[ginetto61]

Hi   can  anyone recommend a effective mains filter to be used with the Gustard ?
 
I see no mains RF filter in the U12 and that toroidal is an open door for any high Hz noise coming from the mains.
 

 
However ... this below is one of the best usb to spdif converter around ...
look at its power supply ... it has both a filter and a EI transformer.
 
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/8343/alphausb1.jpg
 
 

 

 
Very very simple and nevertheless, i guess, extremely effective.
And this is one of the very beast converter around.  A reference for all.
I have an opinion.
I see people adding uF ... this is good of course.
But this does nothing about the high Hz noise in the mains ... nothing.
And this noise, from what i have learned, is extremely negative for digital devices ... extremely.
A very good filtering of this high freq noise coming from the mains is mandatory for good performance.
This is a simple but very effective solution.
bye,  gino

 

[abartels]

 

  @Alex thank you for your advice. I will put bigger values back in and let them burn in. I was aware of this burn-in effect but I was just too impatient to wait for a whole week before U12 could sound good again. The effect of replacing original caps with 2200uf Nichicon 14 mohm was instant and immediate. Without a single minute of burn-in, I heard breathtaking imaging. I was expecting the same level of performance from the Pana's... I will order some 4700 uf Nichicon 11 mohm to see if there is a difference between the Nichicon and Pana's.
 
Cheers

 
pakultra

The Panasonic FCs are an old design and quite laid back. They were quite popular in taming the sound of the delta-sigma DACs in CD Players 10-15 years ago.
 
The present day equivalent to the low impedance Nichicons are the Panasonic FMs. The Panasonic FRs are even lower impedance. They are the equivalents of the Nichicon HE and HW respectively.
 
Agree with abartels, on digital stuff, new caps in my mods take 24-48 hours of continuous operation to settle down.

 
@b0bb Thanks. That cleared things up. My 2200 uf caps are Nichicon HW. I will order more Nichicon HW to try.
 
 
 
I will try those Nichicon HW's too, thanks for pointing me in the right direction!
 
 
Cheers 

 
Alex

 

[ginetto61]

Hi i have a question.
USB isolation issue aside, would it be beneficial to provide a low noise power supply to this unit with an external high quality linear power supply ?
Taking out the internal transformer and leave only low ESR high uF inside ?
This is an example ...

 
I have the feeling that the power supply quality is impacting a lot the performance of this very nice unit.
I have seen this done with batteries but i see this a little too extreme.
I have instead a very good lab supply at hand that can serve me well.
What do you think ? is an external power supply a silly idea ?
 
in general to put a transformer in a very small box with all the sensitive circuits very close ... i am perplexed ...
just look at computers  and what kind of mess they are noise wise ...
Thanks again,  gino

 

[Sonic Defender]

I'm way out of my comfort zone here so some help is appreciated. I'm trying to decide whether or not the ifi iUSB can actually help me or not when used with the NAD M51. It sounds like it, and most usb power conditioners are really only needed if the DAC uses the power from the computer to run the USB chip. If that is correct, and the M51 uses it's own internal PS then one would expect it to be cleaner than the walwart that the ifi uses. Is this a fair assumption, or am I missing things? Cheers. By the way, this question is open to suggestions so if you know of a usb power conditioner you feel would benefit the M51 by all means I'm open to suggestions.

 

[hgpsemaj]

Please note, MX-U8 is available on DIY kits,
 
 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.20141002.6.pr9K3Q&scm=1007.10009.6098.i43201730381&id=45265176118&pvid=216f8303-4d78-4d17-a481-fe3c3a4e5407

 

[ginetto61]

  I'm way out of my comfort zone here so some help is appreciated. I'm trying to decide whether or not the ifi iUSB can actually help me or not when used with the NAD M51.
It sounds like it, and most usb power conditioners are really only needed if the DAC uses the power from the computer to run the USB chip.
If that is correct, and the M51 uses it's own internal PS then one would expect it to be cleaner than the walwart that the ifi uses. Is this a fair assumption, or am I missing things?
Cheers. By the way, this question is open to suggestions so if you know of a usb power conditioner you feel would benefit the M51 by all means I'm open to suggestions.

 
Hi ! you should understand if your dac usb is electrically isolated from the pc
I am not an expert  you could open  a cheap usb cable and cut shield, read an black wires and leave connected only the data wires (i.e. white and green).
 
 

 
If the M51 works fine it means that is electrically isolate from the computer.
If it is not personally i would definitely try a usb power supply.
 
A Teradak U9 is a cheap but good entry level example.
 
Another option I have read great things about from a man i respect highly is this unit here ... very very good.
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/schiit_wyrd-580x326.png
I am thinking seriously to buy one.
 
But also the unit from iFi is very good indeed
 
Next step would be to try a very good usb to AES/EBU interface.  I read the advice of the extremely talented designer of Berkeley Audio
recommending this type of balanced digital connection over spdif, very commonly used in pro units less in audiophile units.
But i see that your very nice M51 has it. So i would be very tempted to use it.
I do not have recommendation for this ... still looking for also myself.
Actually i have .. what is considered the very best in the world ... the Berkeley Audio unit ...
problem is the price ... i think 2000 USD ... two times the value of all my system ...
Let's say that i am looking for the " the Berkeley for the chep guy " ...
I have two dacs using this connection ... actually 3:  Apogee Rosetta 200, Apogee MiniDac and Benchmark dac1.
The Gustard U12, with some different design solution could be the answer.
Just to say it does not provide electrical isolation

 ... a must widely agreed on.

This did not prevent me to buy both the older U10 and then the newer U12 

 
Good luck !
gino

 

[pakultra]

  I'm way out of my comfort zone here so some help is appreciated. I'm trying to decide whether or not the ifi iUSB can actually help me or not when used with the NAD M51. It sounds like it, and most usb power conditioners are really only needed if the DAC uses the power from the computer to run the USB chip. If that is correct, and the M51 uses it's own internal PS then one would expect it to be cleaner than the walwart that the ifi uses. Is this a fair assumption, or am I missing things? Cheers. By the way, this question is open to suggestions so if you know of a usb power conditioner you feel would benefit the M51 by all means I'm open to suggestions.

@ sonic defender, I'd suggest that you tape your USB positive pin to cut USB Vcc supply, if your M51 works flawlessly after the USB power is disconnected, you won't benefit from any usb power conditioner, because your M51 is isolated from it; If your computer stops seeing M51, then a good usb power will help you. My NAD D 1050 doesn't need any usb power connection. Your M51 will most probably won't need it either.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Thanks Gino and pakultra, I have e-mailed NAD support so hopefully they reply soon. I suspect I would benefit more from the U12. I'll post once NAD confirms what we all suspect. On that front, does anybody have a link for a decent AES cable I could get with the U12? Cheers.

 

[ginetto61]

  Thanks Gino and pakultra, I have e-mailed NAD support so hopefully they reply soon. I suspect I would benefit more from the U12. I'll post once NAD confirms what we all suspect.
On that front, does anybody have a link for a decent AES cable I could get with the U12? Cheers.

Hi that is the right thing to do in any case,  It is a very good unit from what i have read.
I have also read here somewhere that another unit from Nad (i think their digital amp) has indeed an isolated usb input.
So i assume that also the M51 that is a TOTL unit has this kind of feature.
 
However, regarding the U12 i think that also that unit should be used with a usb power supply.  The usb input is not isolated sadly.
This is a flaw in its design already discussed here in the thread.
I tried both ways, with the Teradak usb power supply and without it,  and i prefer the sound with the usb power supply in place.
I like the idea to compare the difference in sound to arts.
With a so so system you get a painting.
With a good system you get a bas-relief.
With an exceptional system you get a sculpture !
For me it is all about virtual soundstage. About the ability of a system to give back a huge soundstage with everything in place.
You get a recording where the soundstage has been captured particularly well.
Then you play it on the system and listen ... if you start to "see" also the performers you have an exceptional system.
 
Also a RF filter on the mains power input of the U12 would have been nice.
I see many top dacs with a mains filter.  To get some ideas peeping inside the best in class units can teach a lot indeed.
The digital part is tricky, but the power supply less.
The actual best in class of usb to spdif converters in the world is the Berkeley Audio converter.  A wonderful unit.
It is said to transform even the poorest pc in an exceptional digital source.
I believe this completely.
 
Regarding the AES cable i use a Sommercable Binary that is cheap and i think good.
But i think that any cable from known pro brands could work fine like Mogami, Gotham, Canare, Belden, etc.
You can look on ebay for some products.
Good luck !
gino

 

[genclaymore]

  Thanks Gino and pakultra, I have e-mailed NAD support so hopefully they reply soon. I suspect I would benefit more from the U12. I'll post once NAD confirms what we all suspect. On that front, does anybody have a link for a decent AES cable I could get with the U12? Cheers.

Monoprice sells some and they do ship outside the usa.

 

[abartels]

Hi guys,
 
Just a short follow-up on SQ stock MX-U8 in comparisson with modded U12:
 
Until now U12 still holds first place, no listening fatigue, more black around voices, instruments and all sorts of sounds,
in comparisson MX-U8 sounds more up-front, not the deep soundstage I'm used too with U12.
 
Just 2 days to go to be sure!
 
 
First "inbetween" conclusion:
 
Stock MX-U8 sounds a lot better than stock U12.
 
 
 
We will see if U12 still can hold first place if MX-U8 is modded the same way I did with U12.
 
 
To be continued,,,,,,
 

 

[Jamiee]

What driver is everyone using with their MX-U8?
 
I've been trying to make it work with the Oppo v2.24 driver unsuccessfully for an hour or so now.
Modified the VID & PID values at which point the drivers successfully install - However device manager shows an error for the U8
"This device cannot start. (Code 10)
Indicates two revision levels are incompatible"
 
Same driver works perfectly fine with my Stello U3 and the Gustard U12 (after being modded).

 

[winxp]

  What driver is everyone using with their MX-U8?
 
I've been trying to make it work with the Oppo v2.24 driver unsuccessfully for an hour or so now.
Modified the VID & PID values at which point the drivers successfully install - However device manager shows an error for the U8
"This device cannot start. (Code 10)
Indicates two revision levels are incompatible"
 
Same driver works perfectly fine with my Stello U3 and the Gustard U12 (after being modded).

My MX-U8 works with Oppo V2.24 successfully.
 
In order to install Oppo xmos driver, you should do an

"advanced boot"​

.
 
Try the following steps:
(Note. If you use AudiophileOptimizer, you should do a full reset start before driver install.
            Type “st -r” in the command prompt and press Enter.)
 
1. Run ==> "shutdown /r /o"
 
2. Choose an option==> Select "Troubleshoot"
 
3. Advanced options==> Select "startup Settings"
 
4. Startup Settings==> Select "7) Disable driver signature enforcement"
 
5. Install Oppo xmos driver with MX-U8 connected.
 
Good luck.

 

[Jamiee]

Thanks winxp,
I had already tried with driver signature turned off, so that doesn't seem to be the problem.
 
Interestingly enough I was able to install the WaveIO v2.23 driver with the MX-U8 without issue after modding it with the proper device ID's
Worth noting that I have the latest revision of the MX-U8 (one with the gold footers).  It just arrived this morning.
 
OS = Win 8.1 w/ JPlay.

 

[stuartmc]

Just a heads up gang. The Tanly Audio USB-DDC has landed. It's undergoing serious burn in for 48 hours and then the real fun and comparisons will begin.

I had to open her up right off and switch from 220v to 110v per Tam's instructions. Build quality looks superb and she fired up without a hitch. I can already tell this will be a real contender - stone cold out of the box it sounds very promising.