GUSTARD H10 High-current Discrete Class A output Stage Headphone Amplifier

[freak]

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gustard-h10

 

[christian u]

  It  a wonderful recording indeed but the video is not from the actual recording session but from the Dutch Jazz TV.
The Thousand Shades of Blue download is recorded in front of a live audience as you can hear here;
 
And the sound is even better but you are probably right that this is more or less how they record;

 
 

  I like the sound of the H10 so well with the Hifiman HE-400i that I couldn't resist the urge to score the HE-560 at a nice price from a fellow head-fier.  I'll probably pass along my HE-400i at an equally nice price. They will need to go to a good home with someone who will appreciate my very careful grill and pad modifications.
 
I had another interesting listening session with Gustard X12 last night.  I was doing A- B comparisons to the Aune S16 and I was quite frustrated that with additional breakin, the X12 hadn't opened up that last bit that I thought it would.  Every time I switched to the S16, I was hearing a more relaxed, natural, life-like sound. This was all about soundstage and the ambience of the recording venue, because that is what I was focusing on and was the most apparent difference between the two. The Gustard was still sounding a little too forward, with somewhat flattened images and a treble that wasn't harsh, but did have a slightly overemphasized leading edge on plucked notes.  I left it alone and on continuous play for a few more hours and when I returned, I decided switch up the setup. For A-B comparisons I had the Gustard DAC sitting ontop of the H10 and my Rega Apollo-R transport perched ontop of the X12. The Gustard DAC was essentially sandwiched between two other components. The Aune S16 was sitting on the side, all by itself, with no other components above or below.  I now put the X12 by itself and the S16 went into the stack sandwich.  
 
Now back to the A-B comparison. I was using a very high resolution recording,  Carmen Gomes, Thousand Shades of Blue, Live Studio 11 recordings by Sound Liaison.  Wonderful ambient space, great vocal with hollow body electic guitar, upright bass and a cajon beat drum. Here is video of the actual recording session:   http://youtu.be/eXypZsHO4XQ
Now this is uber cool because you can see the set up in the studio to confirm what you're hearing and imagining on your headphones.  This time the difference between the two DACs was greatly diminshed. So much so that it made me really wonder what was happening to the DACs when sandwiched like that. I was also cognizant of the fact that I might just have hit the Jeckyl and Hyde point of the X12's breakin.  The H10 had done a similar mind bending transformation on me, so why should I be surprised if the X12 did the same.  I wasn't going to keep switching around the setup to confirm which of the two was really causing the audible changes, I was just happy and relieved to hear the X12 sounding so much better.
 
After more back and forth time with different music, I came to the conclusion that the little extra air and spatiousness of the S16 was really frequency response related. The S16 has a thinner lower midrange and more resticted bass than does the X12.  This makes the treble, where most of the ambient cues hang out, more noticeable in comparison. It wasn't retrieving any more detail, its just that those details were given something of a spotlight.   When I played tracks with deep and/or heavy bass, there was no question that the X12 had better control. It now even had superior sub-bass, which it lacked earlier in the breakin process.  The X12 has a richer midrange, which gives vocalists more chest register and to my ears that sounds more natural.  I am anxious to do this same comparison with the HE-560. From what I have been reading, it is less midrange dominant than the 400i, has more linear bass and a wider stage. If this is true, it should match perfectly with the X12 and I may like this combination much better than the Aune S16 with the 400i.

 very careful grill and pad modifications.

Does that really make an audible difference? Pad i understand but the grill?

 

[manishex]

With the he-400i removing the grills improves horizontal soundstage, makes treble smoother and bass more extended

 

[stuartmc]

With the he-400i removing the grills improves horizontal soundstage, makes treble smoother and bass more extended

Yup, I did the same with my HE-560 and the more open grill really helped. 

 

[swannie007]

Hello Captain, I trust this missive finds you in good health and spirits. Do tell, what did you replace the grills on your 560's with? This sounds like an interesting mod for me to attempt as I would appreciate any improvement that I could make to my 400i's. Also, how goes the listening tests with the Burson's? 

 

[stuartmc]

OK 'mates. I've completed my testing with the Bursons and have had the chance to go back and forth a few times between the Bursons and the 797BRZ/ AD823 combo. I'm pretty confident in what my ears tell me with my particular setup. As you will recall, my "gestalt" experience with both sets of Burson op-amps installed (V5S and V5D) was VERY favorable. What I had said before was:   the words that first came to mind were "natural," "holistic, ""holographic" with effortless extension at the frequency extremes and "weight" - a superb bass floor and real meat on the midrange bones.  Now that I have listened to my favorite tracks for  analyzing soundstage, dynamics, treble, midrange and bass, I can state rather empatically that my gestalt impressions were spot on.    

Let me take care of a little housekeeping first and tell you that just like with my other swabbing forays, I found that the final gain stage with the single op-amps made the more pronounced improvements.  If you are on a tight budget, I would recommend getting the V5S's first. They are less expensive than the dual op-amps, so definitely the budget way to go. Adding the V5D's was an improvement over my AD823's, but again, it was slightly less dramatic than the V5S swap. The V5D's have the same sonic signature as their single op-amp stable mates and when you use them together you get more of the goodness I will describe below.  Think of it as a continuum, or a pendulum swing, and you will get the idea that using both sets of Burson's just gives you a little more of everything.  So what is that everything?  I'm going to boil it down and get right to the heart of the matter without making you wade through boring references to my test recordings and the repetitious comments that that format tends to produce.

The 797brz/823 combo in comparison 

This combination has been my favorite of all the conventional IC opamps I've tried.  To my ears, it excells in neutral frequency responsive, oustanding soundstage size, very focused imaging and a detailed, extended treble that is relatively grain and glare free.  When I switched back and forth with the Bursons, I was immediately struck by how this combo sounded somewhat compressed in the macro-dynamics. It just didn't hit as hard and was much less likely to startle me.  

The stage was just a little bit narrow and shallow in comparison. Not dramatically so, but enough to make me notice with each changeover.  

The treble seemed just a bit grainy and a small amount of vocal sibilance would poke through on the most difficult passages when played at louder volume. Cymbals sounded like their amalgam had more tin than brass and the natural sheen seemed to be curtailed.  

Midrange, particulary vocals and the more sonorous brass instruments sounded less full bodied and the images themselves took on a more ephemeral character because of it.  The lowest bass notes seemed like they were dialed back a few db.

This combo of op-amps only pales in the comparison. If I hadn't heard the Burson op-amps, I wouldn't have had any of these somewhat negative comments.  Ignorance would have been bliss and I would have remained more than satisfied with them.

The Burson V5D and V5S combo

From the comparative description above, you know where I'm going with this.  The Bursons hit hard when the music dishes up real dynamic energy and they don't miss any of the subtle gradations in the micro to macro dynamic spectrum.

The soundstaging is superb - wider, deeper and you are able to delineate the gradations of depth much easier than with the 797brz/823.  

Imaging is noticeably improved not only because of greater separation, but also because the spaces between the images are more black/silent than before.  

The very lowest bass notes are produced quite clearly with real authority. This "foundation" enhances everything upstream frequency-wise. The midrange sounds rich, full bodied with loads of texture.  That cymbal amalgam now has a whole lot more brass in it and the sheen and decay now sounds naturally glorious.  Come to think of it, I think everything in the midrange now sounds glorious. Brass is brassier, vocalists exude more chest register and the mighty Bosendorfer Concert Grand sounds so bell toned and, and....Bosendorfier.   

I can crank up the volume on those passages that used to make me wince and now I hear nary an offending  sibilant sound. There is excellent treble extension here that is liquid, and naturally grain free.

I have used the word "natural" quite a lot here and I think that is quite fitting for the Bursons.   These discrete bad boys just sound more like live music in a real acoustic space than any of the IC op-amps I've listened to.  They do their thing without significantly deviating from a flat frequency response.  Despite real meat on the midrange bones and an incredibly deep bass foundation, the vocalists and midrange instrumentalists aren't pushed forward in the stage.  They are just rock solid images right in the spot where they should be.  That's quite an impressive feat in my book.  

Swabbing is a lot of fun and the ultimate combination is going to depend upon your preferred personal "flavor" and of course the effects of your associated equipment.  For me, the Burson discrete op-amps are an endgame product that delivers exactly what I was looking for and in abundance.  In that regard, I find their  price/performance ratio to be more than acceptable. I'm just glad the stock H10 is so inexpensive and the Bursons don't cost twice as much as they do.  With the Bursons onboard, I now have a ~$500 amp that I'm quite sure will run circles around most anything under $1500.  

My thanks to Dennis and the boys at Burson. The Burson Supreme Sound V5's are Captain tested and Swabbie approved! 

 

[stuartmc]

 
Hello Captain, I trust this missive finds you in good health and spirits. Do tell, what did you replace the grills on your 560's with? This sounds like an interesting mod for me to attempt as I would appreciate any improvement that I could make to my 400i's. Also, how goes the listening tests with the Burson's? 

 
If you check the HE-560 modifications thread, you will find loads of pictures of the process and some suggestions on where to find the appropriate screen material to use. I found a wire mesh basket at Walmart that had a fairly open and light weight metal weave and I was able to trace the original grills and cut the material for an exact match.  I also found some very sheer black material at a fabric store that worked as a dust protecting grill cloth without restricting the sound in any way.  The stock grill and cloth is very dense in comparison. Take them off entirely and give the 560 a listen. You will be surprised by the difference and it will motivate you to do this simple mod.

 

[swannie007]

Ahh, my captain. Once again you come through with the goods, and, once again, it is going to cost me money! I think I shall start with the V5S's first and later on purchase the "whole enchilada" , or , more accurately, the "rest of the enchilada"! 
Thanks also for your info on the headphone mods. I think I shall defer the mods until I am safely ensconced in my new quarters in the USA in the new year. As of late I have been using one of my old favourites, the Beyer T90's, with my Gustard stack and the combination is superb, clear and resolving without any sibilance. I gave up using the T90's as they tended towards sibilance but with the latest mods to the H10 they have a lovely synergy with the Gustard stack and I look forward to further improvements with the Bursons. Greetings and salutations from "The Bosun in The Bush".    

 

[swannie007]

Ok, done. Ordered the V5S's. Now the wait starts.

 

[wwmhf]

My experience with other opamps in this H10 amp corroborates this observation of yours. 
 
Quote:

I found that the final gain stage with the single op-amps made the more pronounced improvements.  

 

[sling5s]

Anyone interested in a new Gustard H10 at $299 PM me.

 

[moriez]

Thanks stuartmc for laying out your impressions.
 
One question. You're saying: ''Despite real meat on the midrange bones and an incredibly deep bass foundation, the vocalists and midrange instrumentalists aren't pushed forward in the stage.''
 
Don't you mean backward in the stage? If not, please explain.
 
I'm still on the fence about going for the red chips but I'm closer than a few days ago. Your point about H10/Burson value got me thinking. I still don't think the respective prices check out but while I rather comfortably previously spent €100 on just one set of good BH Crack tubes approaching around €300 in total by now I wouldn't on the V5 set. Why is that? I believe one of the tricky reasons is that the expensive red ones are inside the amp. Nothing visual to confirm the upgrade seems to be part of my hesitation. I don't know. The mind works in mysterious ways. I know mine does lol.
 
Another very surprising thing is like @olek let us know, I had a few moments this weekend where I seriously preferred the HD650 over from the H10 now with AD797's installed over the ''Cracked-out Speedball-5998 TungSol'd-on-RCA Cleartop''. Quite the pimp. I couldn't imagine that the H10 had it in him to make the Crack sound soft overall and blurry in the low end. In comparison switching to the Gustard reminded me of stretching an elastic band. Substantially tightened and textured without giving up any of the sweet HD650 flavour with plenty, more evidently sparkle up top.
 
Very interesting to say the least and made/makes me question the need of the Bottlehead Crack

 

[jerick70]

OK 'mates. I've completed my testing with the Bursons and have had the chance to go back and forth a few times between the Bursons and the 797BRZ/ AD823 combo. I'm pretty confident in what my ears tell me with my particular setup. As you will recall, my "gestalt" experience with both sets of Burson op-amps installed (V5S and V5D) was VERY favorable. What I had said before was:   the words that first came to mind were "natural," "holistic, ""holographic" with effortless extension at the frequency extremes and "weight" - a superb bass floor and real meat on the midrange bones.  Now that I have listened to my favorite tracks for  analyzing soundstage, dynamics, treble, midrange and bass, I can state rather empatically that my gestalt impressions were spot on.    

Let me take care of a little housekeeping first and tell you that just like with my other swabbing forays, I found that the final gain stage with the single op-amps made the more pronounced improvements.  If you are on a tight budget, I would recommend getting the V5S's first. They are less expensive then the dual op-amps, so definitely the budget way to go. Adding the V5D's was an improvement over my AD823's, but again, it was slightly less dramatic than the V5S swap. The V5D's have the same sonic signature as their single op-amp stable mates and when you use them together you get more of the goodness I will describe below.  Think of it as a continuum, or a pendulum swing, and you will get the idea that using both sets of Burson's just gives you a little more of everything.  So what is that everything?  I'm going to boil it down and get right to the heart of the matter without making you wade through boring references to my test recordings and the repetitious comments that that format tends to produce.

The 797brz/823 combo in comparison 

This combination has been my favorite of all the conventional IC opamps I've tried.  To my ears, it excells in neutral frequency responsive, oustanding soundstage size, very focused imaging and a detailed, extended treble that is relatively grain and glare free.  When I switched back and forth with the Bursons, I was immediately struck by how this combo sounded somewhat compressed in the macro-dynamics. It just didn't hit as hard and was much less likely to startle me.  

The stage was just a little bit narrow and shallow in comparison. Not dramatically so, but enough to make me notice with each changeover.  

The treble seemed just a bit grainy and a small amount of vocal sibilance would poke through on the most difficult passages when played at louder volume. Cymbals sounded like their amalgam had more tin than brass and the natural sheen seemed to be curtailed.  

Midrange, particulary vocals and the more sonorous brass instruments sounded less full bodied and the images themselves took on a more ephemeral character because of it.  The lowest bass notes seemed like they were dialed back a few db.

This combo of op-amps only pales in the comparison. If I hadn't heard the Burson op-amps, I wouldn't have had any of these somewhat negative comments.  Ignorance would have been bliss and I would have remained more than satisfied with them.

The Burson V5D and V5S combo

From the comparative description above, you know where I'm going with this.  The Bursons hit hard when the music dishes up real dynamic energy and they don't miss any of the subtle gradations in the micro to macro dynamic spectrum.

The soundstaging is superb - wider, deeper and you are able to delineate the gradations of depth much easier than with the 797brz/823.  

Imaging is noticeably improved not only because of greater separation, but also because the spaces between the images are more black/silent than before.  

The very lowest bass notes are produced quite clearly with real authority. This "foundation" enhances everything upstream frequency-wise. The midrange sounds rich, full bodied with loads of texture.  That cymbal amalgam now has a whole lot more brass in it and the sheen and decay now sounds naturally glorious.  Come to think of it, I think everything in the midrange now sounds glorious. Brass is brassier, vocalists exude more chest register and the mighty Bosendorfer Concert Grand sounds so bell toned and, and....Bosendorfier. 

 

I can crank up the volume on those passages that used to make me wince and now I hear nary an offending  sibilant sound. There is excellent treble extension here that is liquid, and naturally grain free.

I have used the word "natural" quite a lot here and I think that is quite fitting for the Bursons.   These discrete bad boys just sound more like live music in a real acoustic space than any of the IC op-amps I've listened to.  They do there thing without significantly deviating from a flat frequency response.  Despite real meat on the midrange bones and an incredibly deep bass foundation, the vocalists and midrange instrumentalists aren't pushed forward in the stage.  They are just rock solid images right in the spot where they should be.  That's quite an impressive feat in my book.  

Swabbing is a lot of fun and the ultimate combination is going to depend upon your preferred personal "flavor" and of course the effects of your associated equipment.  For me, the Burson discrete op-amps are an endgame product that delivers exactly what I was looking for and in abundance.  In that regard, I find their  price/performance ratio to be more than acceptable. I'm just glad the stock H10 is so inexpensive and the Bursons don't cost twice as much as they do.  With the Bursons onboard, I now have a ~$500 amp that I'm quite sure will run circles around most anything under $1500.  

My thanks to Dennis and the boys at Burson. The Burson Supreme Sound V5's are Captain tested and Swabbie approved! 

Excellent impressions.  Thank you for sharing!

 

[rdnkjdi]

If you were buying either the Gustard H10 or the Audeze Deckard for a pre fazor LCD-3 (with the possibility of some day getting the hifiman he1000) which would you go with?

 

[Kozic]

So I just put in a set of ad797brz on a adapter board if I put it backwards would it work and or be harmful?
Edit; well it seems to be working fine so hopefully they are in right.