Gustard U12 USB Interface 8 Core XMOS chip

Aug 28, 2015 at 11:42 PM Post #2,326 of 3,701
The Audio Breeze is still traveling the long road from China to me - who know's were it is at this point. It's been two weeks!
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271948361421?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 
But uncovered a new contestent - the DXIO Pro3a
 
With the excellent NDK low phase noise clocks as standard.  5 VDC power and low noise power regulator. 
Looks very promising for $168 from DIYinHK.  Currently out of stock.  But for those like myself who only need spdif this may be a killer bargain
Spdif only output:
http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/54-xmos-192khz-high-quality-usb-to-spdif-with-ultralow-noise-1uv-regulator-wauto-power-switch.html




NDK SD is the Red line, Low noise Crystek CCHD957 Blue, OXCO Green
 
Aug 29, 2015 at 12:34 AM Post #2,327 of 3,701
The Audio Breeze is still traveling the long road from China to me - who know's were it is at this point. It's been two weeks!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271948361421?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

But uncovered a new contestent - the DXIO Pro3a

With the excellent NDK low phase noise clocks as standard.  5 VDC power and low noise power regulator. 
Looks very promising for $168 from DIYinHK.  Currently out of stock.  But for those like myself who only need spdif this may be a killer bargain
Spdif only output:
http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/54-xmos-192khz-high-quality-usb-to-spdif-with-ultralow-noise-1uv-regulator-wauto-power-switch.html







NDK SD is the Red line, Low noise Crystek CCHD957 Blue, OXCO Green


Seems this is similar to that Pro3a:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=231221573686&alt=web





Compare others:

Pro3a:




U8:




U12:



Audio Breeze:



HYDRA Z:





I dont see same oscilators(gold pieces)
On the Pro3a types & the Hydra Z.
Looks like something new.

Edit: your posted Pro3a has that low noise regulator,
While the ebay DIY version does not seem to have, but does have more led indicators.
Makes me wonder if there will be a finished version in future.

I like the one you posted better..
It seems latest design.
 
Aug 29, 2015 at 4:11 AM Post #2,328 of 3,701
Till now xp worked perfectly and i did not feel the need to change and spend time reconfiguring everything (i use this pc for audio but also video)
I think seven would run on my hw but i am tempted to upgrade to core i3.
I have to check which Windows version zre supported by my lynx 2 card which i now use for 5.1 reproduction
 
Aug 29, 2015 at 9:04 AM Post #2,329 of 3,701
Till now xp worked perfectly and i did not feel the need to change and spend time reconfiguring everything (i use this pc for audio but also video)
I think seven would run on my hw but i am tempted to upgrade to core i3.
I have to check which Windows version zre supported by my lynx 2 card which i now use for 5.1 reproduction

friends don't let friends use xp
 
I have the previous generation of this 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856102092
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211950
 
Unfortunately a decent wireless backlit keyboard with touchpad will run you between $60 and $100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126361
 
If you can live w/o the backlighing you can save a couple bux with one of these (I go at least 5 of the black ones for the systems I setup)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6S02R41504
 
Monitors have USB ports so if you plug the keyboards receiver into it you'll get better reception than using a USB port on the NUC which should be tucked out of site.
 
Aug 29, 2015 at 9:32 AM Post #2,331 of 3,701
Why is that "all the yggy has to work with"?

Since the yggy has other inputs types available, I am assuming you think that may be the best?

Also,
After reading this thread, am very interested to know how both of these compare:
Yellowtec PUC 2 vs Audiobyte Hydra Z

So far I am reading both these are on an even higher level than the GUSTARD U12, which itself is an incredible value already...
smily_headphones1.gif

So far my exposure to DACs has shown that half of the engineering surrounds the USB transport, where [for now] the XMOS and Amanero chips have earned their top positions.  If a DAC bundles it's own USB implementation that isn't one of those two then I'm suspicious (cutting costs?  not taking computer audio seriously?).  Do it right or don't do it at all (ie: exclude the USB input).  It's sad that I2S is torn between RJ45 and HDMI.  What are manufacturers to do - wait for a winner to emerge, or add inputs for both?  At least we have AES, and that doesn't suck.
 
PUC2 is almost 3x the price of U12, and it doesn't have I2S
Hydra is 6-9x the price of U12
 
Even when I do upgrade past the U12 I will likely not sell it.  Only the U12 has a display to show you your sample rate.  This has been huge for me because my current DAC doesn't have this and there are many scenarios where using Win10+Dirac+JRiver will drop my sample rate to 44 [while playing HD stuff] and that screen is the final word on what I'm sending to the DAC.  Mad props to China.
 
Aug 29, 2015 at 10:34 AM Post #2,332 of 3,701
  It could be an idea thanks. Is this kind of mini computed noisy?
I currently have a very silent case, you hardly can hear the processor fan and cannot here at all the hard drive.

You're hardware is likely on par with the i3 NUC.  There were times I'd take my source with me and these things fit in your pants pocket (audio gatherings or connecting to a hotel room TV).  Mine however is not silent (which is why I tuck it as far away as possible) but I have the 22nm cpu and they're now using 14nm which will translate to way lower fan RPMs.
 
The best audio computer would use a fanless full-atx psu like this one ...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151097
Combine that with an itx or mini-atx asus mobo in a small-ish aluminum case, with a $40+ aftermarket cpu cooler that won't need to exceed 1000rpm.
 
If you have XP or Win7 then you can test to see if are due for a "cleaning" using this...
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
Currently Win8 and Win10 measure badly with this utility and the authors place the blame on their algorithm (but I wouldn't be so sure)
 
If you are happy with your hardware you really should install a new OS (regardless of the results of the above test).
You can leave XP on the current drive and add an SSD that you dual boot via selection in the mobo BIOS.  512mb 2.5" SSDs are now around $200.  I can't recommend Win10 over Win7 whole heartedly because so far the only performance increase I've seen was boot times, and that you get with any new OS because before all the updates and service packs start piling up.  For example my JRiver client instance takes *much* longer to discover/connect to JRiver server instance on my network, and my Dirac Processor takes twice as long to discover my audio playback devices.  In all fairness just about every product was designed for Win7 so these issues may vanish this year with product and OS updates.
 
Aug 29, 2015 at 10:43 AM Post #2,333 of 3,701
Seems this is similar to that Pro3a:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=231221573686&alt=web





Compare others:

Pro3a:




U8:




U12:



Audio Breeze:



HYDRA Z:





I dont see same oscilators(gold pieces)
On the Pro3a types & the Hydra Z.
Looks like something new.

Edit: your posted Pro3a has that low noise regulator,
While the ebay DIY version does not seem to have, but does have more led indicators.
Makes me wonder if there will be a finished version in future.

I like the one you posted better..
It seems latest design.


Ok so to bring you up to speed - this was covered some 50-60 pages ago. There are different Crystal clocks for the retiming of the audio signal.  The gold colored ones and really the relabeled silver ones in the Gustard - are OEM rebrands of the JYEC TXCO (temperture controlled crystal osc).  These are better then the old standard XO Fox type clocks.  The best TXCO clock (IMO) is made by Crystek and they have various models - the Hydra and Tanly use the CCHD-957.  Very close and in some ways better clocks from Japan are produced by NDK with again various models the NZ2520SD being the best.  Modders like Alex have modded the U12 and MX-U8 using these NDK clocks, as posted previously here (and see Alex's Melidous MX-U8 Thread).
 
These clocks for audio purposes are measured in many ways - one of the most common specs given is for 'Phase Noise'.  Back many, many pages I gave the links to some engineering white papers discussing the various types of digital jitter and noises.  It also goes into the technical limits of test equipment to measure phase noise at low frequencies.  Another is freq stability (the TXCO beat the older XO here) with var in the +/- 1ppm range (excellent!)
http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/Clock-Division-WP.pdf
 
 
The clocks in the U12, MX-U8 and the Audio Breeze are all the JYEC type OEM with phase noise at
1kHz of -125dB and 10kHz -128dB
 
The NDK NZ2520SD TXCO
1kHz -153dB and at 10kHz -158dB

The Crystek CCHD957 (45.1584Mhz):
1kHz -153dB and at 10kHz -163dB
 

Now remember dB is a log function - so each -3dB is 10x better.  So we are talking orders of magnitude better phase noise with these better clocks.
 
 
 
Now the DIYinHK board you show is a different one.
That board is for i2s output and is designed to piggyback off a DACs 3.3VDC ps.  The DIXO Pro 3a is spdif only - both coax and optical.  It's a plug and go set-up with the ultra low noise regulator on board.
 
It'll take a 5VDC feed - and I have had huge success feeding my Hydra Z with this Li Ion 16,000mHa battery (even the dynamics improved - bass added another 1/2 octave lower!).  So like the 5VD fed Hydra the DXIO would be able to use this battery as well.  I do have two different TeraDak linear power supplies coming - one with an R-core transformer and very heavy power filtering and linear regulation.  To use in comparison.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331547668930?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (2amps - 3.6 amps peak!  This sucker has juice)  $24 - not bad.
 
Here are the specs for the DIXO Pro 3a
  Feature:
1) Newest XMOS chip and uses 48MHz oscillator to asynchronous reclock usb audio data to SPDIF line, old XMOS uses only 13Mhz oscillator, over 4x better jitter rejection theoretically.
2) C0G AC coupling capacitor (All SPDIF output equipment requires AC coupling capacitor to avoid the isolated transformer saturated by DC bias component, if no grey color(C0G) capacitor is found in the PCB, that SPDIF equipment can be considered as low end)
3) Ultra low phase noise NDK NZ2520SD oscillator, thin film resistor and Murata isolated transformer (Be care the very common China made Pulse transformer in many 192khz SPDIF equipment is only capable of maximum 7Mbps(i.e. 96khz) according to the official datasheet.) Components are sourced from NDK and digikey directly (guarantee no fake product from China)
4) 1.0uVrms Ultralow noise linear power regulator (use of decade old LM317/1117 regulator is kidding for audiophile)
5) Solid ground plane (a must for high speed digital circuit)
6) No Via in active circuit (via inductance always create jitter problem)
7) Compact size 25mmx 59mm x 63mm
8) PCB can be USB powered or auto switch to external power 5-6V when connected(Please notes over-voltage can damage the component immediately, any modification void item warranty) External power socket has LED shows which power supply is in use. The external power socket uses the most common plugs size 5.5 mm (0.22 in) in outside diameter.

One note:
The NDK ad on DIYinHK incorrectly states the NDK has "For easier comparsion(lower is better), we overlay the two phase noise graph at the same scale, under 25khz(human listenable range) nz2520sd(red line) is better, over 25khz(human unlistenable range) crystek 957 is better."
 
Unfortunately it seems these 'engineers' can't read a log scale.  The crossover in phase noise is at 2500Hz not 25000Hz.  2500Hz is definitely IN the human range of hearing. Ugg!
 
Aug 29, 2015 at 5:18 PM Post #2,335 of 3,701
Seems this is similar to that Pro3a:



[url=http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/1440506/]




Compare others:


Pro3a:






U8:






U12:





Audio Breeze:





HYDRA Z:







I dont see same oscilators(gold pieces)

On the Pro3a types



Ok so to bring you up to speed - this was covered some 50-60 pages ago. There are different Crystal clocks for the retiming of the audio signal.  The gold colored ones and really the relabeled silver ones in the Gustard - are OEM rebrands of the JYEC TXCO (temperture controlled crystal osc).  These are better then the old standard XO Fox type clocks.  The best TXCO clock (IMO) is made by Crystek and they have various models - the Hydra and Tanly use the CCHD-957.  Very close and in some ways better clocks from Japan are produced by NDK with again various models the NZ2520SD being the best.  Modders like Alex have modded the U12 and MX-U8 using these NDK clocks, as posted previously here (and see Alex's Melidous MX-U8 Thread).

These clocks for audio purposes are measured in many ways - one of the most common specs given is for 'Phase Noise'.  Back many, many pages I gave the links to some engineering white papers discussing the various types of digital jitter and noises.  It also goes into the technical limits of test equipment to measure phase noise at low frequencies.  Another is freq stability (the TXCO beat the older XO here) with var in the +/- 1ppm range (excellent!)
http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/Clock-Division-WP.pdf


The clocks in the U12, MX-U8 and the Audio Breeze are all the JYEC type OEM with phase noise at
1kHz of -125dB and 10kHz -128dB

The NDK NZ2520SD TXCO
1kHz -153dB and at 10kHz -158dB


The Crystek CCHD957 (45.1584Mhz):
1kHz -153dB and at 10kHz -163dB



Now remember dB is a log function - so each -3dB is 10x better.  So we are talking orders of magnitude better phase noise with these better clocks.



Now the DIYinHK board you show is a different one.
That board is for i2s output and is designed to piggyback off a DACs 3.3VDC ps.  The DIXO Pro 3a is spdif only - both coax and optical.  It's a plug and go set-up with the ultra low noise regulator on board.

It'll take a 5VDC feed - and I have had huge success feeding my Hydra Z with this Li Ion 16,000mHa battery (even the dynamics improved - bass added another 1/2 octave lower!).  So like the 5VD fed Hydra the DXIO would be able to use this battery as well.  I do have two different TeraDak linear power supplies coming - one with an R-core transformer and very heavy power filtering and linear regulation.  To use in comparison.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331547668930?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (2amps - 3.6 amps peak!  This sucker has juice)  $24 - not bad.

Here are the specs for the DIXO Pro 3a
 
Feature:


1) Newest XMOS chip and uses 48MHz oscillator to asynchronous reclock usb audio data to SPDIF line, old XMOS uses only 13Mhz oscillator, over 4x better jitter rejection theoretically.


2) C0G AC coupling capacitor (All SPDIF output equipment requires AC coupling capacitor to avoid the isolated transformer saturated by DC bias component, if no grey color(C0G) capacitor is found in the PCB, that SPDIF equipment can be considered as low end)


3) Ultra low phase noise NDK NZ2520SD oscillator, thin film resistor and Murata isolated transformer (Be care the very common China made Pulse transformer in many 192khz SPDIF equipment is only capable of maximum 7Mbps(i.e. 96khz) according to the official datasheet.) Components are sourced from NDK and digikey directly (guarantee no fake product from China)


4) 1.0uVrms Ultralow noise linear power regulator (use of decade old LM317/1117 regulator is kidding for audiophile)


5) Solid ground plane (a must for high speed digital circuit)


6) No Via in active circuit (via inductance always create jitter problem)


7) Compact size 25mmx 59mm x 63mm


8) PCB can be USB powered or auto switch to external power 5-6V when connected(Please notes over-voltage can damage the component immediately, any modification void item warranty) External power socket has LED shows which power supply is in use. The external power socket uses the most common plugs size 5.5 mm (0.22 in) in outside diameter.

One note:
The NDK ad on DIYinHK incorrectly states the NDK has "For easier comparsion(
lower is better
), we overlay the two phase noise graph at the same scale, under 25khz(human listenable range) nz2520sd(red line) is better, over 25khz(human unlistenable range) crystek 957 is better."



 


Unfortunately it seems these 'engineers' can't read a log scale.  The crossover in phase noise is at 2500Hz not 25000Hz.  2500Hz is definitely IN the human range of hearing. Ugg!

Thank you so much for "bringing me up to speed" with this excellent post...
The DIXO Pro 3 I will try to get to test l & report back if any improvement with it.
:)
 
Aug 30, 2015 at 11:22 AM Post #2,337 of 3,701
Anyone know about this Fancy unit:








On eBay:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=131496019200&alt=web
 
Aug 30, 2015 at 7:03 PM Post #2,339 of 3,701
Thanks for quick observation.
Question, do you know which type clocks used in the PUC2?
I am assuming it has TXCO or XO considering its model age being few years old.
Edit:
I do realize the design also play important role and probabaly why it is also well regarded unit.
 

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