1 with HDMI I2S is liable to reduce the U16 paperweight into a pile of broken bits on the far wall.

I hope Shenzen Audio is right and Gustard's next firmware solves all the problems everyone has been reporting, but i'm not holding my breath...

@peteg the SU-6 is superb, doesnt need any isolation with the power stage design. AGD M-11S sounds better without the iFi Nano Galvanic in the USB part of the chain. How the Cyrstek femtoclocks line up against Accusilicon i don't know, but this DAC is an earlier build that doesnt have HDMI I2S so I can't try the U16 with it. In any case, vs the Amanero USB, SU-6 improved the sound of the M-11S tremendously. Give it a go if you're seriously considering it