[Walderstorn]

If any1 from Europe wants to buy a Gustard stock to avoid customs fees give me a holla had a lot of fun with them but they dont work with my Hd800 as good as they did with my HD600.

 

[ZekeAdebayo]

I'm asking this question because I'm curious to get the answer. I have two headphones amps, the Magni 2 Uber and the Gustard H10 both were used to drive my Hifiman HE-560
 
Magni 2 Uber (High Gain Mode)
 
 
Gustard H10 (stock, and on the +6 Gain mode)
 
What I did notice was that although the Uber has a lower wattage reading it still was louder at the same knob level as the Gustard. There was a higher increase in volume per turn on the Uber than the H10 (both have smooth turn dials). I was curious as to why? My knowledge of headphone amplification is that a higher wattage for a more demanding headphone meant that it would be more likely to perform to the best of its abilities (in short not sound underpowered in any way) but I also though that the increase in wattage would also mean a louder volume per turn in comparison to a lower wattage amp and to me that wasn't the case. 
 
I used the +6 gain mode instead of the +12 because I was advised to do so, it was a bit odd to me because I was told that the more juice a planar is given the better it performs (obviously there's a limit to how high you can go as well). 
 
Lastly the H10 and X12 combo tend to have a little less treble up top in comparison to the Uber stack in a ways favoring a more smoother sound, is this smoothed out treble lost detail?

 

[olek]

Sorry if I am going to sound harsh but consumer's misconception that if equipment deliver louder volume with smaller turn of volume knob it must be more powerful hurt this industry.
Amp design can use linear potentiometer (bad idea), or logarithmic one (typical), and their rate of resistance change per 1 extra degree of turn can be different, and circuit can be designed in different way to allow different rate of volume increase. Ideally, one wants to have whole available '10 hours' volume span to be able to adjust volume in even way ('even' to human hearing which is logarithmic in nature), because that gives most precision in volume adjustments. Because eventually manufacturers got tired of explaining consumers that their gear is not broken if they needed to turn volume above 12 o'clock, most started to produce amplifiers where most of the volume change is happening between 8am and 1pm, and above that, volume changes a little.That is undoubtedly bad user experience, but paradoxically, that is experience that generated least amount of trouble for manufacturers.
 
In other words, H10 can deliver less volume for given potentiometer position compared to Magni, and that is OK, it ain't broken.
 
As for your comment on treble quantity, no surprise here, Schiit is known for relatively bright sound, and H10 is known for a very relaxed, "tube-like" sound, at least in its stock form.
 
And for gain, use whatever sounds and feels best for you, and ignore what others say, including what I wrote here

Trust your own ears, and do not let anybody else tell you what is right.

 

[ZekeAdebayo]

  Sorry if I am going to sound harsh but consumer's misconception that if equipment deliver louder volume with smaller turn of volume knob it must be more powerful hurt this industry.
Amp design can use linear potentiometer (bad idea), or logarithmic one (typical), and their rate of resistance change per 1 extra degree of turn can be different, and circuit can be designed in different way to allow different rate of volume increase. Ideally, one wants to have whole available '10 hours' volume span to be able to adjust volume in even way ('even' to human hearing which is logarithmic in nature), because that gives most precision in volume adjustments. Because eventually manufacturers got tired of explaining consumers that their gear is not broken if they needed to turn volume above 12 o'clock, most started to produce amplifiers where most of the volume change is happening between 8am and 1pm, and above that, volume changes a little.That is undoubtedly bad user experience, but paradoxically, that is experience that generated least amount of trouble for manufacturers.
 
In other words, H10 can deliver less volume for given potentiometer position compared to Magni, and that is OK, it ain't broken.
 
As for your comment on treble quantity, no surprise here, Schiit is known for relatively bright sound, and H10 is known for a very relaxed, "tube-like" sound, at least in its stock form.
 
And for gain, use whatever sounds and feels best for you, and ignore what others say, including what I wrote here

Trust your own ears, and do not let anybody else tell you what is right.

It wasn't harsh at all sir. You did a great job explaining, I was just curious and have gotten my question answered. I prefer to be informed than to remain ignorant.

 

[Rob Allan]

This forum is such a wonderful but dangerous place, just gives you major GAS.  In the last six months been getting so wrapped up in Head-Fi gear lurking around here and loving it a middle age guy having such a midlife tune crisis.  
 
My go-to head wear at present is AKG 702 Annies, and more recently replaced a PM3 with a new LCD 2f and Shure 535 on the go.  So far I have only experienced these phones through portable AMP/DAC's - HA-2, Dragonfly Red(phone and pc) and a DIY raspberry PI with an header IQAudio Dac.  Mixture of Tidal HIFI and owned lossless content.
 
Volume isn't a problem for me in terms of drive even on the LCD they sound great to me on present gear, but constantly read even with the low ohm rating that both the LCD and the Annies have, they really shine pushing more volts/watts.
 
Think I have reached the point where I feel the need experience this for myself and see how much gain there is to be had pushing more go go juice.
 
Currently on page 130 of this thread and with every moment of reading the restraint to not just pull the trigger on the H10 grows this could be my next step, its been an expensive month I am not RockaFella but you only live once... I will be lucky to resist the urge much longer.
 
Back to 130 I go, see you soon hopefully  
 
Temptation is strong so strong

 

[willowbrook]

  This forum is such a wonderful but dangerous place, just gives you major GAS.  In the last six months been getting so wrapped up in Head-Fi gear lurking around here and loving it a middle age guy having such a midlife tune crisis.  
 
My go-to head wear at present is AKG 702 Annies, and more recently replaced a PM3 with a new LCD 2f and Shure 535 on the go.  So far I have only experienced these phones through portable AMP/DAC's - HA-2, Dragonfly Red(phone and pc) and a DIY raspberry PI with an header IQAudio Dac.  Mixture of Tidal HIFI and owned lossless content.
 
Volume isn't a problem for me in terms of drive even on the LCD they sound great to me on present gear, but constantly read even with the low ohm rating that both the LCD and the Annies have, they really shine pushing more volts/watts.
 
Think I have reached the point where I feel the need experience this for myself and see how much gain there is to be had pushing more go go juice.
 
Currently on page 130 of this thread and with every moment of reading the restraint to not just pull the trigger on the H10 grows this could be my next step, its been an expensive month I am not RockaFella but you only live once... I will be lucky to resist the urge much longer.
 
Back to 130 I go, see you soon hopefully  
 
Temptation is strong so strong

Especially since Burson has released their new cheaper hybrid version of V5, the V5i, it is really harder to resist temptation. Dat design of those op-amps...amazing.

 

[Rob Allan]

Especially since Burson has released their new cheaper hybrid version of V5, the V5i, it is really harder to resist temptation. Dat design of those op-amps...amazing.

Not quite got up to op-amp rolling yet in this thread did see a few melting posts having a sneak peek before hitting the thread up from the beginning

I like the idea though a nice option to have.

 

[Rob Allan]

Quick question not answered yet at the point of thread I am upto. With burn in, in mind one shot deal? or is there a feeling of having to burn in each gain stage/setting. Maybe a daft question.

 

[MLegend]

Anyone looking for an H10 with burson V5s? Mine is still for sale.

 

[Rob Allan]

Got to page 170 yesterday afternoon and just couldn't resist anymore broke down and took the plunge an hour later H10 was despatched and now according the missus a rather large box is sat at home waiting for me.

Bought from a true gent on eBay wish all eBay purchases were like that. Looked to be a stock minter previous owner/gent had around 50hours running in on HD800s on +12.

Patience is not a virtue of mine. Roll on home time

 

[willowbrook]

Got to page 170 yesterday afternoon and just couldn't resist anymore broke down and took the plunge an hour later H10 was despatched and now according the missus a rather large box is sat at home waiting for me.

Bought from a true gent on eBay wish all eBay purchases were like that. Looked to be a stock minter previous owner/gent had around 50hours running in on HD800s on +12.

Patience is not a virtue of mine. Roll on home time

Might be disappointed with stock or not depending on what you plug in and your expectations, but I can assure you that op amps will make a difference if you choose to talor/improve the sound. ^^

 

[Rob Allan]

Might be disappointed with stock or not depending on what you plug in and your expectations, but I can assure you that op amps will make a difference if you choose to talor/improve the sound. ^^

Got fingers and toes crossed been jotting down the wealth of info in this thread including a bit amp rolling info all much appreciated I might add. Will be LCD 2f first as it seems to have come up allot as a good pairing. DAC wise without amping an amp my choices are fairly limited no doubt be a IQaudio+ as a first spin. Look forward to it thanks again for all the vast info here

 

[ZekeAdebayo]

  Might be disappointed with stock or not depending on what you plug in and your expectations, but I can assure you that op amps will make a difference if you choose to talor/improve the sound. ^^

How did the OP amp mod work out for you? I remember you stating a while back that the stock H10 and 560 combo disappointed you. Any info is really appreciated. 

 

[mandrake50]

  It wasn't harsh at all sir. You did a great job explaining, I was just curious and have gotten my question answered. I prefer to be informed than to remain ignorant.

There is another aspect to consider as well. The volume taper is a definite factor but the input sensitivity  and match with the output of the source also make a big difference. Unfortunately, in headphone amps these specs are seldom mentioned.
Sometime the input impedance is listed, but not regularly. If one amp requires 2 volts of drive for rated output at full volume and another only requires 1 volt or 1.5 volts, the position of the volume knob to match levels will be quite different. Of course gain settings also play a part. The 6 DB gain on the H10 is relative to 0 gain... on the H10 (only  not universally)meaning the setting that will yield full output at the rated sensitivity. Comparing that gain level with another amps gain set on "high" and not knowing the amount of gain nor the baseline sensitivity makes the volume knob position comparison even more meaningless.
The true criteria to be concerned about is whether you can achieve your desired SPL without the amp producing objectionable levels of distortion. If you get this level, don't even worry even a little bit about where the volume knob is set.

 

[zilch0md]

 
There is another aspect to consider as well. The volume taper is a definite factor but the input sensitivity  and match with the output of the source also make a big difference. Unfortunately, in headphone amps these specs are seldom mentioned.
Sometime the input impedance is listed, but not regularly. If one amp requires 2 volts of drive for rated output at full volume and another only requires 1 volt or 1.5 volts, the position of the volume knob to match levels will be quite different. Of course gain settings also play a part. The 6 DB gain on the H10 is relative to 0 gain... on the H10 (only  not universally)meaning the setting that will yield full output at the rated sensitivity. Comparing that gain level with another amps gain set on "high" and not knowing the amount of gain nor the baseline sensitivity makes the volume knob position comparison even more meaningless.
The true criteria to be concerned about is whether you can achieve your desired SPL without the amp producing objectionable levels of distortion. If you get this level, don't even worry even a little bit about where the volume knob is set.

 
Except perhaps the possibility that this might be achieved at more than one gain setting?  In which case a lesser gain setting might be preferable for reducing the noise floor?